[Allerum]

Originally Posted by aerobod

The G8x manual transmission gearing is such that the redline will be hit before 320km/h / 200mph, there likely is not enough power in any model to reach that speed anyway. The 280km/h speed limiter is good for 6th gear beyond the power peak, but just before the redline.

I'd rather have evenly spaced gears in a sporting car, not overdrive gears at the top. If the tyres spin on a grippy surface in 1st gear, it is low enough, if each subsequent gear is able to be at or above the torque peak when shifting up at the power peak, then the spacing is good. Looks to me like mission accomplished for the S58 matched with the GS6-53BZ.

Only one gear needs to give the optimum thrust at any given speed, one just has to have the right gear selected.

Then you have the issue currently being faced, you have a track only gearset that isn't as lively on the street. Simple solution is if someone puts in a higher final drive, but I would still space out 6th a bit more to drop the cruise rpm but leave 5th as the 1:1

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by Allerum

Then you have the issue currently being faced, you have a track only gearset that isn't as lively on the street. Simple solution is if someone puts in a higher final drive, but I would still space out 6th a bit more to drop the cruise rpm but leave 5th as the 1:1

I would say the opposite - it is a totally street compatible gear set that also works on the track. It just isn't for lazy people who don't want to bother using the right gear at the right time. Best for them to buy the automatic.

The gear ratio spread is 4.110 to 0.846 from 1st to 6th for an overall ratio difference of 4.89:1. That is far from a track ratio set. My Caterham has a ratio spread of 2.69 to 1.00 from 1st to 6th for an overall ratio difference of 2.69:1 and that is considered the combo road/track ratio set, the sequential 6-speed option that is more track focused is 2.40:1.

[Allerum]

Originally Posted by aerobod

I would say the opposite - it is a totally street compatible gear set that also works on the track. It just isn't for lazy people who don't want to bother using the right gear at the right time. Best for them to buy the automatic.

The gear ratio spread is 4.110 to 0.846 from 1st to 6th for an overall ratio difference of 4.89:1. That is far from a track ratio set. My Caterham has a ratio spread of 2.69 to 1.00 from 1st to 6th for an overall ratio difference of 2.69:1 and that is considered the combo road/track ratio set, the sequential 6-speed option that is more track focused is 2.40:1.

I don't think I would call it a street set still. You only get 2 shifts before jail time.

I will define a bit what I mean by street set for my ideal manual car, 1st around 45, 2nd should be 65 mph 3rd 90 mph 4th 120. This allows 4 shifts on the street then space 5th and 6th out to be the top speed gears and return a decent cruise rpm. This is what I would call a perfect street set.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by Allerum

I don't think I would call it a street set still. You only get 2 shifts before jail time.

I will define a bit what I mean by street set for my ideal manual car, 1st around 45, 2nd should be 65 mph 3rd 90 mph 4th 120. This allows 4 shifts on the street then space 5th and 6th out to be the top speed gears and return a decent cruise rpm. This is what I would call a perfect street set.

With the 285/30-20 PS4S tyres having 483 revs/km or 777 revs/mile, the current gearing gives:

63km/h (39mph) in 1st gear at 7,200RPM redline - 55km/h (34mph) at 6,250RPm peak power
112km/h (69mph) in 2nd gear - 97km/h (60mph) at 6,250RPM
168km/h (104mph) in 3rd gear - 146km/h (91mph) at 6,250RPM
219km/h (136mph) in 4th gear - 190km/h (118mph) at 6,250RPM
258km/h (161mph) in 5th gear - 224km/h (139mph) at 6,250RPM
285km/h (177mph) at 6,720RPM in 6th gear at the speed limiter

So your ideal 2nd and 3rd gear shift points are right around peak power, which is as good point to shift as any as long as the next gear keeps you at or above the max torque peak, which it does.

[Allerum]

Originally Posted by aerobod

With the 285/30-20 PS4S tyres having 483 revs/km or 777 revs/mile, the current gearing gives:

63km/h (39mph) in 1st gear at 7,200RPM redline - 55km/h (34mph) at 6,250RPm peak power
112km/h (69mph) in 2nd gear - 97km/h (60mph) at 6,250RPM
168km/h (104mph) in 3rd gear - 146km/h (91mph) at 6,250RPM
219km/h (136mph) in 4th gear - 190km/h (118mph) at 6,250RPM
258km/h (161mph) in 5th gear - 224km/h (139mph) at 6,250RPM
285km/h (177mph) at 6,720RPM in 6th gear at the speed limiter

So your ideal 2nd and 3rd gear shift points are right around peak power, which is as good point to shift as any as long as the next gear keeps you at or above the max torque peak, which it does.

