[fcman]

Originally Posted by robopp

S58 is going on 5 years now so it’s not exactly new.

Its still a current-gen BMW engine. It's as new as it gets for now. Prices are already getting discounted for shorts

[SexyRoger]

Originally Posted by Jason

Performance Coupe Showdown: 2023 BMW M2 vs. 2024 Ford Mustang Dark Horse

The 453-hp BMW M2 and the 500-hp Ford Mustang Dark Horse take performance coupes to new heights.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...ng-dark-horse/

I find this comparison offensive. Not sure if anyone else does too.

M2 is awesome.

Mustang is great for those who love mustang as what it is a mustang.

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by two_three_two

thats what i was referencing. any example of failure of a stock motor NOT related to damage to this component would be news to me personally, but maybe you have more knowledge there.

and as stated... this is now unfortunately part and parcel to modern performance car ownership (corolla example re-linked in case you missed it: https://www.thedrive.com/news/2023-t...-you-dont-want)

I'm familiar with the modern Toyota engine replacement cost as well. I've seen this on the Tundra forums where a replacement engine cost over $25k.

When you track often enough, you need to consider the engine a consumable item. When you do, the cost matters more. If you're getting rid of your G8X before the warranty expires, then it doesn't matter as much.

Originally Posted by fcman

This is pretty much always the case with these cars though. I had a 135i with the N55 back when they were pretty new and replacement shorts were $20k+ back then too, and that was pre-pandemic. Just how it goes with newer models

Yup, I paid about $15k in parts/labor for a new N55 when my N55 self ventilated at VIR. Tried 2 used N55s but they were all junk. You figure if someone had a good used N55, why would they even sell it these days?

Originally Posted by fcman

Its still a current-gen BMW engine. It's as new as it gets for now. Prices are already getting discounted for shorts

How much of a discount from $25k MSRP for an exchange S58 engine from BMW? Don't forget that if you experience a catastrophic engine failure on a turbocharged engine, chances are you will need to replace your turbos as well.

[Smilodon]

Y'all realize that this is from a magazine that famously comparison-tested a Ferrari 250 GTO against a Pontiac GTO back in the day, right?

You can compare anything to anything. I think the two cars obviously try to do something similar in a different way, but there are more overall similarities than differences. So in this case, I think it *was* a fair comparison.

But, if the were comparing it to a base Nissan Altima, I would be reading it expecting some fun (and maybe some chagrin if the Altima had a few things your BMW *didn't*).

Anyhow... "offended"? I guess it just shows how easily offended folks are these days.

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by stark_c

Not particularly about pledging alliance or fanboy a brand, they drive very differently, simple as that. Muscle cars are a different breed. Driving dynamics preference does exist.

It's just not possible to make a blanket statement that all German cars feel better to hustle around than all [insert country] cars. There are plenty of GM products that have better driving dynamics than the stuff that comes out of M and AMG, despite them routinely having worse overall packages.

I've been fortunate to drive and track a litany of performance vehicles and it's really a case by case basis

My GT350 was a total driver's car that I would've missed out on if I was the same BMW loyalist I was 15 years ago

[xtougher]

Originally Posted by aerobod

From a driving and fun perspective there isn’t much in it between the two cars. From a car enthusiast perspective who wants a good track car, brand doesn’t matter. “My brand is better than yours” car meets is where you will find lots of car snobs masquerading as car enthusiasts.

That's a BAR.

[JasonFL]

Dark Horse kicks the M2's ass on track.

[DoritoKing]

Originally Posted by stark_c

I honestly don’t think normal people cross shop mustang with M cars. Either you do German or you do American muscle.

guess i'm the weirdo who bought both.

[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by JasonFL

Dark Horse kicks the M2's ass on track.

the dark horse comes with Trofeo RS tires as standard kit. tire them the same and the G87 likely wins every single time assuming equal drivers.

[T-Rexx]

Originally Posted by stark_c

I honestly don’t think normal people cross shop mustang with M cars. Either you do German or you do American muscle.

