[JustinHEMI]

Originally Posted by StickyPickle

The people who don’t think the G87 looks good to them and are getting upset at other people who do like it are fuccing weirdos

It is very weird. Does it happen all over this forum? I mean, I for one, don't go to other forums about cars I don't have nor am interested in. Why do they do it here?

I think the XM is stupid. Shall I head to that forum and dwell on the fact that there's people that like it?


They're attention seeking weirdos. Nothing more.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by E63M6_G42M240i

Lol some Russian dudes opinion is evidence of the majority of car enthusiasts/media? Lol. Do I really need to pull up the countless references of this car looking like a dogs ass? Don’t waste my time. Anyone with two eyeballs that looks at that e63 m6 in that article and compares it with that g87 legoland monstrosity knows which one looks nicer… oh and one has a normally aspirated 550+ horsepower 8,600 rpm built v10 (at least mine does) one of the best sounding engines ever. Gtfoh 🤡

I think the E63 M6 looks awkward and weird... but I haven't driven it yet. What we all seem to forget is that aesthetic visual interpretation is an emotional reaction which is also heavily influenced by the other senses. For example, a plate of spaghetti is not particularly beautiful, but if you love the smell and taste of spaghetti, then the sight of the dish brings about a positive emotional response. Same for cars. If a heinous car drives like a dream and makes your pulse pound faster, then the sight of that car will bring about a positive emotional response.

In the case of your E63 M6, you love how it sounds and drives. I think it's ugly, but since I haven't had a positive visceral experience with the car, I can't appreciate it and can only judge on how it looks. I think the F13 is a much better looking M6, especially with the with the rear and improved headlights. Maybe if I drove them back to back that opinion might change.

[JJacksonIII]

Originally Posted by dezzracer

Oh man o man. This is is getting good on the looks of the G87. There is some funny Sh!t being said here lol. I kinda sort of like it and I’m 64. So much for it being a younger generation design I guess. Still don’t like the G80/82 grills tho. And believe me I’ve tried. Good thing the next BMW on my list is an M8 with stonkin V8.

I'm jealous! M8 and B8 are the best looking BMWs around. Classic front end. Still looks traditionally aggressive, if that makes sense.

[imperfectluck]

Historically I can’t recall if the E92 -> F8x transition was this controversial. Granted we on the forums are a very small subset, I don’t think there was any other generational transition as widely heated as this one. Performance wise we all know BMW does their homework before it comes to production so I really find it’s an emotional battle of design language. I’ve had friends that love the performance of the G8x platform, some have stayed as they grew to like the design over time, others shifted to Porsche for the design and performance.

It’s okay to let others like what they like. We’ve had enthusiasts that left the F8x platform to go back to the E90/92 and that’s fine.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by DFW_M

I am not sure what "distraction" you are talking about.
Driving a manual becomes a part of the driving experience, not a thought process, not a distraction.
It is like saying, I'd rather be pushed in a wheelchair around town than constantly being distracted thinking which foot is next, while walking.

After 35 years of driving manuals, I am definitely not distracted by shifting to the next gear or have not thought about -- hmmm, what gear I am in or should shift to - comes naturally...

That analogy is terrible and I'm not touching it.

If you are one with your shifting, congratulations on your zen, but not everyone is like you. You can drive an AT for a variety of reasons and still be doing "real driving." That's all I'm saying.

[TractionControlDelete]

Originally Posted by jmg

Why would I base my tastes on the majority opinion, no matter how overwhelming? I love my G82 btw, I bet if you poll G80/G82 owners it would skew towards liking it. I don't want to hold a candle next to the F80, I've had two of them. I like that it's different, and honestly I can't wait for this cynical fad to die so people can be more willing to enjoy something they felt they couldn't before because of majority opinion.

I heard a really good analogy regarding majority opinions versus subjective preference on the Smoking Tire podcast one time. In essence, it went like this:

***Plenty of people love automatic transmissions, whether ZF, PDK, DCT, and there are tons of objective reasons that make them “better.” But I still prefer the manual transmission. Just because someone can write a PhD dissertation on why I should be attracted to men, no matter how well supported, it still will not change my sexual preference for women. And so, I’m sticking with the third pedal.***

I bring this up because it seems that some folks just can’t understand that people can have different tastes when it comes to cars looks, driving experience, transmission, etc.

[JJacksonIII]

Originally Posted by JustinHEMI

It is very weird. Does it happen all over this forum? I mean, I for one, don't go to other forums about cars I don't have nor am interested in. Why do they do it here?

I think the XM is stupid. Shall I head to that forum and dwell on the fact that there's people that like it?


They're attention seeking weirdos. Nothing more.

Unfortunately I think it's worse than that. They buy a 2022 M2 and HAVE to explain to anyone listening (or not listening) why their car is better. Happens on every forum here. The X7 Pre-LCI peeps can't stand hearing about anything that BMW may have improved upon in the LCI. They first start by ripping on it's looks, then reinforce some narrative that their vehicle was the last, great one produced. It's all downhill from here, for ever and ever. It's basic insecurity and I don't get it. All of us will be shopping for a newer, better vehicle in the future, so why not admire the improvements BMW makes from year to year? These same whiners' next purchase will probably be even more radical than the 23 models. But then it will be the best decision anyone could ever make. And anyone who buys the next following year's model will be a fool again.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by imperfectluck

Historically I can’t recall if the E92 -> F8x transition was this controversial.

Fuck yeah it was.

I think this kind argument is dumb, has always been dumb, and I wish people would stop getting mad about what people like or don't like. IT IS NOT WORTH TALKING ABOUT.

