[aerobod]

Originally Posted by ThreeStripes

275/30/19 or 275/35/18 is fairly common. But apparently changing things from factory is for idiots that like to ruin cars. I’ll make sure to spread the word in the paddock this weekend where it will be news to many.

A valid comparison would be stock vs stock or upgraded max size in both cases that fits without rubbing, using the same tyre model. As Jackie Ding has done, that is a 305/30-19 on a G87.

[Sherlock997]

Originally Posted by Lappy

I struggle to understand put the same tires on a f87 and the times will be faster than the g87 argument. You guys do realize that a 275/35/19 will NEVER fit on a f87 car correct? The G87 is heavier, it has wider wheels and more tire. It can also fit a lot more wheel and tire than the F87 platform. It's like they designed a new car or something.....

Lots of people have fit a 275 or even 285 square on an F87. Check out this fitment guide from Apex wheels of what they have tested and does fit.

Noticing a lot of people are debating tire sizes here and without getting too much into it there is a whole science behind fitting the most tire under a car you possibly can while maintaining a usable tire-to-rim width ratio. Here is a test TireRack did on the GR86 which comes with a 215 tire, you can read it here. As you can see the 225 and 245 on a 9" width wheel were considerably faster than the stock sizing.

[Lappy]

We are comparing the cars in the video correct. In this case its a m2cs or m2c, 18s will not fit without a different front brake kit. Regarding max front tire fitment, 275/30 will rub here and there, 265/35 will rub as well. I have a m2c currently and have been playing legos with wheels and tires to get the most under the car I can.

[ThreeStripes]

Originally Posted by Sherlock997

Noticing a lot of people are debating tire sizes here and without getting too much into it there is a whole science behind fitting the most tire under a car you possibly can while maintaining a usable tire-to-rim width ratio. Here is a test TireRack did on the GR86 which comes with a 215 tire, you can read it here. As you can see the 225 and 245 on a 9" width wheel were considerably faster than the stock sizing.

More testing demonstrating the benefit of more grip via more tire along with the importance of matching rim width to tire width.

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/ar...always-better/

Sounds like some folks in here would be really surprised to hear the lap times a 28yr old Miata or E36 with 460whp, wide rubber, and some aero will turn.

[VIERsr]

Originally Posted by aerobod

A valid comparison would be stock vs stock or upgraded max size in both cases that fits without rubbing, using the same tyre model. As Jackie Ding has done, that is a 305/30-19 on a G87.

Too complicated for someone to understand.
Without considering that the more playful character of the M2 F87 also comes from its (relatively) low grip, and increasing the footprint it loses this characteristic.
Without considering that by increasing the width of the traction tires so much, the original calibration of the LSD is not optimal (the CS/CSL/GTS calibration is in fact designed for the more grippy Cup2).
Without considering that by increasing the width of the tires so much, the steering geometry is not optimal and the car might result less agile (in fact, the steering calibration of the G8x is calibrated to the very wide front wheels).
Without considering that putting random tire sizes will unbalance the tire rolling difference between front and rear, which will affect the abs sensors, the ride height and consequently how the suspension works.
Without considering that one gives examples of a Bmw E30 and the other of an Honda CRX.
Without considering that those who drive a SUV cannot understand these things.

[ThreeStripes]

Maybe one crazy day in the future someone will add more power and grip to a BMW to test the wild theory that they improve lap times.

Alas, this remains nothing more than a pipe dream of those who can’t afford a G87 and are relegated to a life driving SUVs.

Perhaps it is all too complicated to understand anyways and this will all remain a mystery best explained by excellent “general setup” and “balancing of all the components.”

[AndreM2]

Bmw loves return customers.

I find it incredible that most people don’t criticize anymore. I have bought lots of BMW mostly M cars drove most of them on track. I raced BMW in different series. I own an 91 DTM E30 did some classic races with it.

I have a new x1 300hp on order i am still BMW enthusiast but i cannot and will not buy a 1700kg M2 which will be used as a weekend and track fun car. How on earth there are people say that a 1700kg car is awesome on track.

They say yeah the chassis is so good you don’t feel the weight. Who are those people? Have they ever driven other brands. Do they have racing experience?

