[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

I think “many” may be too strong of a word. I’ve read an awful lot of forum members say they drive like grannies. I must say it’s hard for me to grasp why people spend more money on a BMW than a Prius and then drive their BMW like it’s a Prius.

You've answered why BMW as a brand is where it is now.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

It's absolutely an intelligence thing. You have to be a grade A dumbass to not wear one. Period.

You can say "I know someone mesna level smart who doesn't" but guess what they're not as smart as you, or they think, because they CLEARLY don't understand physics or statistics.

That said, I think we should make it illegal to wear seatbelts. We need more people who are smart enough to think critically and less morons. This would be probably the most effective Darwin weed out thing we could do. Said law would obviously never be enforced, it's just there to give the mouth breathers an excuse to get themselves out of the gene pool.

Motorcycles.... ?

Just curious for zx10 and me... not a flame.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

You've answered why BMW as a brand is where it is now.

Wham! right squarely on the nail's head.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Motorcycles.... ?

Just curious for zx10 and me... not a flame.

Motorcyclists should be banned from wearing leathers or helmets or sunglasses. Full raw dog mode only. Not at all enforced as a law of course, but just a way to speed up evolution.

You mean if motorcyclists understand physics? Some of them do. Some of them have god complexes. Pretty easy to tell the difference.

[jzeiler4]

The number one cause of death in a vehicle in Alabama is the single car accident where they left the road and hit a pole, tree, or ditch and were NOT wearing a seat belt. I see it every night in the news.

I started automatically wearing a seat belt when I got my 1959 MGA roadster in 1965, it was the only way I could stay behind the wheel the way I drove it. After I joined the Navy in 1969 I was involved in two accidents (wearing a seat belt) within a month of each other as a passenger in vehicle and I know I would not be here now after the second one had I not had a belt on, as he slid off the road and hit a tree on my side just forward of the A pillar. Now 60 years later I feel naked without it.

I'll also add that I have never been in an accident as a driver all those years... until two weeks ago when I failed to see the deer running in the shadows. She got me.

[noemon]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

I think “many” may be too strong of a word. I’ve read an awful lot of forum members say they drive like grannies. I must say it’s hard for me to grasp why people spend more money on a BMW than a Prius and then drive their BMW like it’s a Prius.

Since I am one of these guys, allow me to clarify. Can't speak for others but I think this is probably a general vibe for some people.

I drive like a grannie indeed when dailying the car. Because there is simply no point, the speed limit is 20mph in Cambridge before it was 30mph. To make matters worse, the roads are very badly damaged having to navigate potholes plus there is no such thing as 2 lanes in the UK(outside motorways as all the former 2 lane roads have become 1 lane for cars and the other for cyclists/buses/taxis even the dual-carriage roads) and to make matters even worse, the other drivers on the street are actual grannies.

It's not like you have much option commuting around. So why struggle and drive in perma road-rage? Just chill and go with the flow.

On the motorways I let it rip a bit but again they are dangerous motorways and hence track time being the only place where you actually let it rip.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Motorcyclists should be banned from wearing leathers or helmets or sunglasses. Full raw dog mode only. Not at all enforced as a law of course, but just a way to speed up evolution.

You mean if motorcyclists understand physics? Some of them do. Some of them have good complexes. Pretty easy to tell the difference.

I was hoping for a serious answer.

[KevinC]

I had a gf in the late '80s who absolutely refused to wear a seat belt. The hilarious thing about it was the levels of copium she'd spew if I tried to call her out on it. She'd cite the rare instance where someone actually survived some kind of accident because being ejected from the car was better than to have been strapped in. I would counter that those were rare circumstances and the evidence was overwhelming that seat belt save lives and lessen severe injuries. She'd have none of it. Why not just say "I don't want to wear one" and be done with it? Better yet, put the damn thing on. Sheesh.

Last I heard, she was on husband #4 (or already divorced from him lol). Dodged a bullet there.

