[kyleb350]

Fixed.

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

•M1, M2, M7, M10
M1 is the future 2 seater mid-engine halo car.
Protective: Some brands have tried to use M trademarks.
M2 is the guise given to the future M variant of the 2er Coupe.
M7 might become a possibility.

[tony20009]

Originally Posted by ryyster

Very nice. Would really like to see a M7!

Me too. I think that's what everybody should have: a $225K 2.5 ton luxo-cruiser that'll do 0-60 in less than 3 seconds...LOL

[tony20009]

Originally Posted by mshab356

...Call it whatever you like, but put yourself in my shoes...wouldn't you be at least a little bothered by the dilution factor of the car you drive?...

Well, no, not really. I might worry about my cocktail becoming diluted, but not my car. Did you buy it because few other folks have it or did you buy it because it's the car you wanted? I think if one wanted something that was unlikely to be diluted and that few other folks have, Berkshire-Hathaway stock is a better choice, which I imagine you can afford as you spent quite a lot on a car.

[Pentium]

wow, lots of M everywhere!

[kmarei]

Originally Posted by tony20009

Well, no, not really. I might worry about my cocktail becoming diluted, but not my car. Did you buy it because few other folks have it or did you buy it because it's the car you wanted? I think if one wanted something that was unlikely to be diluted and that few other folks have, Berkshire-Hathaway stock is a better choice, which I imagine you can afford as you spent quite a lot on a car.

It's not as much about it being diluted as value
I pay a lot more for an M3 than a 335, because a lot of parts are custom made of the M3
The difference right now is about $15,000
If most of those parts are available on the future 335
Why should I pay the premium?
Especially since the performance difference between the 335 and M3 is getting smaller and smaller
Now they want to have 2 models between the 335 and M3?
I could just as easily get the entry level 335m or m335 or whatever the heck they decide to call it, and since it's turbocharged, like the M3
Give it a nice tune, and be up there with the M3 for a lot less money

I like the M, but I'm no fool for it
I won't just be paying the M tax when I can get 95% of the performance for a lot less money

Notice how porsche always limits what the boxster/cayman can do
So as not to step on the toes of the 911
Otherwise why would I pay $100,000 for a 911, when I can get similar performance in a 50,000 boxster?

[itzryyster]

Originally Posted by tony20009

Me too. I think that's what everybody should have: a $225K 2.5 ton luxo-cruiser that'll do 0-60 in less than 3 seconds...LOL

Exactly! haha. Plus I think BMW needs one to compete with the S63/S65 benzos...

[Technic]

Originally Posted by kmarei

It's not as much about it being diluted as value
I pay a lot more for an M3 than a 335, because a lot of parts are custom made of the M3
The difference right now is about $15,000
If most of those parts are available on the future 335
Why should I pay the premium?
Especially since the performance difference between the 335 and M3 is getting smaller and smaller
Now they want to have 2 models between the 335 and M3?
I could just as easily get the entry level 335m or m335 or whatever the heck they decide to call it, and since it's turbocharged, like the M3
Give it a nice tune, and be up there with the M3 for a lot less money

I like the M, but I'm no fool for it
I won't just be paying the M tax when I can get 95% of the performance for a lot less money

Notice how porsche always limits what the boxster/cayman can do
So as not to step on the toes of the 911
Otherwise why would I pay $100,000 for a 911, when I can get similar performance in a 50,000 boxster?

Exactly.

See VW example with the GTI and the R32. It used to be two very distinctive performance models, until VW dropped the 2.0T in the GTI in 2006. That distinctive performance was gone and with it the reason to buy the R32. Any GTI with a $500 APR tune was blowing away the R32. By the time the second-gen R32 showed up in 2008 the demand was so weak that the limited, one-year run of 5000 unit took several years to be sold at up to $7000 discounts.

BMW tried to make the 335i somehow performance-limited vs the M3 but with a few tweaks the 335i can provide pretty much the same accelaration as an M3 up to triple digits... but still the M3 is a different vehicle altogether by virtue of the so many parts that are not shared that gives the M3 an edge in handling and overall character. The GTI and the R32 -much more in the latest generation- are almost identical with the exception of the R32 4WD.