With that ratios third and 4th is just a bit too tall for street fun. Especially so if tuned for the 7200 limit. It's not awful but based on all the reviews and owners comments just one more shift would be a bit more fun.

[zero21]

Originally Posted by aerobod

With the 285/30-20 PS4S tyres having 483 revs/km or 777 revs/mile, the current gearing gives:

63km/h (39mph) in 1st gear at 7,200RPM redline - 55km/h (34mph) at 6,250RPm peak power
112km/h (69mph) in 2nd gear - 97km/h (60mph) at 6,250RPM
168km/h (104mph) in 3rd gear - 146km/h (91mph) at 6,250RPM
219km/h (136mph) in 4th gear - 190km/h (118mph) at 6,250RPM
258km/h (161mph) in 5th gear - 224km/h (139mph) at 6,250RPM
285km/h (177mph) at 6,720RPM in 6th gear at the speed limiter

So your ideal 2nd and 3rd gear shift points are right around peak power, which is as good point to shift as any as long as the next gear keeps you at or above the max torque peak, which it does.

With 26.7in tires I get slightly different speeds. Excluding compression of course.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by zero21

With 26.7in tires I get slightly different speeds. Excluding compression of course.

I just took the Michelin spec of 777 revs per mile for the 285/30-20 PS4S. The static tyre diameter of 26.7” would correlate to 755 revs per mile due to lack of compression, that would be 3% larger than the 777 revs per mile, which is about the expected amount.

At very high speeds though (near V-max) the compression will generally decrease due to slight tyre standup due to centrifugal forces, but probably not enough to eliminate the 3% compression, I expect, especially with a radial tyre where the steel belts would need to elongate due to the induced strain.

[zero21]

Originally Posted by aerobod

I just took the Michelin spec of 777 revs per mile for the 285/30-20 PS4S. The static tyre diameter of 26.7” would correlate to 755 revs per mile due to lack of compression, that would be 3% larger than the 777 revs per mile, which is about the expected amount.

At very high speeds though (near V-max) the compression will generally decrease due to slight tyre standup due to centrifugal forces, but probably not enough to eliminate the 3% compression, I expect, especially with a radial tyre where the steel belts would need to elongate due to the induced strain.

That correlates to the 139 I got for 4th gear.

I actually prefer top speed in 5th, with 6th being a true overdrive. Only saying that for efficiency's sake

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by zero21

That correlates to the 139 I got for 4th gear.

I actually prefer top speed in 5th, with 6th being a true overdrive. Only saying that for efficiency's sake

Without the track pack the speed limiter is at 250km/h (155mph), which is reached in 5th gear at 6,980RPM.

[nachob]

Originally Posted by aaaaah

I still stand by my controversial opinion that the car would have been better with a tuned up B58 (ala OG M2) and then using those cost savings to put the car on a good diet. The reduced power and torque would reduce the need for significant bracing to the chassis as an immediate saving.

Not controversial to me sir, sounds brilliant to me. Especially the diet part.

[nachob]

Originally Posted by tracer bullet

I do feel the sentiment. I'm having to admit it isn't what I hoped - it's not something like a 1M of the past but instead more an M4 of the present day.

It's OK, it's still an I6 RWD available in a manual, I'll give it that. And even if not what I hoped for, it's obviously a nice car. And at 62k starters it's a heck of a deal as well. I'm still very interested, but instead of buying now I'll instead wait to find one at a dealer to actually test and see if it speaks to me or not.

I know that'll be a while until it happens. Until them I'm hoping the Z4 will indeed show up with a manual and perhaps be more what I'm looking for. Would love to cross shop and drive both on the same day. Right now that's just a dream.

Great point sir...It still is a manual and RWD... maybe BMW deserves some love and your wallet for that, but they still gotta be told, hey this is not cool, please do better. Next model will be 4500 lbs, electric and all wheel drive and we will look back at this and say...ok pudgy, but still manual.

[nachob]

Originally Posted by Carefree

Lost tons of fans? Well, US sales grew from 232,032 units in 2002 to over 346,023 in 2015. Almost every single year was a record year. It appears they’re gaining fans.

Yes, you are correct. Let me clarify a few points.

1. They lost tons of old school "ultimate driving machine" generation fans. I grudgingly bought a Cayman and the 718 forum is full of ex-bmw guys that have left.

