[Motorsportenterprise]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Ahh, how much does a M3 or M6 weigh?

And let's look to see which one would win on a track, in a straight, etc. It surely wouldn't be anything BMW has ever put a roundel on. The ZL1 will wipe the floor with an M4 GTS with ease and then some. Maybe the M4 GTS will perform as ZL1 level in a few decades.

[AtlasM]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Ahh, how much does a M3 or M6 weigh?

Who cares? Trying to nail down specific definitions for general vehicle categories and then nitpicking the details is dumb.

I only said "it's a muscle car" as the reason why it's no big deal that the ZL1 doesn't have a nicer interior.

So, for the third time, with slightly different words, and no vehicle category names that people will want to argue about:

The Camaro is a car that starts out in the mid-$20k range. The Camaro ZL1, while it costs 3x that much, is priced that high because of all the performance goodies you get. A much-fancier interior isn't part of the deal.

That's all I was talking about.

[RM7]

And how exactly is the interior fancier on an M3?

[KenB925]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

And how exactly is the interior fancier on an M3?

Roundels and the stripes with 3 colors

[Unknown_Car]

Originally Posted by Sedoy

Typically, german vehicles fanboys start to trash interior quality if the opposing non-german vehicle is superior in other categories such as: performance, handling, price, fun to drive etc. This method also works when comparing german vehicle brands, for example AUDI vs. BMW… it's normal

ZL1 performance is absolutely phenomenal:

It's still American made junk. It can be the fastest car on the road but the quality of the car is American trash. I would drive a e36 better then this junk.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Roma_335i

It's still American made junk. It can be the fastest car on the road but the quality of the car is American trash. I would drive a e36 better then this junk.

Ooh, that magical property that exists in our head!

[AtlasM]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

And how exactly is the interior fancier on an M3?

Many comments in this thread are "the ZL1 should have a nicer interior for $65k." I said the ZL1 doesn't need to have a fancier interior than it does. I never compared it to an M3. Your question doesn't make any sense.

I don't know if you're trolling, or you've confused me with the other people in this thread who are talking negatively about the ZL1 when I'm defending it, or just dense, but whatever.

[yousefnjr]

Originally Posted by Roma_335i

It's still American made junk. It can be the fastest car on the road but the quality of the car is American trash. I would drive a e36 better then this junk.

Not everything can be the hallmark of reliability that is the 335i

[kprocivic]

Originally Posted by Roma_335i

It's still American made junk. It can be the fastest car on the road but the quality of the car is American trash. I would drive a e36 better then this junk.

speaking straight out of your a$$ I see.

[Motorsportenterprise]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

And how exactly is the interior fancier on an M3?

It's not.

[AtlasM]

Originally Posted by kprocivic

speaking straight out of your a$$ I see.

Hey, at least he's consistent in knocking cars of both American and Italian descent.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by yousefnjr

Not everything can be the hallmark of reliability that is the 335i

Exactly my thought. Especially if it's an N54.

[kprocivic]

e36 and reliability in the same sentence. lol

[RM7]

Originally Posted by yousefnjr

Not everything can be the hallmark of reliability that is the 335i

#highpressurefuelpump

The thing is, if the reviews are objective, that's great. If it's just someone's bias, then they know where they can stick that. If it's "well, this part doesn't fit into this part, but it should, see the picture", great. Maybe it's advertised as one thing, but close inspection shows it's fake. Or maybe something that is supposed to be round isn't round, or something fell off, tolerances are off, and so on. These days we have so much more information, so much ability to take pictures, video and measurements, there shouldn't be much room for biased BS. If someone is going to say "the interior is crap", there should be some pretty sound reasoning and evidence, not just the perception that because it came from a certain country, it must be bad.

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

these cars are more common than camrys in south beach miami. second only to mustangs. ignorant ass drivers revving the shit out of them. i got so tired of it

[pz619]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

And how exactly is the interior fancier on an M3?

Have you been in both? I don't think the M3 is worlds better but the interior was nicer to my eyes. The materials aren't as high grade, the buttons feel cheap, and it's clear this started out as a much cheaper car. I personally hate alcantara so that was a huge negative to me as well.

My local dealer didn't have a ZL1 available but I did drive the SS. Honestly I wasn't super impressed but maybe a drive in the ZL1 will change my mind.

[RM7]

How do buttons "feel cheap"?

[pz619]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

How do buttons "feel cheap"?

I'm not going to hold your hand through this. Either you understand what I'm talking about or you don't. No amount of explaining this over the internet is going to make it click.

[Vigilante375]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

How do buttons "feel cheap"?

Because they are either plastic or have rubber coating on them like BMW does to make them not feel cheap.....even though they are just pieces of plastic with rubber coating on it.

Anything else you'd like to question? Maybe what the difference between a performance car and luxury car that tries to be a performance car is?

[Mingwan]

Not sure why people are arguing with a guy who thinks theres absolutely nothing wrong with the level of visibility in a Camaro...

I would definitely consider buying one in the future though as a 'fun' car.

[Mingwan]

Originally Posted by pz619

I'm not going to hold your hand through this. Either you understand what I'm talking about or you don't. No amount of explaining this over the internet is going to make it click.

I would've said something like the materials are generally of better quality. Any parts made of the same material tend to use cheaper processes to produce the parts.

But I'm sure the follow up would've been, 'but how?'

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Mingwan

Not sure why people are arguing with a guy who thinks theres absolutely nothing wrong with the level of visibility in a Camaro...

I would definitely consider buying one in the future though as a 'fun' car.

Hmm, my I-drive knob has a slight amount of play in it and it has rubber on the outside, instead of metal like on the climate control knobs in my camaro. So is it too, "cheap"?

I don't disagree that the visibility is poor. Compounding the matter is most americans have no idea how to actually set up SIDE view mirrors, but the rear visibility is actually almost exactly the same as my 4GC. the sloping rear windshield on the GC provides a tiny rear-viewing area.

Here is a sports-car I designed so you can have econo-box visibility. Obviously with low rooflines and raked windshields, something does give. Also getting in and out of sports cars can be a challenge. You may want something different: