[Squidget]

I mean, unless you suck at shifting and tend to money shift your cars. In that case, maybe keep the nanny stuff in?

[baron95]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

there will probably be an autosolutions ssk in the future to fix the issue. at least with the shifter.

I think a 3 inch shorter shift stick would make a nice difference. That thing is so tall, feels like you are driving a Peterbilt. I'm used to a quick flick of the wrist to shift. On the BMW it is a massively long throw. Why? Because some silly person like Chris Harris claims it needs to be a hand's width from the steering wheel? Feels like a check the box transmission.

My car's Tremec has no-lift shift. To be honest, I don't use it. I drive too many different manual cars (HPDE instructor) and don't want to develop that no-lift habit.

I really, really loved the G87 M2, though. And I'm just picking a bit on the shifter.

It could be my impression, but the M240i ZF8 appeared to have more low end pep than the M2 6-speed. I wonder if that is what the reviewers were whining about the lack of power in the manual.

[baron95]

Originally Posted by Squidget

I would assume not, because to my understanding it just throttle blips. It doesn't finesse the clutch. (Someone please correct me if that is wrong.)

The first 5 min of my test drive I had the auto-blip on, while the CA and I worked the menus to try to figure out how to turn it off.

It is a simple downshift auto blip - actually, less of a blip and more of a bump of the RPM up to where it should be in the lower gear. Works very well, but still I'd have it off as I can't control my foot - it always blips on it's own.

I honestly don't think there is anything wrong with the clutch - it's fine and easy to modulate. I had to maneuver out of a tight parking spot and parking lot right off the bat and was instantly comfortable and smooth.

The clutch and shifter are very, very smooth and light. Just the throws are long and rubbery/imprecise (hard to describe).

[baron95]

Originally Posted by M2CS

You could install an aftermarket short-throw shifter.

I think that would do it. But why did BMW put such a long throw shifter on it? Weird!.

[sl0m0]

Originally Posted by baron95

It could be my impression, but the M240i ZF8 appeared to have more low end pep than the M2 6-speed. I wonder if that is what the reviewers were whining about the lack of power in the manual.

This part makes me curious. We all know bmw under-rates their HP and tq #'s, but this time they might have had to actually detune the tq to keep the car in compliance with the transmission manufacturer specs to maintain warranty. The auto might actually have more than rated.

Just a thought. I personally will still take the manual.

[Humdizzle]

Originally Posted by baron95

I think a 3 inch shorter shift stick would make a nice difference. That thing is so tall, feels like you are driving a Peterbilt. I'm used to a quick flick of the wrist to shift. On the BMW it is a massively long throw. Why? Because some silly person like Chris Harris claims it needs to be a hand's width from the steering wheel? Feels like a check the box transmission.

My car's Tremec has no-lift shift. To be honest, I don't use it. I drive too many different manual cars (HPDE instructor) and don't want to develop that no-lift habit.

I really, really loved the G87 M2, though. And I'm just picking a bit on the shifter.

It could be my impression, but the M240i ZF8 appeared to have more low end pep than the M2 6-speed. I wonder if that is what the reviewers were whining about the lack of power in the manual.

my thought with the manual it is they are trying to cater to everyone by making it easy to use in stop-n-go traffic without being fatiguing for a tiny woman. but also 'just' good enough to wear most enthusiasts aren't going to raise much of a fuss.

my gt3 has the no lift shift as well and i hardly use it. but sometimes when you want acceleration its nice as there is no delay between the 1-2 shift at redline. almost makes it pdk like. it would be more beneficial to the m2 due to the turbo lag between shifts with spirited driving.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by baron95

I think that would do it. But why did BMW put such a long throw shifter on it? Weird!.

It's just their philosophy, as far as I know. BMW has always* used a long throw shifter. Not a new thing. Long throw, slightly rubbery, but still precise.

*in my experience, which goes back to the e46.

I will note that BMW engines "float the RPMs" a beat longer than, say, super high compression Japanese 4 cylinder engines. Perhaps the long throw is there to delay your upshift action, giving the RPMs time to drop into the sweet sport for the higher gear.

This difference in shift timing KICKED MY ASS the first time I drove a BMW. Coming from a 4 banger, I was trying to upshift way too fast and not waiting for the RPMs to spin down, leading to bucking. BMW motors do NOT like to be hurried.

This is just my pet theory, I've never done actual research or anything.

[F87inJAX]

Originally Posted by baron95

Just finished test driving a BG M2 manual HEA car - street only, of course, but got on some curvy and bumpy roads.

The car is phenomenal - I liked everything about it, specially the suspension and interior, except for the manual transmission.

Wow, that manual has some long rubbery throws. Maybe I could get used to it, but I can't imagine doing consistent fast shifts on that at the track or street. I heard a lot of people complaining about the clutch engagement, but I think that is fine - I had no issues with the clutch, just the shift action. I drove to the dealer on my Tremec-equipped manual car, and boy they are on two different planets of precision, short throws and shifting action/speed.

I did drive an M240i with the ZF8, and thought it performed really well.

Now, leaning ZF8 for the M2 - pains me to admit the manual does not suit the car.