I'm no corporate drone so all this "M-edification" of the brand should have a business purpose somewhere -whatever it is. Hopefully they will not dillute the brand to the level of just another fancy sticker in the trunk.

[IS3andME]

Originally Posted by jerrypon83

I really hope that M7 is just something BMW wants to protect themselves. I mean, to prevent the other car companies to make a car and call it M7 and confused other people. 7 series is just too big for the M badge. 7 stands for luxury, not joy or the Ultimate Driving Machine.
I am also surprised that BMW didnt own the M1 trademark. Weird...

Yeah, like they don't want in on the action the MB has with the S63 AMG and S65 AMG...
S is lux, the 7 has always been the sportier of the two in standard guise and the old E38 7 series V12 couldn't handle the S Class (W220) V12s...

[zzzmmm]

M3.5 RR S1 with performance package stickers aka GTSR

and upgraded piped in engine sound is an extra 2k

[lawgone]

Originally Posted by Blubaron79

I'm guessing they might just be trade marking it just to have it, but still may have not made up their minds yet..

My fear is they will use the 4 series to make the 3 coupe a lot more expensive like the Audi did with the A5...

+1...although I fear the price bump will be much more than the diff from A4 to A5.

[mshab356]

Originally Posted by tony20009

Well, no, not really. I might worry about my cocktail becoming diluted, but not my car. Did you buy it because few other folks have it or did you buy it because it's the car you wanted? I think if one wanted something that was unlikely to be diluted and that few other folks have, Berkshire-Hathaway stock is a better choice, which I imagine you can afford as you spent quite a lot on a car.

I bought the car because I wanted it. But I am still very slightly bothered by this idea of adding an M to almost every model they have. It doesn't make me like my car any less, or BMW as a whole any less, but it is still something that just doesn't sit right for me. Maybe you're completely apathetic regarding this idea, but then again everybody is different.

[mshab356]

Originally Posted by kmarei

It's not as much about it being diluted as value
I pay a lot more for an M3 than a 335, because a lot of parts are custom made of the M3
The difference right now is about $15,000
If most of those parts are available on the future 335
Why should I pay the premium?
Especially since the performance difference between the 335 and M3 is getting smaller and smaller
Now they want to have 2 models between the 335 and M3?
I could just as easily get the entry level 335m or m335 or whatever the heck they decide to call it, and since it's turbocharged, like the M3
Give it a nice tune, and be up there with the M3 for a lot less money

I like the M, but I'm no fool for it
I won't just be paying the M tax when I can get 95% of the performance for a lot less money

Notice how porsche always limits what the boxster/cayman can do
So as not to step on the toes of the 911
Otherwise why would I pay $100,000 for a 911, when I can get similar performance in a 50,000 boxster?

EXACTLY! Thank you kmarei, you nailed it!

[kmarei]

Originally Posted by Technic

Exactly.

See VW example with the GTI and the R32. It used to be two very distinctive performance models, until VW dropped the 2.0T in the GTI in 2006. That distinctive performance was gone and with it the reason to buy the R32. Any GTI with a $500 APR tune was blowing away the R32. By the time the second-gen R32 showed up in 2008 the demand was so weak that the limited, one-year run of 5000 unit took several years to be sold at up to $7000 discounts.

BMW tried to make the 335i somehow performance-limited vs the M3 but with a few tweaks the 335i can provide pretty much the same accelaration as an M3 up to triple digits... but still the M3 is a different vehicle altogether by virtue of the so many parts that are not shared that gives the M3 an edge in handling and overall character. The GTI and the R32 -much more in the latest generation- are almost identical with the exception of the R32 4WD.

I'm no corporate drone so all this "M-edification" of the brand should have a business purpose somewhere -whatever it is. Hopefully they will not dillute the brand to the level of just another fancy sticker in the trunk.