I mean we are here discussing on a forum. We are not here to give everybody a klap on his shoulder who bought another new car.

Be critical otherwise you’re next M2 is as big as a 7 series and weighs 2500kg.

[Fugly M3]

Originally Posted by AndreM2

Bmw loves return customers.

I find it incredible that most people don’t criticize anymore. I have bought lots of BMW mostly M cars drove most of them on track. I raced BMW in different series. I own an 91 DTM E30 did some classic races with it.

I have a new x1 300hp on order i am still BMW enthusiast but i cannot and will not buy a 1700kg M2 which will be used as a weekend and track fun car. How on earth there are people say that a 1700kg car is awesome on track.

They say yeah the chassis is so good you don’t feel the weight. Who are those people? Have they ever driven other brands. Do they have racing experience?

I mean we are here discussing on a forum. We are not here to give everybody a klap on his shoulder who bought another new car.

Be critical otherwise you’re next M2 is as big as a 7 series and weighs 2500kg.

Haha...love your sentiments and agree with them, but we live in snowflake ego stroker land now. You can't criticize anyone lest you be canceled. I was at the ring last week for 3 days in the new M2...still working on a write up. It's an amazing car but it's basically tire technology taming an elephant. During Touristenfahrten, there is a clear reason why the overwhelming majority of fast BMWs (and fast cars for that matter) are e36 and e46 M3s.

[Ravenseal]

Originally Posted by AndreM2

Bmw loves return customers.

I find it incredible that most people don’t criticize anymore. I have bought lots of BMW mostly M cars drove most of them on track. I raced BMW in different series. I own an 91 DTM E30 did some classic races with it.

I have a new x1 300hp on order i am still BMW enthusiast but i cannot and will not buy a 1700kg M2 which will be used as a weekend and track fun car. How on earth there are people say that a 1700kg car is awesome on track.

They say yeah the chassis is so good you don’t feel the weight. Who are those people? Have they ever driven other brands. Do they have racing experience?

I mean we are here discussing on a forum. We are not here to give everybody a klap on his shoulder who bought another new car.

Be critical otherwise you’re next M2 is as big as a 7 series and weighs 2500kg.

K bye

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by AndreM2

(a bunch of baloney)

I disagree with literally everything you just said. Let's see:

* Your theory that people are afraid to criticize is baloney. I mean, have you SEEN these forums? No one's getting cancelled. Looks to me like some people disagree with you and apparently you just can't deal with it. boo hoo, poor persecuted you.

* Yes, yes, we are all sheep casuals who don't know what a good track car is. Double irony points for posting this in a thread discussing a video by an actual rally driver who liked the car's performance on a track.

* Your dripping dismissal is insulting, maybe don't talk down to people who HAVE taken the G87 on a track and had fun? Maybe don't be a gatekeeper who decides what real fun is?

* Enjoy your e30. I guess all the rest of us who missed out should just never drive a sports car ever. Because that's your point, right? Sucks to be us, the dirty casuals born too late to get a car first made in 1982. We should just not buy any cars in protest because that will show them! No skin off your back, you already got yours, right?

* I want to re-emphasize this point. Not all of us got to buy a car built in the 80s. Not all of us can we afford to by a $120K+ Porsche, or have 3 different cars. Instead of shitting on these people, maybe make try to be helpful? Ya know, contribute to the conversation. Empathy for others who are not you. Basic human stuff, I know you can do it.

Signed,
- a filthy casual

[JustinHEMI]

Originally Posted by Squidget

I disagree with literally everything you just said. Let's see:

* Your theory that people are afraid to criticize is baloney. I mean, have you SEEN these forums? No one's getting cancelled. Looks to me like some people disagree with you and apparently you just can't deal with it. boo hoo, poor persecuted you.

* Yes, yes, we are all sheep casuals who don't know what a good track car is. Double irony points for posting this in a thread discussing a video by an actual rally driver who liked the car's performance on a track.

* Your dripping dismissal is insulting, maybe don't talk down to people who HAVE taken the G87 on a track and had fun? Maybe don't be a gatekeeper who decides what real fun is?

* Enjoy your e30. I guess all the rest of us who missed out should just never drive a sports car ever. Because that's your point, right? Sucks to be us, the dirty casuals born too late to get a car first made in 1982. We should just not buy any cars in protest because that will show them! No skin off your back, you already got yours, right?