On the plus side, suspension was phenomenal - just the right amount of damping without being harsh over bumps. Car had Pzeros on but, honestly they feel the same on the street as the PS4.

I’ve had a Tremec 6060 and absolutely loved it. As for the shifter in the G87, I thought the throws felt a little shorter and less rubbery than my F87 (although that could be partially due to the newness of the G87 vs the F87 being well broken in). When I heard all the rubbery shifter comments in the reviews my biggest fear was that it would feel worse than the F87. At the end of the day, at least it doesn’t feel like a VW. I had a 6MT Mk 7.5 Golf R and the shifter was so disappointing there was no point even having it. Traded it in for the same car with a DSG.

[F87inJAX]

Originally Posted by baron95

the throws are long and rubbery/imprecise (hard to describe).

I think BMW could do themselves a huge favor with minimal cost and at least just weight the shift knob better. At one point I tried swapping out the standard knob in the F87 for the weighted (and shorter) ZHP knob and it made a big difference in shift feel.

At the end of the day, I guess you get used to BMW shifters. There are definitely better and there are definitely worse. It’s unfortunate they don’t put more development effort into it but it’s not bad enough to ruin the driving experience.

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by F87inJAX

I think BMW could do themselves a huge favor with minimal cost and at least just weight the shift knob better. At one point I tried swapping out the standard knob in the F87 for the weighted (and shorter) ZHP knob and it made a big difference in shift feel.

At the end of the day, I guess you get used to BMW shifters. There are definitely better and there are definitely worse. It’s unfortunate they don’t put more development effort into it but it’s not bad enough to ruin the driving experience.

I've only driven BMW manuals the last 23 years, but my F82's seems fine - it does take a few thousand miles for the tranny to loosen up. Brand new everything is very tight and unforgiving.

[adc]

I understand this is the same transmission as in the F8x. With the same "long and rubbery" throws. Is that not the case?

Fewer people complained then. And for those who did, there is always a SSK.

A manual transmission won't be as fast, won't be as convenient in traffic, blah blah blah. You want one because you crave the extra layer of involvement, and are willing to put the up with the extra work.

If you are considering the manual, just get it, stop complaining. It isn't different than the other million of BMW manual transmissions from the past.

Edit: If you are in the area and on the fence, I offer anyone to test drive my car with the Auto Solutions SSK.

[baron95]

Originally Posted by adc

Fewer people complained then. And for those who did, there is always a SSK.


Edit: If you are in the area and on the fence, I offer anyone to test drive my car with the Auto Solutions SSK.

I'm not familiar with SSK - what does it do exactly, and what is the improvement?

The only other manual BMW I drive regularly is a SpecE30 race car - which has it's unique characteristics as well. Driven one E36 and a few E46 on track, and E46 seems to be the best manuals from memory. Don't think I had to give that transmission an extra thought.

G87 made me think about each shift. Not that it is bad - just not seamless.

[adc]

Originally Posted by baron95

I'm not familiar with SSK - what does it do exactly, and what is the improvement?

The only other manual BMW I drive regularly is a SpecE30 race car - which has it's unique characteristics as well. Driven one E36 and a few E46 on track, and E46 seems to be the best manuals from memory. Don't think I had to give that transmission an extra thought.

G87 made me think about each shift. Not that it is bad - just not seamless.

SSK is just the generic terms for Short Shift Kit. It typically refers to anything from just shortening the top of the shift lever, to a complete overhaul of the entire shift linkage.

Rogue Engineering, UUC, Auto Solutions are just some who make SSK's for many of the BMW generations.

I have experienced UUC and Auto Solutions in the F8x generation. The Auto Solutions is the better one by far. They don't offer an off the shelf common solution, they engineer each one of them for your specific usage.
- They alter the geometry of the shifter linkage
- They retain the main carrier arm (very solid in these cars)
- Different fulcrum (pivot) mechanism
- Replaces some of the bushings with increased hardness ones

When you talk to Ron @ Auto Solutions, he asks you about the typical usage of the car (street vs. track vs. drag), whether or not you want to retain the stock knob, whether you want to retain the stock height of the knob, the percentage of shift throw reduction, etc. Based on this mini-interview, he recommends a specific configuration (which you are free to alter any way you want). Then he makes it for you. And not for a ton of money, it's just a little bit more than the other ones.

My results were a smooth yet much more precise engagement feel, reduced throw, stock appearance. Huge difference.

[baron95]

Originally Posted by adc

SSK is just the generic terms for Short Shift Kit. It typically refers to anything from just shortening the top of the shift lever, to a complete overhaul of the entire shift linkage.

Rogue Engineering, UUC, Auto Solutions are just some who make SSK's for many of the BMW generations.

I have experienced UUC and Auto Solutions in the F8x generation. The Auto Solutions is the better one by far. They don't offer an off the shelf common solution, they engineer each one of them for your specific usage.
- They alter the geometry of the shifter linkage
- They retain the main carrier arm (very solid in these cars)
- Different fulcrum (pivot) mechanism
- Replaces some of the bushings with increased hardness ones

When you talk to Ron @ Auto Solutions, he asks you about the typical usage of the car (street vs. track vs. drag), whether or not you want to retain the stock knob, whether you want to retain the stock height of the knob, the percentage of shift throw reduction, etc. Based on this mini-interview, he recommends a specific configuration (which you are free to alter any way you want). Then he makes it for you. And not for a ton of money, it's just a little bit more than the other ones.