I just had that same exact conversation with someone at work
He came to ask me should I get the GTi or should I spend more and get the R32
I said why would you pay an extra 10,000 for what is basically the same car
Get a GTi and a tune and call it a day

And now BMW want to have 3 M 3 series models?
So we'll have small m, then medium m, then M3

Wtf?

[bmrm396]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

I do not forsee the V8 being placed in a 4er or 3er for that matter also.
However BMW are looking at M Performance Automobiles for the lower end of the market mimicing the M550d and X5 and X6M50d with the 3er , X3 and upcoming X4 with a performance diesel concept based upon the diesel four cylinder.

Some of the titles are purely for future protection.
If you take eDrive for example this was the name Mercedes-Benz intended to use for the electric SLS AMG but BMW had already owned the trademark hence why it is now E-Cell.

•X2, X4
The name of the upcoming BMW X models. X4 is a four door Sport Activity Coupe in the sense of the larger X6.
X2 is not a smaller X4 in fact it is not a Coupe , mainly a lower roofed SAV and will be the first BMW SAV to make production as a 3dr and 5dr.
X2 will be RWD/AWD whilst the next generation X1 moves to the UKL FWD/AWD platform.

•M1, M2, M7, M10
Protective: Some brands have tried to use M trademarks.
M2 is the guise given to the future M variant of the 2er Coupe.
M7 might become a possibility.

•2 Series
The 2er will be BMW's designation for its entry Coupe that will replace the 1er coupe. The name not only conjours up nostaligia with the classic 2002. But leads the split of the BMW models into individual series.

•2 Series Active Tourer
Currently under deliberation in Munich, The 2er Active Tourer mixes a Sporthatch with a Touring. Think of the classic 1600/2002 Touring meeting a Hyundai Veloster - single rear door and all. But purely RWD and for a BMW another new niche to investigate.

•Compactive, Compactive Tourer, Gran Tourer, Urbanic
Some trademarks given to the smaller upcoming revolutionary FWD BMW family - City Compactive is the 3dr and 5dr Hatch, which will bring BMW style and driveability to the small car segment thanks to a combination of eye catching design, overall appeal and Front wheel driven dynamics. Compactive Tourer is the FWD BMW MPV that is currently in testing. Urbanic is a line within the FWD family.

Gran Tourer is BMW's term for potential Shooting Brake concepts which could spawn the BMW 6er , 4er and 2er Shooting Brakes.

•E1, E2, E3, E4, E5, E6, E7, E8, E9
Every BMW trademark is designated from 1-9. These could be potential electric variants of the current line to be sold along the regular line as a more accessable approach to electric mobility for those that cannot reach for the BMWi brand.

•i1, i2, i3, i4, i5, i6, i7, i8, i9The BMWi cars.

•Z8
Protective: Other manufacturers have tried to use Z8.

•GC, Gran Coupe, BMW Gran Coupe, 6er Gran CoupeDesignated to BMW's four door Coupe models namely the 6er and upcoming 4er.

•SportMode, CoolMode, Air Collar, BMW Turbotec, Drive eCharged, LifeDrive, i Pedelec
The first four describe forthcoming technology to be implemented into series cars.
BMWi is not just about the cars but also the solution to achieve sustainable mobility. BMWi is not just about getting to A-B in a car but other methods of transportion including cycling and walking.

•Corniche, Shadow, Wraith, Cloud, Dawn
Corniche is the name given to the Drophead Coupe variant of the Ghost.
A current Ghost has a waiting list of about twelve months , expect the Corniche to initially be higher

Hey Scott - how come you didnt address any of these? Be interested to get an idea whats goin on here ...

M35, M40, M55, M300, M350, M400, M500
M130, M135, M140, M230, M235, M240, M330, M335, M340, M430, M435, M440, M450, M550, M650, M750

[woo1]

I missed out on the 1 series M. When will we see the M2? Would love some info on that.

[tony20009]

For some reason my quote feature isn't working so:

Kamerai said:
It's not as much about it being diluted as value
I pay a lot more for an M3 than a 335, because a lot of parts are custom made of the M3
The difference right now is about $15,000
If most of those parts are available on the future 335
Why should I pay the premium?