* I want to re-emphasize this point. Not all of us got to buy a car built in the 80s. Not all of us can we afford to by a $120K+ Porsche, or have 3 different cars. Instead of shitting on these people, maybe make try to be helpful? Ya know, contribute to the conversation. Empathy for others who are not you. Basic human stuff, I know you can do it.

Signed,
- a filthy casual

The thing I hate about these "featured on the bimmerpost" posts is that it brings in garbage people from all across the site. I can't imagine wasting any of my time going to forums of cars I don't own and shitting on them. What a life.

[StickyPickle]

Originally Posted by AndreM2

Bmw loves return customers.

I find it incredible that most people don’t criticize anymore. I have bought lots of BMW mostly M cars drove most of them on track. I raced BMW in different series. I own an 91 DTM E30 did some classic races with it.

I have a new x1 300hp on order i am still BMW enthusiast but i cannot and will not buy a 1700kg M2 which will be used as a weekend and track fun car. How on earth there are people say that a 1700kg car is awesome on track.

They say yeah the chassis is so good you don’t feel the weight. Who are those people? Have they ever driven other brands. Do they have racing experience?

I mean we are here discussing on a forum. We are not here to give everybody a klap on his shoulder who bought another new car.

Be critical otherwise you’re next M2 is as big as a 7 series and weighs 2500kg.

Who are those people? Have you read or watched anything JackiePhD has put out? If you ignore opinions by someone like Jackie on how this car performs on a track then you’re not being open minded and there’s no changing your mind no matter what.

[cmgbk75]

Originally Posted by AndreM2

Most people want grip and stability. If you want to drive on rails you can always take the train!

1987 movie old but still modern.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzjQXxktxbs

Working hard to keep the car on track.

The 1m is a handful because of shorter wheel base. The car doesn’t get boring. You need to be on top of youre game always.

I also own a GR yaris and Gr86 cheap cars compared to M2 and Porsches. But my word these are drivers cars on track and back roads. These cars have no status like expensive cars and also have no high horsepowers but i like them very much because of the weight and handling.

As you all say for daily use an M2 is fine.

But for fun on back roads and track there are better choices.

Yes i have test driven the new M2 but could not bring myself into buying one.

My gosh, where is that man’s helmet?!?

[turbowilly]

Originally Posted by Squidget

I disagree with literally everything you just said. Let's see:

* Your theory that people are afraid to criticize is baloney. I mean, have you SEEN these forums? No one's getting cancelled. Looks to me like some people disagree with you and apparently you just can't deal with it. boo hoo, poor persecuted you.

* Yes, yes, we are all sheep casuals who don't know what a good track car is. Double irony points for posting this in a thread discussing a video by an actual rally driver who liked the car's performance on a track.

* Your dripping dismissal is insulting, maybe don't talk down to people who HAVE taken the G87 on a track and had fun? Maybe don't be a gatekeeper who decides what real fun is?

* Enjoy your e30. I guess all the rest of us who missed out should just never drive a sports car ever. Because that's your point, right? Sucks to be us, the dirty casuals born too late to get a car first made in 1982. We should just not buy any cars in protest because that will show them! No skin off your back, you already got yours, right?

* I want to re-emphasize this point. Not all of us got to buy a car built in the 80s. Not all of us can we afford to by a $120K+ Porsche, or have 3 different cars. Instead of shitting on these people, maybe make try to be helpful? Ya know, contribute to the conversation. Empathy for others who are not you. Basic human stuff, I know you can do it.

Signed,
- a filthy casual

There must be a way he can make this new car all about himself!

[FTS]

Originally Posted by Squidget

I disagree with literally everything you just said. Let's see:

* Your theory that people are afraid to criticize is baloney. I mean, have you SEEN these forums? No one's getting cancelled. Looks to me like some people disagree with you and apparently you just can't deal with it. boo hoo, poor persecuted you.

* Yes, yes, we are all sheep casuals who don't know what a good track car is. Double irony points for posting this in a thread discussing a video by an actual rally driver who liked the car's performance on a track.

