[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by BroDoze

I can’t talk. I was cross-shopping Zupras and BRZs. What made that a short-lived exercise was the unavailability (BRZ) and unwillingness (Shityota) for any sort of test drives. Cash buyer can’t take your used Zupra for a spin, and you’re threatening ADM in mid-2024? F you Toyota!
Never even visited a VAG dealer though. Not my thing.

i have told the story too many times so i wont repeat it in full, but my GR-C experience also swore me off a new toyota for life.

[ajchoi]

Originally Posted by two_three_two

i have told the story too many times so i wont repeat it in full, but my GR-C experience also swore me off a new toyota for life.

I was cross shopping that with M2 and Integra Type S because I wanted something fun and manual. Toyota will never see a dime from me after trying to convince me it was a good idea to pay the same price I paid for the M2 for a base GRC.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by two_three_two

i have told the story too many times so i wont repeat it in full, but my GR-C experience also swore me off a new toyota for life.

I thought the GR-C was a hoot to drive. Your bad story was business stuff, not the car itself, right?

[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by ajchoi

I was cross shopping that with M2 and Integra Type S because I wanted something fun and manual. Toyota will never see a dime from me after trying to convince me it was a good idea to pay the same price I paid for the M2 for a base GRC.

yeah, i did exactly the same thing more or less. they don't care, they will sell every example they can produce to someone with more money than sense.

Originally Posted by Squidget

I thought the GR-C was a hoot to drive. Your bad story was business stuff, not the car itself, right?

correct. TLDR price magically got jacked up $10,000 by moving the ask up $5k and then sandbagging my trade by $5k after giving me a verbal price (and i drove a different car there so they couldnt even reasonably say it was because we saw the car and it needs XYZ). finance guy then tried to cry foul that i was "blowing up" the deal over a "measly 5k spread"

although there have been some scary stories of people blowing those motors up stock recently.

[reallymarkedup]

Originally Posted by two_three_two

although there have been some scary stories of people blowing those motors up stock recently.

You can blow any engine up if you treat it poorly enough and I'd hazard there's a sizeable overlap between people shopping the GR and people who think the road is a racetrack.

[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by reallymarkedup

You can blow any engine up if you treat it poorly enough and I'd hazard there's a sizeable overlap between people shopping the GR and people who think the road is a racetrack.

i reckon you are right, and to my knowledge toyota has been warrantying the ones that have ate it so far. time will tell if this is a small but vocal group or indicative of a larger trend.

and to be fair, its a very difficult car to not flog the ever loving shit out of on every empty backroad you find, which was certainly part of the appeal for me, but i felt it was too much of a one trick pony for a 52k (!!) ask...

[ajchoi]

Originally Posted by two_three_two

i reckon you are right, and to my knowledge toyota has been warrantying the ones that have ate it so far. time will tell if this is a small but vocal group or indicative of a larger trend.

and to be fair, its a very difficult car to not flog the ever loving shit out of on every empty backroad you find, which was certainly part of the appeal for me, but i felt it was too much of a one trick pony for a 52k (!!) ask...

Y'all ever have these dealers call you back months later with another one they want to sell for way cheaper? I had that happen with a couple different cars - the GRC and also sort of an 8Y RS3.

The latter I had a deposit and an order out there and they kept delaying putting it in since it was late 2021 and they agreed in writing to MSRP. So instead they just kept ordering and selling allocations that didn't match my spec for 10-20k over MSRP to whomever was willing to do that. If I order a more rare car again, I'm also getting a timeframe in writing too. I couldn't really call them out when I didn't have a set deadline in writing lol.

Anyway, earlier this year - over 2 years later - they apparently put my order in and asked if I still want it. Then for some reason it sat on lot for a good month. I was tempted, but turned off by that situation after 3 Audi purchases so I went to this G87

[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by ajchoi

Y'all ever have these dealers call you back months later with another one they want to sell for way cheaper?

yes, a lot of this going on. its just starting for me with the ITS- dealers i called to feel out the ADM situation are texting me asking if i am still interested a year later. lol

[captain slowly]

Originally Posted by robopp

RS3 and M2 are direct competitors. Your analogy doesn’t make any sense. What about an M2 is so different than an RS3 that you would think RS3:M2::Miata:Type R?

How so? One is a RWD coupe, the other a 4 door FWD biased AWD with the engine hanging over the front wheels. Having owned a F87 and an 8Y, they couldn't be more different in pretty much every department, from power delivery, driving dynamics, practicality and so on.

[M_Power Rob]

Originally Posted by captain slowly

How so? One is a RWD coupe, the other a 4 door FWD biased AWD with the engine hanging over the front wheels. Having owned a F87 and an 8Y, they couldn't be more different in pretty much every department, from power delivery, driving dynamics, practicality and so on.

Not saying I agree or disagree, but what are your direct comparisons to the G87?

