[RM7]

Originally Posted by Smooth_Operator

Far be it from me to be 'that guy,' but could it possibly be that ICE cars catch fire more often because there's way more of them out in the world

What part of "per 100,000" do people not understand?

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by RM7

What part of "per 100,000" do people not understand?

GTFO with your fake maths!!!

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by gblansten

According to data from the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB), electric vehicles (EVs) are less likely to catch fire than gasoline-powered or hybrid vehicles:
Vehicle type

Fires per 100,000 vehicles sold
Electric vehicle
25

Gasoline-powered vehicle
1,530

Hybrid vehicle
3,475

https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/enviro...less-fire-risk

Ok. The NTSB is a government investigative agency, says it's responsible for civil transportation accident investigation.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Ok. The NTSB is a government investigative agency, says it's responsible for civil transportation accident investigation.

Yes

[gblansten]

Thought this was interesting.

[SportySpice]

Weird. BMW says they sold over 362K cars in the US in 2023 and 332K in 2022.

https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/usa/a...-sales-results

[pbonsalb]

Maybe a certain price is used the define luxury vehicle?

[Stevenzoz]

After having EVs for 4 years, I loved the driving experience because they fit my driving style perfectly. However, with the flooding of cheap EVs, I don’t want to see how the infrastructure will handle the influx of idiots in their $200 Chevy EV leases and not know what they’re doing.

Unfortunately for me, I am extremely used to the power of an EV now and now have to spend a ton on a gas vehicle to get similar power. Ordered an M4 comp convertible. (I’ve also been trapped under fixed glass for 3 years so time to take it all off)

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Stevenzoz

After having EVs for 4 years, I loved the driving experience because they fit my driving style perfectly. However, with the flooding of cheap EVs, I don’t want to see how the infrastructure will handle the influx of idiots in their $200 Chevy EV leases and not know what they’re doing.

Unfortunately for me, I am extremely used to the power of an EV now and now have to spend a ton on a gas vehicle to get similar power. Ordered an M4 comp convertible. (I’ve also been trapped under fixed glass for 3 years so time to take it all off)

I have had one convertible in my life and I loved it. I wish I had the skin genetics to pull off even occasionally having one again and dropping the top down.

[kyriian]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Maybe a certain price is used the define luxury vehicle?

So Audi and Buick somehow ended up at similar numbers? Buicks most pricey car is the Enclave, and that gets you a mid range Audi Q5, not even a SQ5
I know Audi don’t shift many etrons , but they sell Q8 and Q7 like hot cakes

Chart is deeply flawed without any methodology on the study it is pointless, but it’s compiled by an instagrammer, it holds as much water as a colander

[pbonsalb]

It would not surprise me at all that Tesla’s gain in market share has been at the expense of other car makers.

[dreamingat30fps]

I have no idea if any of those sales numbers are right. However when I moved into my community there was 1 tesla and it was rare to see them on the street. Now I there are so many in the community I’ve lost count and they are everywhere on the street.

Now in NC it’s still rather rare although there are a couple I see constantly. The area we are in is not a wealthy area though. Once you go to the wealthier areas you see more although they seem to prefer rivians.

[M5Rick]

''There is nobody there to buy the 76% of fleet EV's when their 3 year lease is up''

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by gblansten

Thought this was interesting.

Lol at the idea of Tesla being a luxury brand.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

''There is nobody there to buy the 76% of fleet EV's when their 3 year lease is up''

The shit resale value of EVs will eventually work itself out. If they're cheap enough, people will buy them. Like if I could get a Taycan Cross Turismo Turbo S for like $50k, I'd accept the trade offs it has for price. But dealers are bringing them in for topuch money and then never sell them

Or well, in the case of the Taycan Porsche dealers won't even take them in on trade because they can't sell them.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

The shit resale value of EVs will eventually work itself out. If they're cheap enough, people will buy them. Like if I could get a Taycan Cross Turismo Turbo S for like $50k, I'd accept the trade offs it has for price. But dealers are bringing them in for topuch money and then never sell them

Or well, in the case of the Taycan Porsche dealers won't even take them in on trade because they can't sell them.

There is no way I would pay topuch money for a Taycan.

[pz619]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Lol at the idea of Tesla being a luxury brand.

It would be interesting to see what is the measure of a luxury vehicle. I'm on the side of Tesla isn't a luxury vehicle (I've owned 2) in terms of materials, fit and finish, etc. But in terms of features, it offers a lot, some of which BMW doesn't even offer. Granted not all of it works great, looking at you "full self driving".