[Windshieldfarmer]

The costs of not wearing a seatbelt extends way beyond the people unnecessarily injured or killed. There is tremendous societal cost in terms of elevated medical expenditures, life insurance payouts, and disability costs. All of us pay more because of the stupid and often selfish decisions of others.

[Slowphiveo]

You can't fix stupid. Personally, I don't care what anyone does in the privacy of their own car. People have the data, facts, figures and consequences laid out for them. If they still choose to make a conscious decision not to wear a seat belt then it's on them. If they have family that loves them, then they are displaying their absolute disregard for the emotional well being of their family. Its the height of selfishness. If they have no family...then no one cares. I do wholeheartedly agree that decisions should have consequences and that if you choose to not wear a seat belt, it should be a disqualifier for insurance coverage of your medical care. The rest of us should not have to pay for your idiocy. Otherwise, it's a free country and you should be free to have the option to die or be permanently disabled in an otherwise survivable traffic accident, if you want to be.

[Slowphiveo]

Originally Posted by nerdogray

The amount of elitism displayed over seatbelts in this thread is absolutely laughable. I don't wear a seatbelt. I don't want to wear one. I don't have family. There is no one depending on me. There is no "societal cost" in my case. No matter how many soapboxes are mounted, I'm not going to be shamed into wearing one. It is my choice to assume the risk versus the freedom and comfort of not wearing one. No, I'm not obese; I am currently sitting at 14% body fat. I'm not unintelligent, either. But by all means, everyone should keep trying to force their opinion on those that choose differently.

Edit: There we go again. Yet another post insulting intelligence. How novel.

If you are referring to my post...that is my opinion. I dont know or care about your level of intelligence. Rock on with your bad non-seatbelt wearing self. It has zero effect on anyone apparently because you (in your own words) have no one depending on you or that apparently cares about you. I'm all for personal freedom and believe that is paramount. That being said when your personal freedom effects me, then I have an issue. If your preventable medical costs increase my insurance rates...then, yes I have a problem with that. If you sign a waiver and become a vegetable for the rest of your life then I'm OK with that. Have a blast.

[Slowphiveo]

Originally Posted by nerdogray

You certainly do make the claim to know intelligence by insulting it. You and so many other people on this thread speak so condescendingly and elevate themselves far above their reality. Your claims of the belief of personal freedom are immediately contradicted by your own statement. You have a blast, too. I'm done with you, the likes of you, and the rest of this thread.

Buh bye.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by nerdogray

You certainly do make the claim to know intelligence by insulting it. You and so many other people on this thread speak so condescendingly and elevate themselves far above their reality. Your claims of the belief of personal freedom are immediately contradicted by your own statement. You have a blast, too. I'm done with you, the likes of you, and the rest of this thread.

That's probably for the best. You likely can't understand the concepts of how not wearing a seatbelt is likely to make you into a corpse anyways.

People who don't wear salt belts are selfish, stupid, and shouldn't be allowed to drive. They fail to understand how being a human missile might affect someone else who had to clean up their mess, has to watch them die, or just happens to see it or be affected by it. In a case like this, they're gonna have to shut down a lot of traffic for quite some time. So now on top of being stupid and selfish, now after they've left the living, they're jerks making traffic for everyone else.

I wonder how many of these people staunchly.oppoaed to wearing their seatbelt have the same attitude when pulled over. I bet they immediately turn into sniveling cretins saying that they just took it off after getting pulled over.

[BMthusiast]

Of course I wear a seatbelt. My mom would be furious with me if I didn't.

[Gemini562]

Choosing not to wear a seatbelt is like deciding to walk around in a lightning storm wearing a metal hat and then acting shocked when people suggest it might not be the brightest idea. You say there’s no societal cost, but have you ever seen what happens in an accident? Emergency responders, doctors, nurses, the whole healthcare brigade will have to deal with the aftermath. And believe me, they’ve got enough to do without scooping up the results of your “freedom of choice.”

