[robopp]

Originally Posted by WWM3

The Mustang GT350 is one of the most exciting cars I've ever driven. Not a DD, but an amazing weekend/track car. I'd take it over either of the cars in this comparison and would love to own one some day.

1000%. So sad Ford discontinued it. They had a winner aside from the oil consumption issues. That car is probably the most bang for the new buck you’ll ever be able to get.

[Bumpinjeep]

Originally Posted by DocOfTheDead

If you’re looking for a fun tuner car, a base Mustang GT is a great value. You can pretty easily get a new manual V8 in the high $30k range. I cross shopped a manual GT before getting my M4.

That would be dope actually. I bought my manual 350Z in 2007 for like $30K. So for less than $10K more, you get a V8, RWD, almost 500 HP coupe, that's a steal and a half for 2024.

[ScottyRyan2019]

Originally Posted by fcman

yikes, sometimes i forget that bmw often attracts people who just pretend to be car enthusiasts

👍👍👍

[ScottyRyan2019]

Originally Posted by WWM3

The Mustang GT350 is one of the most exciting cars I've ever driven. Not a DD, but an amazing weekend/track car. I'd take it over either of the cars in this comparison and would love to own one some day.

I had the pleasure to drive to the car show behind a GT350 and a twin turbo GT350 this past Saturday. I needed a cold shower after.

[DrewNewM2]

Originally Posted by robopp

1000%. So sad Ford discontinued it. They had a winner aside from the oil consumption issues. That car is probably the most bang for the new buck you’ll ever be able to get.

I almost bought a low mileage 2018 leadfoot gray with stripe delete after pandemic before used car prices skyrocketed. Salesman threw me the keys and I solo test drove it for an hour or so. I walked because they wouldn’t take my offer, but we were close, like $52k.

A year later that car would have been worth another $10k. I continued to look but didn’t want to pay the post pandemic surge prices and was always worried about the Voodoo engine failures. An amazing car…the sound, the high revs, barebones interior and very analog car. One complaint I had and the same as the M2 is the gearing is long and anything under triple digits is somewhat uneventful. I also don’t like the poor visibility out the back of the GT350/Mustang. M2 is much better.

[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by DrewNewM2

A year later that car would have been worth another $10k. I continued to look but didn’t want to pay the post pandemic surge prices and was always worried about the Voodoo engine failures. An amazing car…the sound, the high revs, barebones interior and very analog car.

i had a connection to an engineer within the ford org who told me when i was considering one that the voodoo was "held together by hopes, dreams, and loctite" and there was a lot of concern internally over the resonant frequency issue. YMMV obviously but even though it was amazing to drive, he scared me right off the ownership of one. i put a lot of miles on my cars so i was in the "ticking timebomb" camp which may or may not be valid. they sure sound and drive sweet though!

[Unforgiven300]

Originally Posted by stark_c

I honestly don’t think normal people cross shop mustang with M cars. Either you do German or you do American muscle.

I am one of those abnormal people. I own a 2011 Mustang GT and a 2023 G82. They provide different driving experiences,

However, I agree with the report on M2 vs Dark Horse.

[Unforgiven300]

Originally Posted by stark_c

I honestly don’t think normal people cross shop mustang with M cars. Either you do German or you do American muscle.

.

[Carefree]

Originally Posted by stark_c

I honestly don’t think normal people cross shop mustang with M cars. Either you do German or you do American muscle.

Disagree.

[edwinm3]

Originally Posted by aerobod

From a driving and fun perspective there isn’t much in it between the two cars. From a car enthusiast perspective who wants a good track car, brand doesn’t matter. “My brand is better than yours” car meets is where you will find lots of car snobs masquerading as car enthusiasts.

We have everything from 20 year old Honda Civics to classic Lamborghinis and million dollar plus track cars in our track day club. Incomes from below average wage to multi millionaires with significant car and aircraft collections.

With both our track cars broken last year, my son and I drove an old Toyota Echo with slicks and major camber, it was as fast around the corners as the ///M cars, just slow everywhere where acceleration was required. We called it “The Backup Car” a-la Grand Tour and Top Gear.

My road legal track car has a 2 litre 4-cylinder Ford engine, but there is nothing that BMW makes for sale to the public that will keep up with it on any normal road course when the vehicles are driven by the same driver.

love this, having fun regardless

[edwinm3]

Originally Posted by two_three_two

i had a connection to an engineer within the ford org who told me when i was considering one that the voodoo was "held together by hopes, dreams, and loctite" and there was a lot of concern internally over the resonant frequency issue. YMMV obviously but even though it was amazing to drive, he scared me right off the ownership of one. i put a lot of miles on my cars so i was in the "ticking timebomb" camp which may or may not be valid. they sure sound and drive sweet though!

a lot of bmw engines in the past were ticking bombs also, time will tell

[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by edwinm3

a lot of bmw engines in the past were ticking bombs also, time will tell

no denying this... also a reason this is my first BMW S58 seems solid so far but fingers crossed.

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by edwinm3

a lot of bmw engines in the past were ticking bombs also, time will tell

Originally Posted by two_three_two

no denying this... also a reason this is my first BMW S58 seems solid so far but fingers crossed.

The downside of the S58 is that a failed engine outside of warranty puts the entire vehicle at risk of being deemed a total loss.

https://parts.bmwnorthwest.com/a/BMW...e/11_8755.html
~$25,000 MSRP

https://parts.bmwnorthwest.com/a/BMW...d/11_8779.html
~$6,000 MSRP to replace both turbos

You're looking at $31,000 MSRP in parts not including labor.

