[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by gblansten

As expected. You can't force the market.

Sure you can.

[TheWatchGuy]

as expected when EVs cost more to produce than ICE counterparts.

The only reason they tend to sell as "good" as they do, is because of incentives (manufacturer, tax, etc). A very small minority of EV buyers are doing it for environmental reasons.

If all the EV incentives go away, they will sit on lots and be a big money loser. They need to get the tech costs down significantly to compete.

[Davil]

He makes a good point. EVs make for great cheap small commuter cars. Perhaps that’s all they were really ever meant to be? If I had to commute I’d probably get one for that. I don’t though. So I just have fun cars.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Davil

He makes a good point. EVs make for great cheap small commuter cars. Perhaps that’s all they were really ever meant to be? If I had to commute I’d probably get one for that. I don’t though. So I just have fun cars.

Starting in late 2007, I had an 82-mile one way commute to my office (165 miles/day). In 2013 when my E90 racked up.230,000 miles I started looking to replace it ( at 250,000 miles). I looked at EV and hybrids. The original Model S at its lowest price point of $80,000 could possibly have made the commute round trip without charging in 3 seasons. Winter was dicey. And at any day it didn't leave much room for extra driving, like to a client/family meeting, or errands after work. At its transaction price, every comparable ICEV to comfortably commute in, like an Accord, Camry, Fusion, Malibu, etc. were much less expensive to use when looking at the lifecycle costs. For a 200,000 mile use case I figured out an EV would need to have an MSRP of $35K to $38K to be on parity with a decent ICEV, or gasoline would have to double in price to over $6/gallon.

In 2017 the Bolt and Model 3 debuted. The Model 3 was supposed to sell for $35,000 (it was more like $45K at intro) and the Bolt LE did come out at $38K. But again, for my commute, the range just didn't work for a 4-season car. If one has a max 120-mile use case in winter, or can charge at work, EV are great. Yet most everyone road trips in their car a few times a year over 500 miles, and that's where buyers stall on seeing EV as a viable alternative to ICEV (assuming they can charge at home). Having to rely 100% on public grid charging, most prospective buyers just say no. Recharging an ICEV in 5 minutes just works better. Simple as that.

I just don't see where the billions of electrical infrastructure is worth the trouble to swap the US fleet to EV. That is my issue with EV.

[ASAP]

Put in bs regulation time lines
Put in bs tax incentives
Open markets up to cheaper chinese EVs
Flood the market w EVs even tho everyone who wanted one already has one
Ice Business slows and economy falters

Who could have foreseen this?

[AmuroRay]

I like seeing EVs fail - I just hope everyone who bought one is stuck with it and unable to unload it.

Also, I think this is going to backfire. I have a strong suspicion that the governments are going to pull back on EVs, and then claim climate change has hit its climax and severely claim down on travel.

[3798j]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Put in bs regulation time lines
Put in bs tax incentives
Open markets up to cheaper chinese EVs
Flood the market w EVs even tho everyone who wanted one already has one
Ice Business slows and economy falters

Who could have foreseen this?

.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

I like seeing EVs fail - I just hope everyone who bought one is stuck with it and unable to unload it.

Also, I think this is going to backfire. I have a strong suspicion that the governments are going to pull back on EVs, and then claim climate change has hit its climax and severely claim down on travel.

i don't want to see anyone w an EV get hurt that way... i think they just fell for the propaganda...

what I would like to see is global car manufacturers jointly sue the governments of the EU for these regulations that have now cost $ in losses and created significant job losses and damage to their brands...

[FC4]

Originally Posted by Davil

He makes a good point. EVs make for great cheap small commuter cars. Perhaps that’s all they were really ever meant to be? If I had to commute I’d probably get one for that. I don’t though. So I just have fun cars.

As well as luxury cars. Zero NVH, effortless acceleration, no gears, and absolute silence is a game-changer for luxury cars. I had a Spectre for a week and it was serene, even compared to my Ghost.

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by FC4

As well as luxury cars. Zero NVH, effortless acceleration, no gears, and absolute silence is a game-changer for luxury cars. I had a Spectre for a week and it was serene, even compared to my Ghost.

As well as daily driver instant acceleration fun commuter cars.
A lot of "car guys" went out and got themselves Model 3 Performance cars for everyday fun and kept ICE track toys as track toys.

How else can one get a hold of a 0-60 in <3.0 seconds car for under $55K? Certainly not with any ICE bucket currently on the market!

YMMV,
a

[FC4]

Originally Posted by afadeev

As well as daily driver instant acceleration commuter cars.
A lot of "car guys" went out and got themselves Model 3 Performance cars for everyday fun and kept ICE track toys as track toys.

How else can one get a hold of a 0-60 in <3.0 seconds car for under $100K? Certainly not with any ICE bucket currently on the market!

YMMV,
a

Yep. I'm with it.

I personally love driving. Doesn't matter if it's a forklift, transit van, or a Cup car...operating a vehicle gives me joy. As such, I appreciate the vast array of driving experiences different machines offer. EVs simply deliver an entirely different driving experience unique in their own way. They're fantastic. That doesn't mean a GT3 isn't.

People who are vehemently anti-EV aren't true driving enthusiasts.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by FC4

Yep. I'm with it.