I just call it "premium" which is just as nebulous of a term.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by pz619

It would be interesting to see what is the measure of a luxury vehicle. I'm on the side of Tesla isn't a luxury vehicle (I've owned 2) in terms of materials, fit and finish, etc. But in terms of features, it offers a lot, some of which BMW doesn't even offer. Granted not all of it works great, looking at you "full self driving".

I just call it "premium" which is just as nebulous of a term.

I think part of the issue is the interiors don’t have much “stuff”. The minimal stuff that is there I don’t personally find it any better or worse than a 3 series or equivalent.

Like the door panel materials don’t feel like a cheap chevy and I haven’t noticed any of the cheap plastics used in the economy cars etc. They use this “vegan” leather stuff but honestly… I’ve only had the white seats, not sure if black are different… but I find it very soft and nice. Waaaaay better than the pleather in my 128i, although admittedly that was a long time ago.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by pz619

It would be interesting to see what is the measure of a luxury vehicle. I'm on the side of Tesla isn't a luxury vehicle (I've owned 2) in terms of materials, fit and finish, etc. But in terms of features, it offers a lot, some of which BMW doesn't even offer. Granted not all of it works great, looking at you "full self driving".

I just call it "premium" which is just as nebulous of a term.

I don't see them offering anything you can't get in a Ford, Dodge, Chevy., or Kia. I'd consider it very much a mainstream brand.

That said, the gap between mainstream brands and luxury brands has shrunk massively since the 2000s. The differentiator in a lot of cases is powertrain, BMW and Mercedes and Audi and the like have offered turbocharged V8s with way more power than any mainstream competition except for the few lt4 and hellcat powered offerings. But when you go electrified, that goes away. So I think it's a hard sell on an luxury EV when a mainstream one is like, basically the same thing with basically the same powertrain

At some point, EVa will be basically the same underneath and manufacturers will be applying their interior and exterior designs and UIs.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

I think part of the issue is the interiors don’t have much “stuff”. The minimal stuff that is there I don’t personally find it any better or worse than a 3 series or equivalent.

Like the door panel materials don’t feel like a cheap chevy and I haven’t noticed any of the cheap plastics used in the economy cars etc. They use this “vegan” leather stuff but honestly… I’ve only had the white seats, not sure if black are different… but I find it very soft and nice. Waaaaay better than the pleather in my 128i, although admittedly that was a long time ago.

Some people need the flippy-switches of a Boeing 727 to make them think it's a "quality" interior. On the flip side, using touch-screens for everything can be annoying and not ergonomic. The ergonomic benefit of touch-screens is that they are extremely adaptable to different screens and GUI setups, but in cars where we want to change something without looking at it (like in an airplane), we need some tactile feel in many (but not all cases). So the point is it's a balance. I rented a 4-runner a few weekends ago which was a godsend compared to the Chevy equinox I totally killed trying to drive up to the mountains from Phoenix (had to tow it back)...but as far as tech and interface, it was like going a few decades back in time, whereas my Chevy ZR2 is a great balance of tactile for a few things that need it, like HVAC controls and volume for quick big adjusts. There is definitely a balance here where displays and graphical displays can be good and useful...but we also don't need a million little silver aluminum switches and dials to have a good interior. And lastly, I always detect a HUGE amount of bias from people and reviewers in european cars/cockpits. They will disregard/excuse the same issues in the european cars due to the history of giant differences over the years, but when the cars are mostly or exactly the same as far as interior, they'll cling to irrational notions of one car being better...when I sit in the same car I see the miles of plastic (audi, bmw, etc.). This is especially prevalent at the lower lines, like the reviewer in a 3-series or A4 seems to set the bar at 7-series or A6 for the competition, but I digress.

If the functionality is there, people won't care IMO. Comfortable seats, vents that work, controls that work, that is what matters. Whether there's a bunch of goat-balls-leather-inlaid knobs and diamond-encrusted trim is of importance to far less people.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

I think part of the issue is the interiors don’t have much “stuff”. The minimal stuff that is there I don’t personally find it any better or worse than a 3 series or equivalent.

Like the door panel materials don’t feel like a cheap chevy and I haven’t noticed any of the cheap plastics used in the economy cars etc. They use this “vegan” leather stuff but honestly… I’ve only had the white seats, not sure if black are different… but I find it very soft and nice. Waaaaay better than the pleather in my 128i, although admittedly that was a long time ago.

"Vegan leather" is just PU kestheric, synthetic leather, leatherette, or whatever branding you want to slap on plastic leather. It's come a long way recently too, the Mercedes and BMW fake leather are quite nice now. It's soft, supple, and has a fake grain to it now. Plus plasticizers have improved a lot so it doesn't get as hard as quickly as the old stuff did. But it still is plastic.

