[buildbright]

I bet you guys would get lapped by a Fiat in a corvette. You talk about those lap times like you ran them.

[spiike32]

I am actually highly considering the c7 as my next car. Serious enough to have already contacted dealers and contemplated paying a deposit. I'm very torn between the new cayman S priced at 73k with options or the c7 priced at 60k with options (2lt interior and z51 package). Gotta admit for the money and ease of modding... c7 really takes the cake.

[quagmire]

Originally Posted by spiike32

I am actually highly considering the c7 as my next car. Serious enough to have already contacted dealers and contemplated paying a deposit. I'm very torn between the new cayman S priced at 73k with options or the c7 priced at 60k with options (2lt interior and z51 package). Gotta admit for the money and ease of modding... c7 really takes the cake.

If you can afford it, go to the 3LT as that will give you the leather wrapped interior.

[TSM330i]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Did you get passed by a base C6 in your GT3 last time out at the track or something?

I think he got passed by a C6 in his e92/M3 and thought "If I only had a 991S I'd show him"

[majin ssj eric]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

Lol not at all...and coming from the guy who only likes to say derogatory things about Porsches in threads regarding Porsche's cars, LMFAO.

Just stating some facts since the article seems to think the two are somehow competitors.

I'd like to know exactly what is "factual" about saying that a 911S will obliterate the Corvette on a track? How exactly do you know that oh clairvoyant one?

[E90Flossin]

The stingray is such an amazing vehicle! The M branch has a lot to work on to pursuade theirs buyers...actually Porsche has some work to do...they have been resting too long

[MrClean335i]

MotorTrend

[F32]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

Just like how the cts v was supposed to own the m3 on track and got beaten by a 20 yr old kid in an m3 sedan and took a factory driver to beat that time.

Came across this while tooling on the internet, and remembered you mentioning the above. Just wanted to point it out to make you look dumb.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...o-2013-page-10

3:04.0 CADILLAC CTS-V SEDAN
3:04.2 CADILLAC CTS-V COUPE
3:05.4 BMW M3 COUPE

LOL

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by F32

Came across this while tooling on the internet, and remembered you mentioning the above. Just wanted to point it out to make you look dumb.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...o-2013-page-10

3:04.0 CADILLAC CTS-V SEDAN
3:04.2 CADILLAC CTS-V COUPE
3:05.4 BMW M3 COUPE

LOL

The only one who looks dumb is you. Hahahah hahahaha LMFAO!


http://www.bmwblog.com/2009/10/30/ca...n-lutzs-cts-v/

[CirrusSR22]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

The only one who looks dumb is you. Hahahah hahahaha LMFAO!


http://www.bmwblog.com/2009/10/30/ca...n-lutzs-cts-v/

You do know Bob Lutz is an elderly man - 77 years old at the time that test took place. If you look at the full results, a number of CTS-Vs still beat that kid in the M3. This was just a marketing campaign to beat the GM executive. Try again.

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by CirrusSR22

You do know Bob Lutz is an elderly man - 77 years old at the time that test took place. If you look at the full results, a number of CTS-Vs still beat that kid in the M3. This was just a marketing campaign to beat the GM executive. Try again.

Nope...you try again.

The only ones to best the kid were factory drivers from caddy. Imagine if bmw had a factory driver get out here in the m3.

Bob lutz said no m3 could best him...he has far more experience than that kid did.

Walter rohl is elderly too but could detroy any of us in a 458 with a boxster.

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

Nope...you try again.

The only ones to best the kid were factory drivers from caddy. Imagine if bmw had a factory driver get out here in the m3.

Bob lutz said no m3 could best him...he has far more experience than that kid did.

Walter rohl is elderly too but could detroy any of us in a 458 with a boxster.

So what are you saying the M3 is faster at any track? I own an M3 as well, I know this not to be true.

There are tracks where the CTS-V is quicker than the M3.

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by M3_WC

So what are you saying the M3 is faster at any track? I own an M3 as well, I know this not to be true.

There are tracks where the CTS-V is quicker than the M3.

What I was getting at was that track times VARY SIGNIFICANTLY by who is driving and on conditions.

Bob lutz guaranteed HE himself would be faster than an m3 in a cts V coupe yet was bested by a 20 yr old by 5 seconds on a sub 3 min lap (an eternity). It took caddy factory drivers to beat a 20 yr old in a car that was guaranteed to beat the m3. A factory driver in the m3 would have bested the cts v factory driver in all likelyhood given how fast an rank amateur was in the m3.

Again only saying lap times vary and none of us will come close to any of these times anyway.

[CirrusSR22]

Ok, I'll try again. Nurburgring times:

CTS-V (video confirmed): 7:59
E92 M3: 8:05
E46 M3 CSL: 7:50, but those come with DOT competition tires.

For comparison, the Corvette C6 Z06 did a 7:23 with very similar tires to the M3 CSL above - the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup

[M3_WC]

CTS-V should be faster around the ring, that is a power track.

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by CirrusSR22

Ok, I'll try again. Nurburgring times:

CTS-V (video confirmed): 7:59
E92 M3: 8:05
E46 M3 CSL: 7:50, but those come with DOT competition tires.

For comparison, the Corvette C6 Z06 did a 7:23 with very similar tires to the M3 CSL above - the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup

I understand what you're saying here and fair enough. The Ring favors better power to weight. Also see notes below.

And also, the GT2 RS ran 7:18 on those same pilot sport cups. Tires do make a difference. The 991S also ran 7:37. No other car with even remotely close to 400 hp has run a time like that. For instance, 458 Italia ran about the same but has 170 hp more.

Furthermore, if you want to compare apples to apples as much as possible you need to look at sport auto s super tests. Horst von saurma who is a very talented ex race driver does these tests. He has the same procedure for every car he drives in the Ring. When he drove the c6 z06, it ran 7:49. The 997.1 GT3 RS (415 hp) ran 7:48. So in an apples to apple comparo or as close as you'll get the Gt3 despite having close to 100 hp less was faster than the z06. Period.
And to go further, von saurma ran the 997.2 GT3 RS to a time of 7:33. Again same procedure and driver and it was 16 sec faster than the more powerful z06. That is a lifetime on that track.
Will it always be faster? Probably not as you couldn't say the same for the z06 but on the ring the 997 GT3 is the faster car using the same driver and procedure from von saurma and sport auto. It is the closest thing we have to eliminating the variables of driver, procedure etc.

Originally Posted by M3_WC

CTS-V should be faster around the ring, that is a power track.

Power to weight more so than just power is the determining factor. 991S again is much faster despite having 160 less hp. Also why the 991S is faster than the camaro zl1 despite being down nearly 200 hp.
Additionally, the m3 with comp pack and dct was never tested. Would be interesting to see its time since we all know there tends to be a significant advantage for this transmission.
The ring is a litmus test that shows a cars total worth so to speak. It's overall capabilities as far as performance and handling go. The new GT3 ran 7:25 on the ring. Pretty much all sub 7:30 cars are minimally 600 hp (not counting supposed times on slicks). Should be interesting to see this sport auto super test. Either way, with only 475 hp it will be among cars that have significantly more power yet it will match or best some of the highest hp street legal cars in the world. Sure says a lot about how well tuned the chassis and the suspension geometry are in addition to how well it puts down that power.

[CirrusSR22]

Now we're getting crazy.

2014 GT3 MSRP: $131,350
2014 C7 Corvette MSRP: $51,995

No one is denying the Porsches are fast, the argument is that for barely $50,000 the C7 is amazing.

[buildbright]

The CTS-V can pull some awesome track times until the tires start to get greasy, the read diff over heats, the engine starts to heat soak, and the brakes start to fade.

This is not to knock the CTS-V it can handle like a sports car but at its weight and engine setup you better off with a Corvette or M3 for track duty. It's the same as someone buying a M5 to track.

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by buildbright

The CTS-V can pull some awesome track times until the tires start to get greasy, the read diff over heats, the engine starts to heat soak, and the brakes start to fade.

This is not to knock the CTS-V it can handle like a sports car but at its weight and engine setup you better off with a Corvette or M3 for track duty. It's the same as someone buying a M5 to track.

Because essentially the CTS-V sedan is a E60 M5 competitor. They almost identical in dimensions.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

I understand what you're saying here and fair enough. The Ring favors better power to weight. Also see notes below.

And also, the GT2 RS ran 7:18 on those same pilot sport cups. Tires do make a difference. The 991S also ran 7:37. No other car with even remotely close to 400 hp has run a time like that. For instance, 458 Italia ran about the same but has 170 hp more.

Furthermore, if you want to compare apples to apples as much as possible you need to look at sport auto s super tests. Horst von saurma who is a very talented ex race driver does these tests. He has the same procedure for every car he drives in the Ring. When he drove the c6 z06, it ran 7:49. The 997.1 GT3 RS (415 hp) ran 7:48. So in an apples to apple comparo or as close as you'll get the Gt3 despite having close to 100 hp less was faster than the z06. Period.
And to go further, von saurma ran the 997.2 GT3 RS to a time of 7:33. Again same procedure and driver and it was 16 sec faster than the more powerful z06. That is a lifetime on that track.
Will it always be faster? Probably not as you couldn't say the same for the z06 but on the ring the 997 GT3 is the faster car using the same driver and procedure from von saurma and sport auto. It is the closest thing we have to eliminating the variables of driver, procedure etc.



Power to weight more so than just power is the determining factor. 991S again is much faster despite having 160 less hp. Also why the 991S is faster than the camaro zl1 despite being down nearly 200 hp.
Additionally, the m3 with comp pack and dct was never tested. Would be interesting to see its time since we all know there tends to be a significant advantage for this transmission.
The ring is a litmus test that shows a cars total worth so to speak. It's overall capabilities as far as performance and handling go. The new GT3 ran 7:25 on the ring. Pretty much all sub 7:30 cars are minimally 600 hp (not counting supposed times on slicks). Should be interesting to see this sport auto super test. Either way, with only 475 hp it will be among cars that have significantly more power yet it will match or best some of the highest hp street legal cars in the world. Sure says a lot about how well tuned the chassis and the suspension geometry are in addition to how well it puts down that power.

After all that work you forgot to mention the M3 GTS ring time. Fail.

[See5]

LOL at using track times for the base '06 C6 Z06 which is nowhere near the same level as the '12 Z06s with Cup tires, mag suspension and aero kit.

The '12 Z06 runs way quicker at Laguna Seca than any GT3 with Cup tires. That was the equalizing factor in earlier tests. GM wised up.

[chumley]

Assuming all the buzz is justified when you get in one and drive it -

Unless you absolutely must have a back seat for family or the occasional passenger, I can't imagine who would buy a 435 over one of these.