Plus, think about it like this: if you’re a human cannonball who forgot to strap in, your flying self could hit another person, or you could create such a road mess that traffic’s backed up for miles. It’s not elitism; it’s just common sense. Seatbelts are kinda like paying taxes or keeping your pants on in public, nobody loves it, but it keeps things decent for everyone.

[Raimo5]

How many people that don't wear a seatbelt actually live in a jurisdiction that don't require it? It can only be a choice if it is not mandated by law. Any other scenario you would be breaking the law, and it is completely normal for your peers to be condescending towards this attitude.

Stop acting like it is all about your freedoms and choice and understand that living in a society comes with responsibilities as well. Disregarding these responsibilities is just like saying "I am better than you, I don't care, I do what I want". What kind of response does one expect to this kind of behavior?

[KevinGS]

Originally Posted by Gemini562

Plus, think about it like this: if you’re a human cannonball who forgot to strap in, your flying self could hit another person, or you could create such a road mess that traffic’s backed up for miles. It’s not elitism; it’s just common sense. Seatbelts are kinda like paying taxes or keeping your pants on in public, nobody loves it, but it keeps things decent for everyone.

I'm a little more basic.

I told my friend who didn't want to wear a seatbelt to sprint as fast as possible and run head-first into a brick wall. Think about how much that would hurt.

Now, imagine quadrupling that speed or more, and hitting a brick wall...then think about the kind of head injury you would have at THAT speed.

Yikes!

[toosrimpeldoos]

Hi, I wear belts always in every car.
not only for my own safety, also being an example for my kids.

[KevinC]

Originally Posted by nerdogray

The amount of elitism displayed over seatbelts in this thread is absolutely laughable. I don't wear a seatbelt. I don't want to wear one.

"Elitism"

Oh the irony.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by nerdogray

You certainly do make the claim to know intelligence by insulting it. You and so many other people on this thread speak so condescendingly and elevate themselves far above their reality. Your claims of the belief of personal freedom are immediately contradicted by your own statement. You have a blast, too. I'm done with you, the likes of you, and the rest of this thread.

So, nerdogray, I’ll unapologetically question your intelligence. All the reasoning you give for setting yourself up to become a burden on society, whether you have anyone depending on you or not, is straight up STUPID!!

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Windshieldfarmer

The costs of not wearing a seatbelt extends way beyond the people unnecessarily injured or killed. There is tremendous societal cost in terms of elevated medical expenditures, life insurance payouts, and disability costs. All of us pay more because of the stupid and often selfish decisions of others.

The same argument can be made for airbags depending on crash severity.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by nerdogray

The amount of elitism displayed over seatbelts in this thread is absolutely laughable. I don't wear a seatbelt. I don't want to wear one. I don't have family. There is no one depending on me. There is no "societal cost" in my case. No matter how many soapboxes are mounted, I'm not going to be shamed into wearing one. It is my choice to assume the risk versus the freedom and comfort of not wearing one. No, I'm not obese; I am currently sitting at 14% body fat. I'm not unintelligent, either. But by all means, everyone should keep trying to force their opinion on those that choose differently.

Edit: There we go again. Yet another post insulting intelligence. How novel.

My position is if you are an adult, you have a right to choose what to do with you body as you see fit. I think your observation of elitism on display in this thread is well founded. The argument against your posts are the "societal costs of others not wearing a seat belt".
Well, let's expand on that. Where does the line of societal protectionism end and individual rights begin?

How about those who smoke or vape?
How about those who overeat?
How about those who eat fast food?
Drink soda?
Drink alcohol?
Take illegal drugs?
Rock climb?
Hike and get lost?
Drive in inclement weather when they lack the skill to do so or don't use the proper equipment ( i.e. snow tires)?
Ride motorcycles?

All these limited list of activities, when they go bad and affect a person's health, have a societal and insurance rates impact. Where is the line drawn?