[robopp]

Originally Posted by captain slowly

How so? One is a RWD coupe, the other a 4 door FWD biased AWD with the engine hanging over the front wheels. Having owned a F87 and an 8Y, they couldn't be more different in pretty much every department, from power delivery, driving dynamics, practicality and so on.

Price, power, sports cars (RS vs M), luxury, etc.

[captain slowly]

Originally Posted by M_Power Rob

Not saying I agree or disagree, but what are your direct comparisons to the G87?

Supra, Camaro, Mustang, the new Z. All RWD, relatively high powered and not all that practical.

[captain slowly]

Originally Posted by robopp

Price, power, sports cars (RS vs M), luxury, etc.

So using your logic, so is a Corvette Stingray, MB CLE, S5 and basically anything sporty?

[M_Power Rob]

Originally Posted by captain slowly

Supra, Camaro, Mustang, the new Z. All RWD, relatively high powered and not all that practical.

IMO, I would put the Z and Supra together but not really in the same class as the G87 (weight, 2 seaters...and are we considering base price as a comparison?).

I agree to the Mustang. Camaro, not so much (which model and they are going by the wayside). I don't even know what MB will have that is 2 door and in same power class (which them going to hybrids). From Audi, you only have the S5/RS5 that is the coupe.

[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by captain slowly

So using your logic, so is a Corvette Stingray, MB CLE, S5 and basically anything sporty?

i think you are using different criteria to evaluate competition. the mission of the M2 is basically the same as the RS3 even if on paper they are much different. its an upscale, powerful, daily drive-able compact sedan in the 65-80k price bracket. don't focus on door count, but rather adult sized seats in the car. that's why these cars are direct competitors.

that being said, the use case for the M2 is vast- owners usage represents a much larger delta than the average new car. on the one hand, you have people like me who cross shopped the remaining 6 speed hot hatches and intended to use the G87 as a full daily (mine even comes skiing), and then on the other end of the spectrum you have folks turning them into trailer queen show cars and track day specials right from the showroom floor- these folks were probably cross shopping new Z06s, CPO 911s, ZL1s, GT500s, etc

[captain slowly]

Originally Posted by two_three_two

i think you are using different criteria to evaluate competition. the mission of the M2 is basically the same as the RS3 even if on paper they are much different. its an upscale, powerful, daily drive-able compact sedan in the 65-80k price bracket. don't focus on door count, but rather adult sized seats in the car. that's why these cars are direct competitors.

that being said, the use case for the M2 is vast- owners usage represents a much larger delta than the average new car. on the one hand, you have people like me who cross shopped the remaining 6 speed hot hatches and intended to use the G87 as a full daily (mine even comes skiing), and then on the other end of the spectrum you have folks turning them into trailer queen show cars and track day specials right from the showroom floor- these folks were probably cross shopping new Z06s, CPO 911s, ZL1s, GT500s, etc

I don't think I'm using different criteria, but opinions will vary. My F87 was a completely different experience than my 8Y with a very different mission, IMO. It's apples and oranges. Yes, they may cost around the same but they're very different.

[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by captain slowly

I don't think I'm using different criteria, but opinions will vary. My F87 was a completely different experience than my 8Y with a very different mission, IMO. It's apples and oranges. Yes, they may cost around the same but they're very different.

agree to disagree. many here have cross shopped them.

[M_Power Rob]

Originally Posted by two_three_two

agree to disagree. many here have cross shopped them.

Yeah, but many here claimed to have cross shopped the G87 and a 911 (all variants).

[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by M_Power Rob

Yeah, but many here claimed to have cross shopped the G87 and a 911 (all variants).

why is that so hard to believe? im not a pooooourcsha guy, but i can believe that some people cross shopped CPO 911s vs new M2.

[M_Power Rob]

Originally Posted by two_three_two

why is that so hard to believe? im not a pooooourcsha guy, but i can believe that some people cross shopped CPO 911s vs new M2.

Sorry, I should have clarified to "new" 911s. Many CPOs are will north of $100k (eliminating base models) which make it difficult to fathom cross shopping a car with a price difference of say $50k plus.

Nothing against Por-sha but I would spend the money just to drive the name and logo. Would never consider owning a Boxster or 718...and the 911 I would settle on (ok, poor choice of words) is well out of my price range (considering the cost of the car and mods I would want to add).

[buckybadger]

Don’t race! Avoid at all costs. It’s too dangerous for the public.

It’s an M2 after all. If you need brute force you need an M3/M4 AWD. That thing will smoke almost anything out there.

[ajchoi]

Originally Posted by captain slowly

I don't think I'm using different criteria, but opinions will vary. My F87 was a completely different experience than my 8Y with a very different mission, IMO. It's apples and oranges. Yes, they may cost around the same but they're very different.

You’ve had the luxury of owning both. Keep in mind people are cross shopping them as fairly similar sized vehicle with a legendary badge and sporty driving dynamics. I actively cross shopped these cars at some point. So there’s clearly people out there that do based on how they view both these cars. Just saying, the argument against that is literally also a personal preference. Carrying on over here as I don’t think it matters one way or another anyway lol