2. The majority of that increase is in trucks with a BMW badge not sports cars. Go drive to a BMW dealer and see if you can count 10 cars on the lot

3. The 1M and M2 were a hit, a brilliant success because they went back to lighter, smaller, simpler cars than the M3/M4 so they WERE selling, but the issue is that now they are making the M2, the same size and weight as the M4 and probably the same weight as the previous M5. The V10 2010 M5 was porker at 4000 lbs with a V10 and 4 seats. This is one 5,10 200 lbs dude away from that with two doors and 4 less cylinders.

So yes, they are losing fans for these types of cars, even if replacing with super fast trucks.

[nachob]

Originally Posted by M_Power Rob

Considering all the people waiting in dealership lines to get the new M cars and M lights...they aren't gonna miss you.

Yeah, good one sir. Well played!

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by nachob

So yes, they are losing fans for these types of cars, even if replacing with super fast trucks.

Not really any different than the Porsche customer mix these days, though. The Cayenne and Macan are their most popular vehicles now accounting for 60% of sales in 2022, with the 4-cylinder Macan being the most popular version sold.

https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/2023...022-30886.html

[M_Power Rob]

Originally Posted by aerobod

Not really any different than the Porsche customer mix these days, though. The Cayenne and Macan are their most popular vehicles now accounting for 60% of sales in 2022, with the 4-cylinder Macan being the most popular version sold.

And they cant keep up for the demand, no mattwr what model....to the point they have put a stop to the PTS until 2024

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by M_Power Rob

And they cant keep up for the demand, no mattwr what model....to the point they have put a stop to the PTS until 2024

They have definitely grown, but are still only just over 300,000 vehicles per year compared with 2,100,000 for BMW more than Porsche and Audi combined.

[AndreM2]

I have F87 M2c and drive it on track. My seals have burnt out of my calipers. i have cracks in my PFC brake pads. I burn through tires like there is no tommorow. For fun on dry trackdays the F87 M2c is already far to heavy. I have also bought a 1270kg Toyota GR86. I did 1200km trackdays on 1 set of tires and brakepads.

The cost and handling of the GR86 on track is a dream. This is what weight does!

Weight is killing the fun and people at M Motorport division know that for sure. But as long as there are people like the Apple fanboys the Ooooooee en Aaaaaah generation who buy everything and believe what journalists say. There will be no change in direction.

Just drive and read experiences from people who use their cars on track and they all will tell you weight is killing all the fun.

But there is a flip side. If you like to use youre car daily and youre not into fun on cornering the weight is fine. You get a nice safe daily 2 seater car.

[ThesaVeliona]

Tonight on BIMMERPOST:

Doug Demuro views the XM as $160k controversial SAV.
Tonné of G8x M3/M4 builds pop up by majority members. I love the G80 M3 ones the most.
G87 M2 thread (this one in particular) is going bollocks. 53 pages, mark my words, we will hit 100 pages.

And I'm curious, what the f- is going to happen by the time we'll get G90 M5? Everyone will be talking about how bad it is, because it's a PHEV.

[AndreM2]

You have to accept bmw does not build cars which can be used on track. They are just to heavy for it.

They are nice daily sporty cars and BMW sell them a lot so most of the buyers do not care.

People who do care buy other brands.

Luckily i still have a E30 M3 DTM racecar and a 1M Coupe. New M cars does not interest me anymore. Only family cars from bmw like X3M or new X1 with 300 hp have my interest. For new fun cars you are better off buying A Cayman GT4, Supra Lighweight manual, Toyota GR86 etc.

[zero21]

Originally Posted by AndreM2

You have to accept bmw does not build cars which can be used on track. They are just to heavy for it.

They are nice daily sporty cars and BMW sell them a lot so most of the buyers do not care.

People who do care buy other brands.

Luckily i still have a E30 M3 DTM racecar and a 1M Coupe. New M cars does not interest me anymore. Only family cars from bmw like X3M or new X1 with 300 hp have my interest. For new fun cars you are better off buying A Cayman GT4, Supra Lighweight manual, Toyota GR86 etc.

This thread is for M2 reviews and discussion on them. Your posts are clearly not intended to be useful to the community who's committed to it, or enthusiastic about it.

Thanks.

[AndreM2]

If you watch all the youtube s most reviewers are saying that the car is more like a smaller M4.

And that is what is. You can t expect anymore from 1700 kg. Thats also what i am saying.

The car is perfect if youre in search for that.


Here is a nice youtube to see differences between a sporty car and more track orientated car.

[m2ss]

Correct me if I'm wrong but when the F87 came out was there this much controversy/polarization?