[DocOfTheDead]

If you’re looking for a fun tuner car, a base Mustang GT is a great value. You can pretty easily get a new manual V8 in the high $30k range. I cross shopped a manual GT before getting my M4.

[NotSharocks]

I considered moving my Supra for a GT350R. Drove one and it felt way to boaty.

Considered the DH because warranty, but again same issue.

Hoped the G87 would take the best of the F87 and run with it.

Yea.

[ChrisM4]

Originally Posted by stark_c

I honestly don’t think normal people cross shop mustang with M cars. Either you do German or you do American muscle.

I do…I looked at the ZL1 Camaro, C8s, Mustangs, Caddy V, Porsche and BMW. I didn’t look at MB as I thought they feel dead driving and the Audi RS3 while having a nice engine I couldn’t get into styling wise.

[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

The same can be, and often is, said about the BMW community. Hell, a good segment of the Porsche community started with BMW’s. lol! I do agree the BMW ///M guys drive their cars more, but an ///M is also more useable for daily driving. I drove all of my ///M’s daily. My 992 is an “every once in awhile” adventure, but what an adventure it is.

Unfortunately, I think many "enthusiast" groups are now like this. The C8 Corvette owners are some of the worst. I've been on Corvette Forum for almost 25 years, GM puts the engine behind the seats and all of a sudden owners act as if they own a Ferrari

Tbh, it makes me embarrassed sometimes to own a Corvette. I've also received random "BMW owners are d!cks" comments out of nowhere when I say I own an M2. I've just stopped going to car shows or cars & coffee because the general attitude of most is one of "my car is better than yours" instead of just admiring all cars.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by JABCAT

Unfortunately, I think many "enthusiast" groups are now like this. The C8 Corvette owners are some of the worst. I've been on Corvette Forum for almost 25 years, GM puts the engine behind the seats and all of a sudden owners act as if they own a Ferrari

Tbh, it makes me embarrassed sometimes to own a Corvette. I've also received random "BMW owners are d!cks" comments out of nowhere when I say I own an M2. I've just stopped going to car shows or cars & coffee because the general attitude of most is one of "my car is better than yours" instead of just admiring all cars.

The C7 was a beautiful car, like most of the Corvette generations that came before it. I owned a C5 back in 98-00.

The C8 is an incredible value to performance at $80k with the Z51 pack (prices have come down, and I’ve even seen discounts up to $5500)… but no manual transmission (a travesty) and the looks are just … not for me.

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

The C7 was a beautiful car, like most of the Corvette generations that came before it. I owned a C5 back in 98-00.

The C8 is an incredible value to performance at $80k with the Z51 pack (prices have come down, and I’ve even seen discounts up to $5500)… but no manual transmission (a travesty) and the looks are just … not for me.

Agreed.

The discounts on the C8 Z51 make it harder for the Mustang DH Premium with HP and Recaros to compete in that segment.

Ford needs to get the pricing of the DH Premium with HP and Recaros down to $50-55k to undercut both the G87 M2 and C8 Z51.

[MiamiFan13]

Originally Posted by ScottyRyan2019

Coming from a 2022 Mustang GT Premium 10sp tuned on E85 I will try compare the two and this is simply my opinion.
My Mustang was approx 450 HP to the wheel tuned on E85 (which you can do to a Gen 3 with no supporting mods) so the wheel HP is comparable. My butt dyno says the M2 is quicker especially from a roll.

I'm going to say that your butt dyno is wrong. From a roll....THAT is the one area where your GT should have came out ahead....especially with a 10spd auto and 450rwhp.

[ScottyRyan2019]

Originally Posted by MiamiFan13

I'm going to say that your butt dyno is wrong. From a roll....THAT is the one area where your GT should have came out ahead....especially with a 10spd auto and 450rwhp.

Well my son has an E85 tuned 2016 with long tubes and I can beat him from a roll, although not by a lot.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

The C7 was a beautiful car, like most of the Corvette generations that came before it. I owned a C5 back in 98-00.

The C8 is an incredible value to performance at $80k with the Z51 pack (prices have come down, and I’ve even seen discounts up to $5500)… but no manual transmission (a travesty) and the looks are just … not for me.

I really do like the C7 as well.

[RemoWilliams84]

Originally Posted by stark_c

I honestly don’t think normal people cross shop mustang with M cars. Either you do German or you do American muscle.