I personally love driving. Doesn't matter if it's a forklift, transit van, or a Cup car...operating a vehicle gives me joy. As such, I appreciate the vast array of driving experiences different machines offer. EVs simply deliver an entirely different driving experience unique in their own way. They're fantastic. That doesn't mean a GT3 isn't.

People who are vehemently anti-EV aren't true driving enthusiasts.

Similar here. I have loved the AMG I had and the four M cars. Loving an S Plaid. Different but fun.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by ASAP

i don't want to see anyone w an EV get hurt that way... i think they just fell for the propaganda...

what I would like to see is global car manufacturers jointly sue the governments of the EU for these regulations that have now cost $ in losses and created significant job losses and damage to their brands...

No, they should sue the REGULATORS THEMSELVES.

Using the governments just means the taxpayers have to pay. Sue the people who actually did it.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by FC4

People who are vehemently anti-EV aren't true driving enthusiasts.

Yes and no. They just aren't "the same" enthusiast as you. People are allowed to have their "thing". Maybe it's all about the 0-60 for them, maybe they're top speed people, or ground clearance or how much wood and cow is used in their car, or it having a specific kind of motor or transmission or body style or color... People are allowed to be different, and not everyone has to value the same things as everyone else.

This is like saying that if you're anti lifted truck you're not a driving enthusiast because those are the best at boulder crawling. Personally I couldn't care less about that, but it doesn't make my perspective or their perspective any less valid.

It's totally reasonable to not like the EV experience. They're digital, silent, and offer no real feedback. It's also reasonable to like it, because they're easy to drive, quiet, and insulate you from the road. People are different, and that's fine. I mean, hell, some people even like Miatas.

[TboneS54]

Originally Posted by FC4

People who are vehemently anti-EV aren't true driving enthusiasts.

Ah yes, if you don't like EMF and a souless experience, you're not a true enthusiast.

What a take.

[TargaM2]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Yes and no. They just aren't "the same" enthusiast as you. People are allowed to have their "thing". Maybe it's all about the 0-60 for them, maybe they're top speed people, or ground clearance or how much wood and cow is used in their car, or it having a specific kind of motor or transmission or body style or color... People are allowed to be different, and not everyone has to value the same things as everyone else.

This is like saying that if you're anti lifted truck you're not a driving enthusiast because those are the best at boulder crawling. Personally I couldn't care less about that, but it doesn't make my perspective or their perspective any less valid.

It's totally reasonable to not like the EV experience. They're digital, silent, and offer no real feedback. It's also reasonable to like it, because they're easy to drive, quiet, and insulate you from the road. People are different, and that's fine. I mean, hell, some people even like Miatas.

Well said 👍.

[FC4]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Yes and no. They just aren't "the same" enthusiast as you. People are allowed to have their "thing".

Agreed. It just sucks for people who have limited "things." What a miserable life.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Yes and no. They just aren't "the same" enthusiast as you. People are allowed to have their "thing". Maybe it's all about the 0-60 for them, maybe they're top speed people, or ground clearance or how much wood and cow is used in their car, or it having a specific kind of motor or transmission or body style or color... People are allowed to be different, and not everyone has to value the same things as everyone else.

This is like saying that if you're anti lifted truck you're not a driving enthusiast because those are the best at boulder crawling. Personally I couldn't care less about that, but it doesn't make my perspective or their perspective any less valid.

It's totally reasonable to not like the EV experience. They're digital, silent, and offer no real feedback. It's also reasonable to like it, because they're easy to drive, quiet, and insulate you from the road. People are different, and that's fine. I mean, hell, some people even like Miatas.

^ this ^

[Davil]

Originally Posted by afadeev

As well as daily driver instant acceleration fun commuter cars.
A lot of "car guys" went out and got themselves Model 3 Performance cars for everyday fun and kept ICE track toys as track toys.

Is going 0-60 really fast everyday fun?
I’m trying to remember the last time I did this.

[Davil]

Originally Posted by FC4

As well as luxury cars. Zero NVH, effortless acceleration, no gears, and absolute silence is a game-changer for luxury cars. I had a Spectre for a week and it was serene, even compared to my Ghost.

Possibly true but I can’t really say as I’m not interested in that.

[No one]

Originally Posted by FC4

It just sucks for people who have limited "things." What a miserable life.

Being unable to tell one thing from another is limited/miserable too. Liking everything is liking nothing indeed. It's all right if you like driving in it's "essence", but it's not so right if you like driving anything equally.

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Yes and no. They just aren't "the same" enthusiast as you. People are allowed to have their "thing"... People are allowed to be different, and not everyone has to value the same things as everyone else.

It's more than that.
Everyone is entitled to have their "thing" as long as they don't actively interfere with others' enjoyment of their "things".
That Golden Rule is lost on anti-EV zealots. And vegans.

I may not be into off-roading, funny cars, dirt racing, or low riders, but I appreciate a fellow car enthusiast's passion. Regardless of its outlet.

If someone goes out of his way to NOT reciprocate and spew vitriol towards other car nuts, I know they are NOT a car enthusiast.
They might be a lawsuit enthusiast, or oil industry enthusiast, or hate enthusiast, or sh*t posting enthusiast, but a car / driving enthusiasts they are not.

Or they are just undercover vegans looking for a new cause to hate!?


a