My results were a smooth yet much more precise engagement feel, reduced throw, stock appearance. Huge difference.

Thank you for taking the time to provide such a detailed answer. Much appreciated.

I'm now leaning back to the manual. Which is great given how many of the HEA cars are manuals, with luck I'll land one soon.

[Humdizzle]

MilesPerHr Review

Hadn't heard of this guy before but he seems to have about 1/2M subs.

- feels too much like an M4 to drive now. very predictable/stable. Old M2 felt like its on tossable/exciting thing that was separate from the F82. At the end he says he likes the new M2 and it will appeal to more people now with the ride and refinement, but he loved the old m2 comp more.

- He does the 4th gear low rpm test like throttle house. but punching it from 3000rpm. says the car takes a long time to build boost and get moving. at 17:00

[KevinC]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

MilesPerHr Review
]
- feels too much like an M4 to drive now. very predictable/stable. Old M2 felt like its on tossable/exciting thing that was separate from the F82. At the end he says he likes the new M2 and it will appeal to more people now with the ride and refinement, but he loved the old m2 comp more.

- He does the 4th gear low rpm test like throttle house. but punching it from 3000rpm. says the car takes a long time to build boost and get moving. at 17:00

Is this where the 27-page outrage thread starts, or will that be a separate thread?

[zero21]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

MilesPerHr Review

Hadn't heard of this guy before but he seems to have about 1/2M subs.

- feels too much like an M4 to drive now. very predictable/stable. Old M2 felt like its on tossable/exciting thing that was separate from the F82. At the end he says he likes the new M2 and it will appeal to more people now with the ride and refinement, but he loved the old m2 comp more.

- He does the 4th gear low rpm test like throttle house. but punching it from 3000rpm. says the car takes a long time to build boost and get moving. at 17:00

When you leave the boost gauge up on the center console and just drive, it only makes like 5psi at 3k on display. It isn't until you get to 3500 that it starts moving - just FYI.

That last fact is what has me so weirded out about BMW's claims, the IND dyno run, etc etc. IND still hasn't commented on how the car's power curve shifted 500RPM on the second run. I believe the car makes differing amounts of boost in different gears.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by zero21

That last fact is what has me so weirded out about BMW's claims, the IND dyno run, etc etc. IND still hasn't commented on how the car's power curve shifted 500RPM on the second run. I believe the car makes differing amounts of boost in different gears.

If done on purpose, that would be... unprecedented? I'd normally be skeptical, but IND is reputable. So I'm with you, I would like more hard data. It's possible it's a software bug, not unusual for a first-year model. Especially since it doesn't seem everyone sees this behavior.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

MilesPerHr Review

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f85L...nel=MilesPerHr

Hadn't heard of this guy before but he seems to have about 1/2M subs.

- feels too much like an M4 to drive now. very predictable/stable. Old M2 felt like its on tossable/exciting thing that was separate from the F82. At the end he says he likes the new M2 and it will appeal to more people now with the ride and refinement, but he loved the old m2 comp more.

- He does the 4th gear low rpm test like throttle house. but punching it from 3000rpm. says the car takes a long time to build boost and get moving. at 17:00

in your 2nd paragraph... everything sounds like a positive as oppose to negative

[zero21]

Originally Posted by Squidget

If done on purpose, that would be... unprecedented? I'd normally be skeptical, but IND is reputable. So I'm with you, I would like more hard data. It's possible it's a software bug, not unusual for a first-year model. Especially since it doesn't seem everyone sees this behavior.

It would not be unprecedented. It's an easy way to help traction issues.

Lots of high horsepower configurations limit boost in lower gears - Ferrari does this extensively. I know Mercedes has been doing it for a long time since their V12biturbo engine.

I'm not claiming this is the case, but with everything we've seen, something funny is going on with the numbers because they do not align with what I see on my boost gauge. Even in Sport Plus it's not making any boost until 3k.

[Humdizzle]

Originally Posted by ASAP

in your 2nd paragraph... everything sounds like a positive as oppose to negative

depends on what you want in an M2. like he said in the video if you have an elise at one end of the spectrum and a bentley on the other. the new m2 has shifted more towards the bentley compared to the f87.

Originally Posted by zero21

When you leave the boost gauge up on the center console and just drive, it only makes like 5psi at 3k on display. It isn't until you get to 3500 that it starts moving - just FYI.

That last fact is what has me so weirded out about BMW's claims, the IND dyno run, etc etc. IND still hasn't commented on how the car's power curve shifted 500RPM on the second run. I believe the car makes differing amounts of boost in different gears.

possible it might be boost by gear. not sure what gear IND did their pull in but it was probably 5th as that is closest to 1:1. but you would think bmw would tell everyone about that.

[1stM]

Stock M2 at the track....