[chris719]

Originally Posted by iifymbro

you're blipping the throttle to get the rpms up to ~equal where they'll be when the clutch is back to fully engaged though

Yes but that has nothing to do with the input shaft speed since the clutch is not engaged when you blip. The gears need to be synchronized still. Celestion has it right.

[iifymbro]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

The shifts themselves are pretty fast with ZF8, but there is a significant delay between the paddle action and the actual shift, especially when you are sequentially downshifting while braking into a corner. This is quite clear driving on a track. DCT on the other hand doesn't have this issue. More or less the same with 6MT.
You could come and lend me the ZF8 variant at NJMP Thunderbolt on May 25th. I'll film a short comparison video.

it's not a significant delay, it's very fast. Not quite DCT fast, but not far off and most definitely faster then a human can downshift a manual. There's different gearbox settings and it behaves quite different depending on which one you're in

[Dave07997S]

Simple answer: NO!!

[izzyM2]

4:45 for shifting sample
I wish I can do, lol, old vid and seem fast enough to me and you get all the happiness of manuals.

[Ilyam5]

These guys seem to think auto. Plus for 25 its getting more torque

[Angmar]

I commute in my m2 daily and I couldn’t imagine having it manual….If it wasn’t my daily though I def would’ve got the manual. If you do get the auto I would recommend the XHP trans tune. It gets rid of torque limiters especially noticeable when going 1-2 and 2-3 under heavy acceleration. Also brings the shift times to DCT level….im talking like no delay at all it’s pretty impressive.

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by chris719

This is simply false. Clutch is in while the throttle blip happens.

Still makes for a quick and crunch free shift.

Synchros are designed to well, synchronize the gear dog with the gear wheel.

Rev matching reduces the amount of work the synchros have to do.

Even without double clutching the synchros appear to handle this well.

With my M2 -- as with all my other manual equipped cars and even those without the rev matching feature -- the shifts happen quicker than if I double clutch.

[DrewNewM2]

Originally Posted by Angmar

I commute in my m2 daily and I couldn’t imagine having it manual….If it wasn’t my daily though I def would’ve got the manual. If you do get the auto I would recommend the XHP trans tune. It gets rid of torque limiters especially noticeable when going 1-2 and 2-3 under heavy acceleration. Also brings the shift times to DCT level….im talking like no delay at all it’s pretty impressive.

I’ve commuted from LI to Manhattan in an STi with a heavy aftermarket clutch. The M2 manual is a breeze in traffic.

[Bumpinjeep]

Simple answer is no, I wouldn't have bought it if it was auto only. Has the auto ever tempted me? No.
On track, the auto is a better option for me as I can concentrate on taking better lines and lowering my times. If I were to have a track only car, then it makes sense getting something I can shift using my hands but since I drive my car on the street, there's no way I'm giving up the art of driving for convenience.
I have a DCT in the wife's car, shifts fast, still doesn't hold a candle to a 6 speed.
Unless you physically can't shift (injury or something), get the manual.

[M2PDX]

Originally Posted by Ilyam5

These guys seem to think auto. Plus for 25 its getting more torque

Throttle House.....lol

Not much credibility around here. Go back to their initial review. They apparently don't understand the concept of downshifting in a manual transmission vehicle.

And now that thousands of us have actually taken delivery of our 6MTs, we see for ourselves.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

Still makes for a quick and crunch free shift.

Synchros are designed to well, synchronize the gear dog with the gear wheel.

Rev matching reduces the amount of work the synchros have to do.

Even without double clutching the synchros appear to handle this well.

They absolutely do not do this. Please learn how a manual gearbox and clutch works. I already explained this before in this thread. The blip happens when the engine is disconnected from the transmission.

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by chris719

They absolutely do not do this. Please learn how a manual gearbox and clutch works. I already explained this before in this thread. The blip happens when the engine is disconnected from the transmission.

And the blip speeds up the engine and the flywheel. It is similar to what one does by heel/toeing.