* Your dripping dismissal is insulting, maybe don't talk down to people who HAVE taken the G87 on a track and had fun? Maybe don't be a gatekeeper who decides what real fun is?

* Enjoy your e30. I guess all the rest of us who missed out should just never drive a sports car ever. Because that's your point, right? Sucks to be us, the dirty casuals born too late to get a car first made in 1982. We should just not buy any cars in protest because that will show them! No skin off your back, you already got yours, right?

* I want to re-emphasize this point. Not all of us got to buy a car built in the 80s. Not all of us can we afford to by a $120K+ Porsche, or have 3 different cars. Instead of shitting on these people, maybe make try to be helpful? Ya know, contribute to the conversation. Empathy for others who are not you. Basic human stuff, I know you can do it.

Signed,
- a filthy casual

You make good points but may be missing what AndreM2 might have been trying to say.

Some of us feel, who have had a long history with BMW and ///M, that the company's designs and engineering have veered off a bit too far from the original mission of the M cars. We remember the times when M3 (and the M2 is supposed to replace the M3) was for performance drivers enjoying driving with added bonus of just enough luxuries that we did not have to buy dedicated weekend cars. The ///M was it for us. We had posters of such M cars. Now these cars, as fast as they may be, virtually drive themselves and marketing is convincing the general public that weight is our friend.

The days of do-it-all sports cars are gone, and we are having a hard time accepting it, we'll adjust and move on for sure. In the meantime, some of us feel so strongly about it that they are encouraging the buyers to be more critical of these products, so maybe BMW will consider a better middle ground in the future. Porsche is living their dream right now and BMW is letting them. New Hope: Lotus!

To AndreM2: People that don't know the difference will drink sand for water.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by FTS

You make good points but may be missing what AndreM2 might have been trying to say.

Some of us feel, who have had a long history with BMW and ///M, that the company's designs and engineering have veered off a bit too far from the original mission of the M cars. We remember the times when M3 (and the M2 is supposed to replace the M3) was for performance drivers enjoying driving with added bonus of just enough luxuries that we did not have to buy dedicated weekend cars. The ///M was it for us. We had posters of such M cars. Now these cars, as fast as they may be, virtually drive themselves and marketing is convincing the general public that weight is our friend.

The days of do-it-all sports cars are gone, and we are having a hard time accepting it, we'll adjust and move on for sure. In the meantime, some of us feel so strongly about it that they are encouraging the buyers to be more critical of these products, so maybe BMW will consider a better middle ground in the future. Porsche is living their dream right now and BMW is letting them. New Hope: Lotus!

To AndreM2: People that don't know the difference will drink sand for water.

That's a fine and reasonable position, I just don't think you are giving us enough credit. We all know that the GT4RS exists, the Emira exists. Hell, the Caterhams, for that matter.

But we ALSO know that the M3 of 1982 literally CANNOT be built today due to market preferences and regulations. Since WE have to buy cars today, we can't get hung up on the past. Where you see ignorance, it's actually just pragmatism. We are not dumb, is what I'm saying, so please don't go shitting on us about our choices.

It's not that BMW *WONT* build another E30/E46, it's that they can't. Not at this price point. Look at what it costs Porsche to make lightweight cars. Look at how compromised the Emira is, and how much it costs, despite having only 2 seats. Don't even get me started on the GR86 or the Z.

I also think it's unfair to say that the M2 has to be the old M3. The M2 is too cheap (old M3s were over 80K in today's dollars, as I previously noted). The M2 is its own thing, in a lower price bracket than the M3 ever was. You have unfair expectations.

Put another way. There is NO new car, NONE, on the market today that matches the M2's various capabilities at its price point. Every comparable car either gives up a lot of things, or costs a lot more. If you evaluate the M2 as a whole package, it's pretty damned good.

You can find countless threads on this forum discussing the relative merits of Supra, RS3, Cayman, Emira, AMG whatever-it-is-who-cares-ugh, GR86, CT4-V BW, Nissan Z, SS 1LE, Vette, etc. etc. etc. We have done the research, so much of it, we are not dumb.

That's why we get pissed when someone who HASN'T been doing the work drops in and says "U R DUM." It's a dick move.

[Squidget]

And to be razor clear here: I spent hundreds of hours on research, and took quite a few test drives, before I selected the G87.