Also, the real issue is a car like the 3 series has no better materials than a regular ass Chevy or Ford now days. It's probably got worse materials than a nice jeep or dodge.

That said, Tesla's minimalist design just looks like cheap ikea to me. I get some people like it. But it looks really cheap to me.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by RM7

Some people need the flippy-switches of a Boeing 727 to make them think it's a "quality" interior. On the flip side, using touch-screens for everything can be annoying and not ergonomic. The ergonomic benefit of touch-screens is that they are extremely adaptable to different screens and GUI setups, but in cars where we want to change something without looking at it (like in an airplane), we need some tactile feel in many (but not all cases). So the point is it's a balance. I rented a 4-runner a few weekends ago which was a godsend compared to the Chevy equinox I totally killed trying to drive up to the mountains from Phoenix (had to tow it back)...but as far as tech and interface, it was like going a few decades back in time, whereas my Chevy ZR2 is a great balance of tactile for a few things that need it, like HVAC controls and volume for quick big adjusts. There is definitely a balance here where displays and graphical displays can be good and useful...but we also don't need a million little silver aluminum switches and dials to have a good interior. And lastly, I always detect a HUGE amount of bias from people and reviewers in european cars/cockpits. They will disregard/excuse the same issues in the european cars due to the history of giant differences over the years, but when the cars are mostly or exactly the same as far as interior, they'll cling to irrational notions of one car being better...when I sit in the same car I see the miles of plastic (audi, bmw, etc.). This is especially prevalent at the lower lines, like the reviewer in a 3-series or A4 seems to set the bar at 7-series or A6 for the competition, but I digress.

If the functionality is there, people won't care IMO. Comfortable seats, vents that work, controls that work, that is what matters. Whether there's a bunch of goat-balls-leather-inlaid knobs and diamond-encrusted trim is of importance to far less people.

I think it’s tough to find the balance. I recently test drove several EVs and honestly… some LOOKED really nice inside but were functionally horrible. Drove the Cadillac Lyric, honestly I think it looks great and the interior on the top trim also looked great… functionally I hated it so much, even my girlfriend that is less into tech than me hated it. Has like 3 different screens with menus and sub menus and some thing have to be done on one screens others on another screen, none of the screens are all that responsive. It was a relief to get back in the Tesla.

They also like to bring ICE stuff to the EVs like start button. Why? There’s nothing to start. Why do I still need a key fob in 2024? You have an app, but I still need a physical fob to get in. I drove a Mercedes that would do regen braking, which is good, but would then like artificially move the brake pedal down so when you want to brake more you would come to find the pedal was no longer where it should be.

Honestly I’m ok with either full on manual buttons for everything and fine with screen… it’s combining the two where it gets harder.

Originally Posted by BlkGS

"Vegan leather" is just PU kestheric, synthetic leather, leatherette, or whatever branding you want to slap on plastic leather. It's come a long way recently too, the Mercedes and BMW fake leather are quite nice now. It's soft, supple, and has a fake grain to it now. Plus plasticizers have improved a lot so it doesn't get as hard as quickly as the old stuff did. But it still is plastic.

Also, the real issue is a car like the 3 series has no better materials than a regular ass Chevy or Ford now days. It's probably got worse materials than a nice jeep or dodge.

That said, Tesla's minimalist design just looks like cheap ikea to me. I get some people like it. But it looks really cheap to me.

They can call it whatever they want I just think it’s pretty nice compared to the stuff BMW was using back in the day. Maybe they all have nice fake leather now.

American cars have come a long way in their interior quality and so have most cars I think. Unless you are talking like S class, 7 Series etc optioned out with full leather etc… most cars are pretty similar inside. I recently looked at some of the Genesis SUVs… that shit is nice inside. Maybe it’s plastic or recycled tires or whatever, I just know to me it looked nicer and more “luxurious” than some of the BMWs, Mercedes and Porsches I’ve seen. Honestly the Mercedes interiors were the most disappointing.

As for the minimalist Tesla interiors, that’s your opinion, however minimalist != cheap. Minimalist is just a style, like Ikea sells stuff that has that Scandinavian look. Ikea sells cheap furniture in that style, but I’m sure you can buy very pricy furniture in that same style but made out of actual wood etc.

While I did not like the Model 3 interior for a long time, having owned one for several years now it has grown on me. What I do definitely like is that it’s unique. When I’m in the Tesla I KNOW I’m in the Tesla. Vs other cars there all so similar. Same thing with the cybertruck. While I don’t personally find the design all that attractive… I’m glad someone is making some crazy shit. Maybe it will encourage other manufacturers to make other crazy shit that may be more my style.