[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by minn19

GuidoK, here comes the “guys.”

that is "a" guy.
Members here are individuals.
If you can only think in groups, you can only generalize.
That says a lot about you or your thought process, not being able to distinguish between individuals in a discussion.

It's also strange that you say:

Not a huge Lewis guy, but at least he never needed a race rigged for him to win any of his WDCs.

Where Hamilton and Alonso drove for mcLaren in 2007. And McLaren was that year involved in the biggest scam in F1 (stepneygate)
All of McLaren points were nulled, they had to pay a $100 million fine, but Hamilton and Alonso got to keep their points in return for collaborating in the investigation, meaning that they more or less knew what was going on (otherwise there isn't much to collaborate on).
I don't think Verstappen knows what's going on in accounting at RB, especially if it's over these small amounts.
So there is that about Hamilton....
Luckily Raikkönen won that years WDC.

And if you're not a huge Lewis guy, how come you only come out when there is something to say about Lewis?

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

that is "a" guy.
Members here are individuals.
If you can only think in groups, you can only generalize.
That says a lot about you or your thought process, not being able to distinguish between individuals in a discussion.

It's also strange that you say:

Where Hamilton and Alonso drove for mcLaren in 2007. And McLaren was that year involved in the biggest scam in F1 (stepneygate)
All of McLaren points were nulled, they had to pay a $100 million fine, but Hamilton and Alonso got to keep their points in return for collaborating in the investigation, meaning that they more or less knew what was going on (otherwise there isn't much to collaborate on).
I don't think Verstappen knows what's going on in accounting at RB, especially if it's over these small amounts.
So there is that about Hamilton....
And if you're not a huge Lewis guy, how come you only come out when there is something to say about Lewis?

Well said. The asterisk should be as big as the Eiffel Tower on Ham’s first sham WDC. If you’re going to say it about Max for something minor like some non R&D spend or what Masi may have done or didn’t (which RB had no impact on) then Ham knowing they were cheating is something different and severe if you ask me.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

that is "a" guy.
Members here are individuals.
If you can only think in groups, you can only generalize.
That says a lot about you or your thought process, not being able to distinguish between individuals in a discussion.

It's also strange that you say:

Where Hamilton and Alonso drove for mcLaren in 2007. And McLaren was that year involved in the biggest scam in F1 (stepneygate)
All of McLaren points were nulled, they had to pay a $100 million fine, but Hamilton and Alonso got to keep their points in return for collaborating in the investigation, meaning that they more or less knew what was going on (otherwise there isn't much to collaborate on).
I don't think Verstappen knows what's going on in accounting at RB, especially if it's over these small amounts.
So there is that about Hamilton....
Luckily Raikkönen won that years WDC.

And if you're not a huge Lewis guy, how come you only come out when there is something to say about Lewis?

Again, you take things way too personal with me while not bringing anything up about anyone else and how they generalize all HAM fans or others here etc etc. Think about what that says about you for once.

You win tough guy, not taking the bait.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by minn19

Again, you take things way too personal with me

I don't take it personal, I look at what phrasing you use in your posts.
I've seen more than once you quoting a member by means of a group generalization.

When you quote someone, you're addressing a member, an individual.
Not a group

[minn19]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

I don't take it personal, I look at what phrasing you use in your posts.
I've seen more than once you quoting a member by means of a group generalization.

When you quote someone, you're addressing a member, an individual.
Not a group

If you are going to be the sudo F1 section mod/police for behavior etc, then do it for everyone. I’ve watched a specific crew run a bunch of people out of here for years that don’t adhere to the Max/RB is infallible. Yet you stay silent and jump me every single time. It’s the same pattern over and over and it’s gotten old. It won’t work with me.

[MontyB1]

Originally Posted by minn19

Again, you take things way too personal with me while not bringing anything up about anyone else and how they generalize all HAM fans or others here etc etc. Think about what that says about you for once.

You win tough guy, not taking the bait.

You have to realise as others have that significant percentage of people in the F1 forums are pro max and seem to act as a group of bullies, facts aren't important only baseless opinions.

Superfast Merc - rocketship cheating engine car only drive does nothing they have no talent
Superfast RBR - Driver incredible can never do any wrong, car good no mention of engine. Repeat.
Ferrari - well we all point the finger and laugh here its the only thing we agree on.

I'm being equally myopic, but so many people come and go in these forums due to the mob mentality its crazy and they no longer participate which is a shame. There is very very little to no mods that seem to work in this area which is a shame. They do remove super aggressive posts but then don't state that people need to get on aggressive posts won't be tolerated. They should.

Anyway - still no RBR accounts posted, funny they haven't had any issues for the past 5+ years getting them in on time - only this year, still funny that don't you think...!!