I did the work. And I'm a car history buff. I'm well aware of what was in the past, and what exists today. I've used a timing light and removed a bell housing, thank you very much. I know cars.

And I selected the G87, and I RESENT and am INSULTED when someone implies I'm ignorant about my choice.

That's why I'm pushing back hard here. I'm being civil, because that's how my momma raised me, but I want you to understand that yeah, this pisses me off.

[VIERsr]

Originally Posted by FTS

You make good points but may be missing what AndreM2 might have been trying to say.

Some of us feel, who have had a long history with BMW and ///M, that the company's designs and engineering have veered off a bit too far from the original mission of the M cars. We remember the times when M3 (and the M2 is supposed to replace the M3) was for performance drivers enjoying driving with added bonus of just enough luxuries that we did not have to buy dedicated weekend cars. The ///M was it for us. We had posters of such M cars. Now these cars, as fast as they may be, virtually drive themselves and marketing is convincing the general public that weight is our friend.

The days of do-it-all sports cars are gone, and we are having a hard time accepting it, we'll adjust and move on for sure. In the meantime, some of us feel so strongly about it that they are encouraging the buyers to be more critical of these products, so maybe BMW will consider a better middle ground in the future. Porsche is living their dream right now and BMW is letting them. New Hope: Lotus!

To AndreM2: People that don't know the difference will drink sand for water.

Unless you are talking about GTx cars (which are not exactly comparable to any Bmw), Porsche started this transition even earlier, but not many people are complaining.
The 992 is a far cry from what the 911 has been before, I recently spent many days in a 992 GTS and was shocked, since the last 911 I drove was the 991.1, it is such a big change that you doubt you are still in a 911.
I do not mean to say it is better or worse, it is simply what a 911 (or any other car) needs to be in 2023. You may not like it, but it cannot be otherwise.
Either you accept it, or you make do (I liked the 992 less than the 991.1, but that's my problem), nobody is going to build an E36 or a 993 anymore, it should be pretty obvious.
Finally, don't forget that an M car is an allrounder, not a 2-seater sports car or a track car, and it is not even a specifically designed car like a Porsche or Lotus, it is the "pimped out" version of a large-scale production premium car, therefore some "luxuries" are an inevitable carryover.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by VIERsr

Unless you are talking about GTx cars (which are not exactly comparable to any Bmw), Porsche started this transition even earlier, but not many people are complaining.

Also OMG they also got so expensive. They increase in price faster than I can get pay raises. I'll probably never have one.

[NWest]

Originally Posted by Squidget

And to be razor clear here: I spent hundreds of hours on research, and took quite a few test drives, before I selected the G87.

I did the work. And I'm a car history buff. I'm well aware of what was in the past, and what exists today. I've used a timing light and removed a bell housing, thank you very much. I know cars.

And I selected the G87, and I RESENT and am INSULTED when someone implies I'm ignorant about my choice.

That's why I'm pushing back hard here. I'm being civil, because that's how my momma raised me, but I want you to understand that yeah, this pisses me off.

These are people from the internet, your car doesn’t define you, you’ve got a great M2!

[VIERsr]

This is exactly what I mean
https://g87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...&postcount=203

[fcman]

Originally Posted by Squidget

You can find countless threads on this forum discussing the relative merits of Supra, RS3, Cayman, Emira, AMG whatever-it-is-who-cares-ugh, GR86, CT4-V BW, Nissan Z, SS 1LE, Vette, etc. etc. etc. We have done the research, so much of it, we are not dumb.

That's why we get pissed when someone who HASN'T been doing the work drops in and says "U R DUM." It's a dick move.

Yep, my list of previous cars includes Rx7s , an S2000, and most recently a 7-speed Z51 C7 corvette, all owned for 5+ years and driven hard/tracked/competitive autox’d. I cross shopped the M2 against the 991.2, the F87C, the G80, the CT4-V BW. My 135i I had 6 years ago is the least sporty car I’ve ever owned (though I still enjoyed auto crossing it)

It’s the exact opposite of what that guy said, it’s not sports car guys who don’t like the M2, it’s BMW fanboys who can’t accept the fact the BMW doesn’t make sports cars (and the M2/3/4 never were sports car anyway)