Exactly! Two very different types of performance car enthusiasts.

[T-Rexx]

Originally Posted by Montaver

The M2 is an absolute performance bargain, especially when you compare it to the M3/M4. It’s not been de-contented in the way the F87 was (adaptive dampers, carbon roof option, interior quality, 3 series HK sound, full fat S58 from the get go etc) and the engine is well underrated. You also get bullet proof cooling, brakes (with ducts), full M traction, G series chassis rigidity and bracing from the M4 etc.

Testify brother!!!

[T-Rexx]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

M2:
“easier to drive quickly”
“quicker”
“more playful”
15-20k less expensive

And better build quality, more luxurious, better liniage (it’s an M car!!!)

[BgsDks]

Originally Posted by DoritoKing

guess i'm the weirdo who bought both.

You and me both

[BgsDks]

Originally Posted by T-Rexx

Exactly! Two very different types of performance car enthusiasts.

Hold my beer - I'll be back when I take delivery to disprove your prejudice.

[T-Rexx]

Originally Posted by BgsDks

Hold my beer - I'll be back when I take delivery to disprove your prejudice.

Hahahaha, it’s not an exact science, there will be the occasional outlier and ODD-ity hahaha 😜

[SeanJP]

Originally Posted by SexyRoger

I find this comparison offensive. Not sure if anyone else does too.

M2 is awesome.

Mustang is great for those who love mustang as what it is a mustang.

Same price range, similar horsepower, rear wheel drive, two-door track focused cars, both with tight back seats. I’m not sure why you find it offensive.

[SeanJP]

Originally Posted by T-Rexx

And better build quality, more luxurious, better liniage (it’s an M car!!!)

I’m not discounting the lineage of the M, but the Mustang also has iconic lineage and history.

[T-Rexx]

Originally Posted by SeanJP

I’m not discounting the lineage of the M, but the Mustang also has iconic lineage and history.

Very true! I can’t deny that!

[SeanJP]

It’s actually cool to see the M2 do so well against the Dark Horse. Modern pony cars are no joke. It wasn’t that long ago that the rest of the car community finally started giving them their due respect. Cheaper build quality, but For many decades, they’ve been able to really deliver the bang for the buck. The last GT500 is an absolute beast.

The M2 out-pony car’d an iconic pony car, with nicer build quality and luxury to boot.

[SeanJP]

It’s actually cool to see the M2 do so well against the Dark Horse. Modern pony cars are no joke. It wasn’t that long ago that the rest of the car community finally started giving them their due respect. Cheaper build quality, but For many decades, they’ve been able to really deliver the bang for the buck. The last GT500 is an absolute beast.

The M2 out-pony car’d an iconic pony car, with nicer build quality and luxury to boot.

[Dave07997S]

Originally Posted by BgsDks

You and me both

Makes 3 of us what's up bro!!!

[minn19]

Add me to the weirdo list, have had a lot of BMWs, Porsches, MB, Mustangs, Camaros, one Z06 and a 4V BW Blackwing etc. Ford and Chevy chassis are awesome, add mag ride to them and more often than not they are better than BMWs a majority of the time and actually have steering feel.

Where the domestics fall way short is in service and dealership experience. My two GT350s were awesome drivers cars, but nightmares when it came to reliability. I know many have similar stories with BMW (I have one), but if you have a problem at least you drive out in a nice BMW loaner. GM and Ford dealers often don’t offer loaners and if they do it’s a beat up Fiesta (at that time) or a Malibu.

I’m sorry, if you are a real car enthusiast why wouldn’t cross shop these cars? Had my history with Ford not been so bad across the board reliability wise with not just the GT350s, but my past F-150s…..I very well may have bought a Dark Horse. Both the M2 and DH are awesome cars.

Real car enthusiasts check out cool cars regardless of whats on the hood. I can’t stand badge whores whether it is redneck Ford/GM owners or snobby German (especially Porsche) drivers.