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by minn19

If you are going to be the sudo F1 section mod/police for behavior etc, then do it for everyone.

You are the only one in this topic to display this behaviour.
No one else in this topic has quoted a member and addressed that member as if he/she was a group.

Putting yourself in a victim role doesn't change that.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

You are the only one in this topic to display this behaviour.

Then you are willfully ignoring other posts. One specifically said all HAM fans are the same. Keep those blinders on, have a nice day GuidoK.

[Artemis]

To all, take it easy.

None of us has access to all info made available to FIA and the teams. Feel free to speculate, but refrain from emotionally jumping into conclusions too quickly.

Between civilized citizens, rights of defense are respected. If someone personally blames you about something you consider to be without merit, it's the right thing that you are allowed to defend your position, to firmly stand your ground and to ensure that your point of view is genuinely taken into consideration for the decision-making. Do not let a badly informed, stirred up 'torch and pitchfork crowd' serve its 'mob justice' - otherwise the situation may end up badly for you, without grounds according to you.

If a final ruling (after exhausting possible appeals) concludes to a violation of applicable FIA rules by a team, penalties provided by the FIA rules should be imposed. If a final ruling concludes to no violation of applicable FIA rules, no penalties provided by the rules should be imposed.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by minn19

One specifically said all HAM fans are the same.

That is different.
That is not addressing 1 person as a group. It is a general remark.
Too bad you don't see that distinction, while playing the victim.

You too have a nice day.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

That is different.
That is not addressing 1 person as a group.
Too bad you don't see that distinction.

I look forward to you modding/policing others behavior in the future here. Thanks for keeping this sub forum running so smoothly!

Getting back to the topic at hand. As I addressed another member the past doesn’t matter with the topic at hand. I think nearly everyone at FIA has different personal than during the HAM/ALO McLaren era. Also much different rules now etc.

1. When all the facts come out RB should penalized appropriately.

2. If Toto got insider information, which it certainly looks like he did, but we don’t know from whom. That should also definitely be penalized appropriately.

All are separate topics and should be dealt with as such. Big picture though, FIA continues to lose credibility with how last year ended and with how this is going down in the majority of public perception. Right or wrong, dunno?

[Artemis]

...and please also refrain from the ad hominem fallacy of 'guilt by association'.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by MontyB1

Superfast Merc - rocketship cheating engine car only drive does nothing they have no talent
Superfast RBR - Driver incredible can never do any wrong, car good no mention of engine. Repeat.
Ferrari - well we all point the finger and laugh here its the only thing we agree on.

You're forgetting another one that dominated the forums for a while: "it's the driver, not the car"...

[minn19]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

You're forgetting another one that dominated the forums for a while: "it's the driver, not the car"...

And many of us pushed back on that saying it was both. Max and Lewis have both demonstrated that against their respective teammates.

[Killed by Death]

[Steeler]

Originally Posted by Killed by Death

Appreciate the comic relief.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by Steeler

Appreciate the comic relief.

That is funny. Killed by Death, got one for Ferrari jet mode?

[Killed by Death]

Originally Posted by minn19

That is funny. Killed by Death, got one for Ferrari jet mode?

No doubt

[minn19]

Originally Posted by Killed by Death

No doubt

Sure you go to THE jet!

[MontyB1]

Interesting views from Zak Brown. As far as he is concerned the FIA was clear if you weren’t sure on anything you need to ask! Seems RBR was happy to just cheat and hope for the best as they don’t seem to have asked for any clarification just tried hope. Seems not to have worked.

Brown Holds teams responsible for breaching cost cap, FIA have been clear.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

You're forgetting another one that dominated the forums for a while: "it's the driver, not the car"...

Sadly , he disappeared completely just like HAM did during the winter break . We all know why , the HAM/Mercedes dominance was/is broken through by a driver and not the car .

Honestly ,I really miss him...

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Sadly , he disappeared completely just like HAM did during the winter break . We all know why , the HAM/Mercedes dominance was/is broken through by a driver and not the car .

Honestly ,I really miss him...

I think, speaking in generalities the driver is usually at least 50% of the equation, maybe 60-70% at most because the car still needs to be quick and capable. I would say last year, Max’s level was likely that of 70% as he drove the heck out of that car. This year, I think the car is a bit better and he is maybe only 60%.
As for Alonso in the Alpine, likely at the higher end since that car is able to give H all sorts of trouble if Alonso wants.
Now the MB this year is quite fast as Rus has shown it can be (though many placements have had DNF luck for him). Ham, I think his MB during the initial hybrid eta was likely 70% car - and I say this because Rus just got in one day and if not for a puncture would have won with relative ease. You put Max in that MB and he would I think have wiped the floor with Ham every year. Ham is a good driver but his overinflated stats are akin to Mark McGuire or Barry Bonds to me.