My response:

I may be missing something, but to me this isn't a new business model.

You pay the premium because at the time you bought it, those parts weren't available except on the M3. It's the price one pays to be an early adopter and a buyer of something exclusive. And because when BMW initially implement said parts and technologies on the M3, they are exclusive to the M3, and with it's lower production volumes, more expensive. If and when BMW deploy them in the 335, it reduces the cost of making that 335 because those parts have been vetted by M3 owners and it shouldn't take that much more, if any, additional capital investment to expand the scope of implementing those parts/technologies in the higher volume, but in many ways similar, vehicles. When 335 buyers get them they are no longer exclusive, but then at that point, there'll be a new M3 with its own exclusive, new "stuff." Nobody, I suspect, promised you your car's "stuff" would remain forever exclusive.

Kamerai's comment continues:

...I could just as easily get the entry level 335m or m335 or whatever the heck they decide to call it, and since it's turbocharged, like the M3
Give it a nice tune, and be up there with the M3 for a lot less money

My reply:
Though I've never done it before, my sense it that it's really not "just as easy" to buy such and such car and give it a nice tune as it is to just buy a car the way it's offered from BMW. Even so, what you suggested sounds like a reasonable compromise. Why didn't you do that instead? Whatever your answer it, preface it with, "On the day I bought my car, ...." Whatever that reason is, it's at least partly why you willingly paid the M3 premium rather than do exactly as you suggested above.


Kamerai's comment continues:

I like the M, but I'm no fool for it
I won't just be paying the M tax when I can get 95% of the performance for a lot less money

My reply:
I can understand that. Many of us have come to that same conclusion. 95% of the performance for less than 95% of the cost is a fairly compelling value proposition to my way of thinking. Enough so that I wouldn't buy an M3, but I have other reasons, notwithstanding that value proposition, for not wanting an M3.

Kamerai's comment continues:

Notice how porsche always limits what the boxster/cayman can do
So as not to step on the toes of the 911
Otherwise why would I pay $100,000 for a 911, when I can get similar performance in a 50,000 boxster?

My reply:

??? I'm no Porsche expert, but isn't that exactly what one gets when one buys a Boxter or Cayman? Performance and styling "similar" to that of a 911? Granted, I would say the Cayman is more similar to a 911 than is a Boxter, at least visually.

I have only once driven a Cayman, but at that time, it felt and looked somewhat like, but not identical to, a 911. I was able to sense and see similarities and differences. Is that not what similar is? Does not the current 335 (we'll say coupe as the F30 sedan has just come out) feel like and look to some extent like an M3 coupe, yet not feel and look identical to an M3? I guess I'm not sure where you were going with the last part of your post.

That said, I think a better basis of comparison within Porsche's offerings, just to keep the degrees of difference within a given model line on par, would be a basic 911 vs one of those beefed up variations of the 911. Even so, aside from the fact that you just don't like that BMW opt to use formerly M3-only "stuff" in one or more upcoming lesser models, I don't see much basis for arguing that their doing so is a bad thing for anybody. Granted, I respect that you have the opinion you do; I just don't see the merit in your argument for it.

FWIW, I could attempt to make the same case regarding my PC (purchased two years ago), but I would have no more a meritorious case than I think you do, or don't have as it were. The day I bought it, it was the fastest, most bad-ass thing Falcon Northwest offered: the fastest chips, four of the fastest video cards one could buy, the fastest SSDs in a RAID 0 configuration, and a pair of the 2 GB hard drives. I expect in the not too distant future one can get all those parts on a $400 value PC. That's just the way it works, and that's OK. At the time I bought it, I paid the premium because I wanted the best, fastest, most powerful thing I could buy ON THAT DAY. I spent around $8500 on it when a typical, very good gaming PC could be had ( from Falcon or other vendors) for about half to two-thirds that price.

(And no, I don't let my kids so much as walk into the room that PC is in.)