[baj_baj]

Originally Posted by Lappy

Looking the the old rs3 video, how in the heck did that car hit 10kph more on the straight lol. 292 vs 282 for the m2. Smells like the new ctr "record" time posted by Honda which the car had more boost and different gearing lol.

Interesting... That thing must be running over 500hp considering the weight shouldn't be much different...

[Davil]

Originally Posted by Lappy

Looking the the old rs3 video, how in the heck did that car hit 10kph more on the straight lol. 292 vs 282 for the m2. Smells like the new ctr "record" time posted by Honda which the car had more boost and different gearing lol.

Do you honestly believe any of this stuff? It’s carefully choreographed for men on car forums. But I think you know that.

[VIERsr]

Originally Posted by Lappy

Looking the the old rs3 video, how in the heck did that car hit 10kph more on the straight lol. 292 vs 282 for the m2. Smells like the new ctr "record" time posted by Honda which the car had more boost and different gearing lol.

The speed shown on the RS3 is taken from the speedo, not sure about the Bmw.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by VIERsr

Don't forget that the RS3 had Pirelli P Zero Trofeo R (the equivalent of Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2R, the CSL tire), a step above the P Zero Corsa/Cup 2 on track performance. It makes a huge difference on such a track, with the same tires the gap would be much larger

Regarding the F87, you can clearly see how the G87 is much more stick to the ground thanks to the a better suspensions setup, the F87 was too bouncy, it was fine on flat surfaces, but it caused loss of traction (or DSC cuts) on bumps, whereas the G87 rides on rails.
For someone this could mean "less fun", but it's actually "more speed".

This right here... it takes a little bit of driving the F87 around to really pick up on this. The F87 was insanely poor on uneven surfaces... and unfortunately most roads, highway on ramps are in fact uneven so you always have to live with it. The way it drove over any bump made me lose any confidence in the car... glad I got rid of it. It's amazing to me that my non M X3 can somehow feel far more planted and confident in the same turns than my M car... absolutely no idea how BMW could sell an M car like that.

[02M3ForMe]

Originally Posted by Davil

I’ll never understand the fascination. See video below.

…

P.P.P.S., this has no relevance to me. I’m never going to drive around the Nurburgring with my car. I just like how it makes me feel. This has somehow become lost. It’s why modern Porsches are soulless boring things. G series have gone the same way. For people who like to talk about numbers on forums rather than sheer driving pleasure. Remember that?

I’ve found the Ring time to be a surprisingly reliable indicator of overall performance. A car capable of a faster Ring time generally performs better overall than a car with a slower time, and the difference can be felt even when simply hustling the cars on local backroads. For example, M4 CSL vs. M5 CS. They have nearly the same straight line performance, yet the CSL is over 10 seconds faster on the Ring, and that implied cornering performance delta is readily felt when pushing both cars. You don’t have to be on the Ring or even at 10/10ths locally to feel the difference.

The Ring is varied and long enough for its lap times to be probably the one metric that effectively cuts through the noise and subjectivity to tell you how a car performs “overall”. Drive lots of cars, the correlation is undeniable. It’s “marketing” in that it’s a good idea to tell customers about the legitimate merits of your product, but it’s not BS (gamed factory results notwithstanding). Sport auto Supertest times are highly respected for very good reason.

[VIERsr]

Originally Posted by ASAP

This right here... it takes a little bit of driving the F87 around to really pick up on this. The F87 was insanely poor on uneven surfaces... and unfortunately most roads, highway on ramps are in fact uneven so you always have to live with it. The way it drove over any bump made me lose any confidence in the car... glad I got rid of it. It's amazing to me that my non M X3 can somehow feel far more planted and confident in the same turns than my M car... absolutely no idea how BMW could sell an M car like that.

With good coilovers (or the CS with adaptive suspensions) the situation improves a lot, but in general the longer wheelbase and wider tracks of the Gxx helps to keep the car stick to the ground.
The 1M was even worst btw.

[Jackie Chiles]

Originally Posted by Davil

I’ll never understand the fascination. See video below.

P.S., the amazing exact 10 second difference between each model may be what M now stands for. ///Marketing.