I went from a Bullitt to an M2.

[Smilodon]

Originally Posted by stark_c

I honestly don’t think normal people cross shop mustang with M cars. Either you do German or you do American muscle.

I might be a weirdo, but you can put me in that list.

Try looking for a practical performance car with a manual transmission and you get a pretty short list.

It came down to Mustang values dropping off a cliff as the next "special" one comes out, and being treated no different (and getting no better expertise) than the guy with the Fusion at the Ford dealer (repairs, service, etc.). For the same price or more.

Also, I had a favorable experience with my BMW motorcycle, which contributed as well.

While happy with my choice, I don't think having a dark horse would suck either.

[MADBMWX5MC]

Originally Posted by stark_c

I honestly don’t think normal people cross shop mustang with M cars. Either you do German or you do American muscle.

Is not that I am not normal, I just can't decide, so I do both....

Ok, fine, I am not normal...

[ChrisM4]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

The C7 was a beautiful car, like most of the Corvette generations that came before it. I owned a C5 back in 98-00.

I had a 99 C5 that was awesome. (Magnesium wheels, put a Z06 Titanium catback on it. Was amazing for autoX and lapping.

I had it less than 6 months before we found out my wife was pregnant with our first. And that was that for the C5 😆

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by ChrisM4

I had a 99 C5 that was awesome. (Magnesium wheels, put a Z06 Titanium catback on it. Was amazing for autoX and lapping.

I had it less than 6 months before we found out my wife was pregnant with our first. And that was that for the C5 😆

Such a great car. I had the 6MT with Z51 with the see through roof.

[Fastfwd]

I haven't read through the entire thread, but I'm not surprised at all to see the comparison. I also came from an S550 Mustang.

Mine was mostly stock. Performance Pack 1 with Magneride and 10sp auto. Sticker was around $53k. I got mine for like $46k, but I had to go to Boise to get that deal. I loved the Magneride. It made it feel special. It didn't ride so incredibly stiff as the test ride I took in another Performance Pack 1 S550. The exhaust had incredible range from quiet mode to track mode. Track mode exhaust was insane. Brakes were amazing. I'm glad to hear they maybe did some work on the 10sp for the S650. It needed it.

I would interject that I think some people read articles like these and get the wrong impression. If you haven't actually cross shopped and configured both cars to your taste. Say, as if you would spec one out to order. You might not realize some of the criticisms noted in articles like these don't necessarily apply to these vehicles optioned differently.

The carbon package seats on the M2 for example. Lots of people might read one article like this and possibly not fully realize that those are optional seats. The regular seats are very nice, etc.

The tram-lining of the Dark Horse I suspect is specific to that 'Handling Package.' I gather that Ford hasn't been too eager to allow tests of the Dark Horse without those super sticky Pirelli tires though. It makes for a somewhat more apples to apples comparison with the G87 Carbon Package I suppose.

The pricing on the S650 Mustangs does still start pretty low btw. If you just want a base model with the 4 cylinder turbo (they're still in the 300hp range I believe).

I was initially looking hard at the S650. I tried to option one out to be like my S550 and it was getting to base price G87 territory. At the time I was optioning them out they weren't offering the staggered 255/275 setup that my PP1 S550 had. I eventually squared my S550 up to 275 all around with PS4s. So, that turned me off. Supply chain issues or what idk.

I would have to have opted for the Dark Horse without handling package to get the same staggered setup. Those were getting pretty stiff ADM markups last year. Now, it's getting into pretty well optioned BMW territory in price (even without ADM). In the end I didn't like the Dark Horse interior being limited to having that Ford Blue theme for one thing.

It's not really fair to compare the new generation G87 to the older S550 gen Mustang. Even if the S650 is basically a refresh of the S550 the price is significantly more for the G87 (vs S550), but it's really a different class of vehicle imo. You do get a lot of performance for the money with those older S550 Mustangs.

I love my G87. The German car solidity is not to be ignored. It rides like it was forged from a block of aircraft grade alloy vs more like the actual stamped steel they're both made of. I'm frankly shocked the adaptive dampers on the G87 compare so favorably to the Magneride on the S550. I think overall the G87 rides nicer when combined with that stiffness of the chassis. The G87 interior is incredible by comparison too. It's not fair to compare the technology.

So far, there isn't anything that the S550 actually did better from a performance perspective. No surprise there I'm sure, but it might be surprising that even the S550 did so well. The sound of the V8 was pretty amazing, but probably considered obnoxious by some people I'm sure. The G87 seems to benefit marginally from the slightly shorter overall length in the tighter twisties imo. I love having the option to have a hand in the traction control with the BMW 'M' Traction Control. They both do well on the highway in their respective 'quiet modes.'

[SexyRoger]

Originally Posted by stark_c

I honestly don’t think normal people cross shop mustang with M cars. Either you do German or you do American muscle.

mustang is called a rustang for a reason. It's an insult to any german car to be compared to american muscle cars.

Comparison to a Kia or one of the Kia sport models would be mora appropriate for a mustang to go against.

I actually feel offended.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by SexyRoger

mustang is called a rustang for a reason. It's an insult to any german car to be compared to american muscle cars.

Comparison to a Kia or one of the Kia sport models would be mora appropriate for a mustang to go against.

I actually feel offended.

From a driving and fun perspective there isn’t much in it between the two cars. From a car enthusiast perspective who wants a good track car, brand doesn’t matter. “My brand is better than yours” car meets is where you will find lots of car snobs masquerading as car enthusiasts.

We have everything from 20 year old Honda Civics to classic Lamborghinis and million dollar plus track cars in our track day club. Incomes from below average wage to multi millionaires with significant car and aircraft collections.

With both our track cars broken last year, my son and I drove an old Toyota Echo with slicks and major camber, it was as fast around the corners as the ///M cars, just slow everywhere where acceleration was required. We called it “The Backup Car” a-la Grand Tour and Top Gear.

My road legal track car has a 2 litre 4-cylinder Ford engine, but there is nothing that BMW makes for sale to the public that will keep up with it on any normal road course when the vehicles are driven by the same driver.

[fcman]

Originally Posted by SexyRoger

mustang is called a rustang for a reason. It's an insult to any german car to be compared to american muscle cars.

Comparison to a Kia or one of the Kia sport models would be mora appropriate for a mustang to go against.

I actually feel offended.

Yikes, sometimes I forget that BMW often attracts people who just pretend to be car enthusiasts

[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by fcman

Yikes, sometimes I forget that BMW often attracts people who just pretend to be car enthusiasts

Like many other brands. Why one can't simply say "I don't like Mustangs on insert car model here", I don't know.

I really liked Mustangs as a kid. Really wanted a fox-body GT or Cobra. Ended up with a '94 GT brand new. Had lots of issues in the 9 months I owned it, and the dealerships were typically poor like nearly all American brand dealerships. I got rid of it & in the next 40+ vehicles, never owned another Mustang or Ford product.

I have zero interest in Mustangs, but I can still appreciate them for what they are. They also have one of the best V8 sounds on the planet.

[wjones14]

Originally Posted by JABCAT

Like many other brands. Why one can't simply say "I don't like Mustangs on insert car model here", I don't know.

I really liked Mustangs as a kid. Really wanted a fox-body GT or Cobra. Ended up with a '94 GT brand new. Had lots of issues in the 9 months I owned it, and the dealerships were typically poor like nearly all American brand dealerships. I got rid of it & in the next 40+ vehicles, never owned another Mustang or Ford product.

I have zero interest in Mustangs, but I can still appreciate them for what they are. They also have one of the best V8 sounds on the planet.

I had a '95 GT. Last year for the 5.0 until it came back 15 years later.
Owned it for 7 years with just a few minor issues before trading it for a new '05 GT. Owned the 2005 Mustang for 10 years. Not a single issue, ever. Learned how to do HPDE track days with it and did 7 of them.

Since then, I bought an M235i, Camaro 2SS 1LE, and now the F87 M2, with a deposit on a 2025 G87.

I loved both the '05 Mustang and the '18 1LE, and now am into BMWs. But I would never bad mouth the Mustang or Camaro. Too much fun and bang for the buck. And exhaust note to die for. The '05 Mustang was $25K brand new. The Camaro was $50K loaded (heated/ventilated Recaros, heated wheel, HUD, Bose, blind spot monitor, adaptive dampers, Brembos) and laid down faster lap times than I can get with my F87.

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by jas165

What are the three slashes before the ‘M’ supposed to denote?

[WWM3]

The Mustang GT350 is one of the most exciting cars I've ever driven. Not a DD, but an amazing weekend/track car. I'd take it over either of the cars in this comparison and would love to own one some day.