[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by edwinm3

a lot of bmw engines in the past were ticking bombs also, time will tell

As a result of the engine itself or people modding the crap out of them?

[edwinm3]

Originally Posted by JABCAT

As a result of the engine itself or people modding the crap out of them?

actually both, some even developed some structural issues, like subframe cracks, e36/46

[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by Polo08816

The downside of the S58 is that a failed engine outside of warranty puts the entire vehicle at risk of being deemed a total loss.

https://parts.bmwnorthwest.com/a/BMW...e/11_8755.html
~$25,000 MSRP

https://parts.bmwnorthwest.com/a/BMW...d/11_8779.html
~$6,000 MSRP to replace both turbos

You're looking at $31,000 MSRP in parts not including labor.

you could probably say this about most modern performance vehicles (inb4 COYOTE!!!!!)

GR corolla owners are staring down a 32k bill as well when the motors inevitably go bust: https://www.thedrive.com/news/2023-t...-you-dont-want

im sure there are other examples as well... unfortunately i think this is just part of the game these days.

at least, from what i can tell, i have not yet seen a catastrophic failure not linked to the exposed downward facing intercooler yet- but if you do have an example of an S58 eating it some other way, i would be interested to see

[Hit_Apex]

Originally Posted by Polo08816

The downside of the S58 is that a failed engine outside of warranty puts the entire vehicle at risk of being deemed a total loss.

https://parts.bmwnorthwest.com/a/BMW...e/11_8755.html
~$25,000 MSRP

https://parts.bmwnorthwest.com/a/BMW...d/11_8779.html
~$6,000 MSRP to replace both turbos

You're looking at $31,000 MSRP in parts not including labor.

The aftermarket for the S58 is strong and still growing very fast. No one would go to the dealer for a replacement.
https://carbahn.com/product/cbs58-60...-m3-m3-c-m4-c/

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by Polo08816

The downside of the S58 is that a failed engine outside of warranty puts the entire vehicle at risk of being deemed a total loss.

https://parts.bmwnorthwest.com/a/BMW...e/11_8755.html
~$25,000 MSRP

https://parts.bmwnorthwest.com/a/BMW...d/11_8779.html
~$6,000 MSRP to replace both turbos

You're looking at $31,000 MSRP in parts not including labor.

Originally Posted by Hit_Apex

The aftermarket for the S58 is strong and still growing very fast. No one would go to the dealer for a replacement.
https://carbahn.com/product/cbs58-60...-m3-m3-c-m4-c/

... your example is not great because it requires a core in good condition. Your not getting a long block for that price.

Engine core acceptance parameters

Must be complete core (factory engine, from oil pan to valve cover)

Block must have no:
Holes or cracks in casting
Holes or crack in covers
Bore damage that cannot be honed out
Thrust surface damage
Journal surfaces damage
Bolt hole damage that can’t be repaired

Heads must have no:
Holes or cracks in casting
Holes or crack in covers
Thrust surface damage
Journal surfaces damage
Bolt hole damage that can’t be repaired

Additional repair charges could apply for damaged items that are not normally changed during an overhaul and cannot be repaired or serviced
Valves
Crankshafts
Camshafts
Guides
ValveTronic mechanism
Vanos mechanism

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by two_three_two

you could probably say this about most modern performance vehicles (inb4 COYOTE!!!!!)

GR corolla owners are staring down a 32k bill as well when the motors inevitably go bust: https://www.thedrive.com/news/2023-t...-you-dont-want

im sure there are other examples as well... unfortunately i think this is just part of the game these days.

at least, from what i can tell, i have not yet seen a catastrophic failure not linked to the exposed downward facing intercooler yet- but if you do have an example of an S58 eating it some other way, i would be interested to see

https://g87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=2069318

Collision damage to the downward facing engine oil cooler.

Final price without a working engine ~$2,313.
Final price with an engine that runs: ~$39,814.

[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by Polo08816

https://g87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=2069318

Collision damage to the downward facing engine oil cooler.

Final price without a working engine ~$2,313.
Final price with an engine that runs: ~$39,814.

thats what i was referencing. any example of failure of a stock motor NOT related to damage to this component would be news to me personally, but maybe you have more knowledge there.

and as stated... this is now unfortunately part and parcel to modern performance car ownership (corolla example re-linked in case you missed it: https://www.thedrive.com/news/2023-t...-you-dont-want)

[fcman]

Originally Posted by Polo08816

The downside of the S58 is that a failed engine outside of warranty puts the entire vehicle at risk of being deemed a total loss.

https://parts.bmwnorthwest.com/a/BMW...e/11_8755.html
~$25,000 MSRP

https://parts.bmwnorthwest.com/a/BMW...d/11_8779.html
~$6,000 MSRP to replace both turbos

You're looking at $31,000 MSRP in parts not including labor.

This is pretty much always the case with these cars though. I had a 135i with the N55 back when they were pretty new and replacement shorts were $20k+ back then too, and that was pre-pandemic. Just how it goes with newer models

[robopp]

Originally Posted by fcman

This is pretty much always the case with these cars though. I had a 135i with the N55 back when they were pretty new and replacement shorts were $20k+ back then too, and that was pre-pandemic. Just how it goes with newer models

S58 is going on 5 years now so it’s not exactly new.