P.P.S., every manufacturer doing timed runs tweaks for times for marketing purposes. Quite a few have been caught out.

P.P.P.S., this has no relevance to me. I’m never going to drive around the Nurburgring with my car. I just like how it makes me feel. This has somehow become lost. It’s why modern Porsches are soulless boring things. G series have gone the same way. For people who like to talk about numbers on forums rather than sheer driving pleasure. Remember that?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gx1ESSwNXB0

That vid was hilarious.

But I do make decisions on what vehicle (car or motorbike) to buy based on track tests and laps times, and I’ve done so almost forever.

And the Nordschliefe times are clearly benchmarks, even though they may each come with a few asterisks.

To me, going fast in a focused track capable vehicle is sheer driving pleasure, surpassed only by passing my friends on track.

PS: what 02M3ForMe said.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by VIERsr

With good coilovers (or the CS with adaptive suspensions) the situation improves a lot, but in general the longer wheelbase and wider tracks of the Gxx helps to keep the car stick to the ground.
The 1M was even worst btw.

Yea, but if I am paying 65K for a car that is a supposed M car with a supposed M suspension, I don't want to be installing coil overs to make what was supposed to be right from the factory. I drove the car hard a few times after buying it and I wasn't sure if myself and the reviewers drove the same car - I could not see the appeal at all... it felt very subpar.

I usually don't take track comparos or ring times seriously... because I don't drive my car on the track, I want to see how it feels on the street... however, as the poster above said... if a car is sorted on a track like the 'ring which is bouncy and simulates a TON of conditions... it is usually indicative of how sorted it will feel on the street.

As far as the 1M... don't even get me started on that marketing exercise... outside of a collector's car... that car has exactly 0 going for it.... it's amazing how much better sorted modern cars like the Supra / G87 are.

[GT3M2]

Originally Posted by DS_BMW

I'm surprised it's not faster than the Giulia Quadrifoglio's time set back in 2016. The M2 has much more tire up front.

Giulia Quadrifoglio 7:32
F80 M3 CS 7:38
G87 M2 7:38
G80 M3 CS 7:28

Has Cadillac ran either CT4V or CT5V Blackwings?

Keep in mind at some point they switched what version of the laptime they are running, those are relatively recent but important to keep in mind.

BTG vs full lap, etc

-GT3M2

[Lappy]

Originally Posted by ASAP

This right here... it takes a little bit of driving the F87 around to really pick up on this. The F87 was insanely poor on uneven surfaces... and unfortunately most roads, highway on ramps are in fact uneven so you always have to live with it. The way it drove over any bump made me lose any confidence in the car... glad I got rid of it. It's amazing to me that my non M X3 can somehow feel far more planted and confident in the same turns than my M car... absolutely no idea how BMW could sell an M car like that.

Here is my stock car with just falken 660s on it and some brake pads. Granted the tires were not in the best of shape and it was pretty hot out, but the thing just tries to kill you on power lol. Fun, but there is no chance I'm actually going push a car that behaves like this.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by DS_BMW

I'm surprised it's not faster than the Giulia Quadrifoglio's time set back in 2016. The M2 has much more tire up front.

Giulia Quadrifoglio 7:32
F80 M3 CS 7:38
G87 M2 7:38
G80 M3 CS 7:28

Has Cadillac ran either CT4V or CT5V Blackwings?

The Guilia Quadrofoglio time was set on the old shorter lap, it would be about the same as the M2 on the new lap.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by Lappy

Here is my stock car with just falken 660s on it and some brake pads. Granted the tires were not in the best of shape and it was pretty hot out, but the thing just tries to kill you on power lol. Fun, but there is no chance I'm actually going push a car that behaves like this.

Man - great video... very solid driving.

But I can just see even on those semi slick Falken's, the car is absolutely all over the place in the turns lol.... now imagine someone trying to hustle their own car in the backroads on the stock 255 MPSS rears... its a disaster to be honest ... it wasn't for me, so I sold it... i went on backroad fun with a few 20 year old Corvettes and they felt far more confident and stable.

[SexyRoger]

Originally Posted by Mani59

7:38,706 Min

Announcement Page: https://www.bmw-m.com/en/topics/maga...dschleife.html

BMW M share the M2 lap around the Nürburgring Nordschleife.