Heel/toeing was used rather than double clutching.

Double clutching was required pre-synchro mesh transmissions. Nice adapting a shifting technique required decades ago before synchro-mesh transmissions became the norm.

[fangelov]

Originally Posted by chris719

They absolutely do not do this. Please learn how a manual gearbox and clutch works. I already explained this before in this thread. The blip happens when the engine is disconnected from the transmission.

Not sure what the argument here is. The closer the flywheel speed and the transmission input shaft speed are, the less work the synchros have to do. Less work equals less wear and easier and faster gear engagement.

[KC87ZB]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

Still makes for a quick and crunch free shift.

Synchros are designed to well, synchronize the gear dog with the gear wheel.

Rev matching reduces the amount of work the synchros have to do.

Even without double clutching the synchros appear to handle this well.

With my M2 -- as with all my other manual equipped cars and even those without the rev matching feature -- the shifts happen quicker than if I double clutch.

This is false. The synchro work is done with the clutch disengaged and rev matching (whether electronic or by foot) has no impact to the synchronization from 1 gear to the next, even if double clutching. Rev matching has everything to do matching engine speed to the input shaft of the transmission.

[BroDoze]

We need millisecond upshift rev matching! It would fix the 1 -> 2 slam-shifts, lol.

[KC87ZB]

Originally Posted by BroDoze

We need millisecond upshift rev matching! It would fix the 1 -> 2 slam-shifts, lol.

I agree. Sadly we are waiting for the engine to slow down, which is an entirely different problem with a twin turbo 6. Rev hang is a real thing.

[BroDoze]

Originally Posted by KC87ZB

Rev hang is a real thing.

Sho is!

My '05 STi with light flywheel was a no-rev-hanging beast.

Between the awesome 6MT+SSK in that car and fast revs up n down, it was slam-shifting rockstar.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by BroDoze

Sho is!

My '05 STi with light flywheel was a no-rev-hanging beast.

Between the awesome 6MT+SSK in that car and fast revs up n down, it was slam-shifting rockstar.

Small capacity, naturally aspirated, light rotating assemblies and high rev limit are all factors for rapid rev change, unfortunately the S58 isn’t optimum for most of these factors.

A medium capacity motorcycle engine revving to 18,000RPM is close to the ultimate rev-happy device, though lacking in torque. I would say the 2.0 Duratec I have in my Caterham increases or decreases revs at twice the rate of the S58, having a 3.5kg flywheel, components to rev to 9,000RPM and 130bhp/litre naturally aspirated horsepower with reasonable torque at 260Nm, but all produced above 5500RPM, so you need to keep the engine between 5500 and over 8000RPM for it to work well.

[MPowerLUFC]

In UK manuals have been the norm until quite recently. Had manuals all my driving life. I can’t make the argument manuals are better from a performance point but from an enjoyment point of view I’m in the manual camp until it’s unavailable.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

And the blip speeds up the engine and the flywheel. It is similar to what one does by heel/toeing.

Heel/toeing was used rather than double clutching.

Double clutching was required pre-synchro mesh transmissions. Nice adapting a shifting technique required decades ago before synchro-mesh transmissions became the norm.

You have no idea what you're talking about. By the laws of physics you can't help the synchros function by blipping the throttle when the clutch is disengaged. The shift is made when the engine is not connected to the transmission

Heel / toe has nothing to do with double clutching also... heel/toe is a technique to brake and blip the throttle at the same time. Really, I'd stop digging this hole .

[chris719]

Originally Posted by BroDoze

We need millisecond upshift rev matching! It would fix the 1 -> 2 slam-shifts, lol.

Other than fixing any rev hang from software, you can't rev match an upshift though unfortunately because you're dragging down the engine speed not up.

[BroDoze]

Originally Posted by chris719

Other than fixing any rev hang from software, you can't rev match an upshift though unfortunately because you're dragging down the engine speed not up.

I know - was a joke.