Attachment 3265234

Nice one - BMW on par with a Cayenne GT - 7:38.925 Now let's compare it vs cars and its 10 seconds behind a GT4 and nearly 40 seconds behind a GT4 RS. Maybe BMW needs more power and a new front suspension double wishbone???

But car looks great, I love the M2.

[M2Cmtl]

Originally Posted by ASAP

This right here... it takes a little bit of driving the F87 around to really pick up on this. The F87 was insanely poor on uneven surfaces... and unfortunately most roads, highway on ramps are in fact uneven so you always have to live with it. The way it drove over any bump made me lose any confidence in the car... glad I got rid of it. It's amazing to me that my non M X3 can somehow feel far more planted and confident in the same turns than my M car... absolutely no idea how BMW could sell an M car like that.

Won't argue with that but that's why you could have so much fun with the car at "sane" speeds. Low end grunt + poor traction . I had more of an issue with the loss of steam up top. Over 5.5k was kind of pointless.

[GT3M2]

Originally Posted by SexyRoger

Nice one - BMW on par with a Cayenne GT - 7:38.925 Now let's compare it vs cars and its 10 seconds behind a GT4 and nearly 40 seconds behind a GT4 RS. Maybe BMW needs more power and a new front suspension double wishbone???

But car looks great, I love the M2.

10 Seconds behind a 2 door, 3k lb porsche GT car with no trunk?

LOL

This is a WIN.

-GT3M2

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by M2Cmtl

Won't argue with that but that's why you could have so much fun with the car at "sane" speeds. Low end grunt + poor traction . I had more of an issue with the loss of steam up top. Over 5.5k was kind of pointless.

100%... can't deny this. It was the most fun car I've ever owned... but it had so many drawbacks as a result of that, I wanted to have nothing to do with it when I sold it lol.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by baron95

I assume this time is with the MP4S and the M3CS time is with Cup2Rs. Is that correct?

If so, same tires the M2 may beat the M3CS, which has 90 more HP.

The weight difference is only 100lbs and the M3 CS has the advantage in the long high speed sections of the course. The M2 won’t be faster. It’s just physics. Maybe on a tighter, smaller track.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by ourlee

I’m not embarrassed to admit it (I’ve never been on a track) that’s scary as fvck

Having been on the track many times, it’s still scary as fuck. The ring is no joke.

[Fugly M3]

Originally Posted by jmg

Having been on the track many times, it’s still scary as fuck. The ring is no joke.

"The closer you are to death, the more alive you feel." I believe that's the James Hunt quote?

[baron95]

Originally Posted by Lappy

Here is my stock car with just falken 660s on it and some brake pads. Granted the tires were not in the best of shape and it was pretty hot out, but the thing just tries to kill you on power lol. Fun, but there is no chance I'm actually going push a car that behaves like this.

So what is it in the G87 vs F87C that settled the car (at least I hope it does). The suspension set up is basically the same. The G87 has 2 more inches - which prob helps some. It has a bit more front tire, but I think you already had wider more grippy tires upfront on your F87.

Is it the front track being much wider now? The chassis bracing?

I'm asking because I'm coming from C7 Corvette and Camaro SS 1LE, both of which had no bad handling vices on track. I hope I'm not going to be disappointed with the G87. I know it will be a much better road car, but will it disappoint on track?

[Bumpinjeep]

Originally Posted by SexyRoger

Nice one - BMW on par with a Cayenne GT - 7:38.925 Now let's compare it vs cars and its 10 seconds behind a GT4 and nearly 40 seconds behind a GT4 RS. Maybe BMW needs more power and a new front suspension double wishbone???

But car looks great, I love the M2.

Originally Posted by GT3M2

10 Seconds behind a 2 door, 3k lb porsche GT car with no trunk?

LOL

This is a WIN.

-GT3M2

It's not 10 seconds behind, Porsche's time was on a shorter circuit (20.6 km vs 20.8 km). It's actually 5 seconds.

[TopherHax]

So if the G87 goes on a diet (drop 100-150lbs) and a little ECU tune/piggbyback to gain 100HP it should be on par with a GT4.