I don't get mad about what you like, I don't care if you get mad about what I like (that's just weird lol), I have no need to prove or disprove what the crowd likes. I'm here to talk about cars.

Alas, this is the internet.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by dezzracer

Yea… this has been an entertaining thread. Some hilarious comments regarding the looks of the G87. .

Regarding the transmission comments I get the attraction to a manual. I’ve had many, but man I love a DCT. Yea yea yea.. the new “cheaper” ZF is a fantastic and fast shifting auto. But I’ll give up some smoothness for the rawness, toughness, mechanical noises, and just hard core feel of a DCT. I wish BMW had not made the switch.

Loss of the DCT was a crying shame, no doubt.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by Blue Angel

How old are you? Just curious.

A lot older than 10. Let's just say I came of age in the previous century, and leave it at that.

I've had the pleasure of driving vehicles without synchros... double-clutching is super weird.

[Yorick123]

Yes or no?

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by Yorick123

Yes or no?

If your car has modern synchros, double clutching does more harm than good.

If you are driving an old car without sychros (or a truck with multiple reverse gears), it's a good idea to double clutch.

[TractionControlDelete]

Originally Posted by Yorick123

Yes or no?

Owner of the following cars, checking in:

5MT E30 325
SMG E46 M3
DCT E92 M3
6MT F82 M4

I find the DCT as my favorite car to daily because I get a break from being completely involved. The 6MT in the M4 is involved but at the same time it does a lot of the work for you - the car rev matches downshifts and is damn-near impossible to stall. The E30 5MT is all involvement all the time. And the E46 SMG might as well me stick shift because I still have to lift on upshifts and rev-match on downshifts. I could drive with the DCT all year and in all traffic conditions without a worry in the world - I love it for daily use because I can always get involved to have a great time when I’m ready.

[AlpineBoost]

Originally Posted by Covfefe

The fact that we are still bickering so much about the design after the better part of a year tells you that BMW did not hit a home run with the G87. Good design does NOT get reactions like this from car guys.

It's dumbfounding to witness the biggest G87 design fanboys ignore the overwhelming majority of the car community's opinion because some random guy at Kroger gave a thumbs up. It's just delusional.

The G87, while a step in the right direction from the G82 "Bucktooth Mustang" M4, doesn't hold a candle to the F80, F87, or F90. I don't care how many thumbs up you get from people who just walked out of LASIK surgery.

Ironic that you're ignoring and exaggerating real world experiences to fit your narrative. Talk about delusional. Few people, if any, are saying that you have to like the design of the G87 or that it's an objectively good looking car. There are however many people here that speak as if it is factually horrendous.

I'll give you that most people that have negative things to say about the appearance of something will likely keep it to themselves in person, so you'll only hear compliments or nothing at all. I just don't buy that internet "experts" on car forums, YouTube, etc. speak for the entire population on nearly anything, let alone how something looks.

[Humdizzle]

i've had a number of dct cars from different companies (bmw, ferrari, nissan) and tried vag group dct cars with pdk and the r8/huracan/tt-rs. its fine to daily drive. you just need to remember in your head it is a manual trans: you will feel the clutch slip from a standing start. you need to feather it out until you feel the clutch grab and then you know its in gear.

the zf8 i had in the f30 335i and also tried in the new supra. it is nowhere near as sharp. just popping off downshifts coming up to a stop light it feels lazy and lurches into gears. the dct feels like a well executed/quick heel-toe downshift.

As for people who are nagging on looks. Its fine. People have a right to speak up if they feel bmw dropped the ball. how else is bmw going to get the memo that they screwed up (imo) and change things? People shit on porsche for dropping the manual from the gt3, and they brought it back. I was one of them, once they brought it back i sold my 458 and bought a manual gt3.

[baron95]

Originally Posted by jmg

Manual:

If you like the mechanical simplicity of a manual.

I keep reading this, but my take is different.

The AT, specially the ZF8, is a bullet proof unit, ***AND*** is under full factory warranty for 4-10 years depending on manufacturer (power train warranty).

Manuals these days tend to have more problems - I own a Jeep and there is a massive recall on ALL the manuals with exploding pressure plates setting the vehicles on fire. Many other issues with other manuals.

But the number one issue is that the clutch is a wear item, not under warranty. If you track the car, the clutch will be on you when it goes. And it is an expensive repair for an M car.

So, I'd say that mechanically, the auto these days is ahead.

[baron95]

Originally Posted by Covfefe

The fact that we are still bickering so much about the design after the better part of a year tells you that BMW did not hit a home run with the G87. Good design does NOT get reactions like this from car guys.

LOL

I think the opposite. BMW got more people talking about their M3/M4, and now M2, designs in the G-generation than ever before.

A good design elicits strong opinions.

A new Camry is not offensive. But no one talks about it's design.

Have you seen the dresses that women wore for the [MOMA] MET gala? It is all about being polarizing and provocative.

You may not agree with BMW's desire to be provocative. But that is what they are going for. In that sense, they hit it out of the ball park.

Get used to it. There will be a lot more to come from top brands. Bland is out. Provocative is in.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by baron95

So, I'd say that mechanically, the auto these days is ahead.

This may be totally true. But my point is that it doesn't really matter to anyone here, not really.

C'mon people, we are talking about luxury sports cars, cars that a lot of us will be tuning.

Do any of us REALLY care about, say, an extra 5% chance of failure over the span of 10 years? Be honest. I sure don't. If I did, I'd buy a Camry.

[Covfefe]

Originally Posted by jmg

I bet if you poll G80/G82 owners it would skew towards liking it.

Well, duh. They bought the car. What's your point? As respectfully as I can say it, I think the G82 is a disaster from every angle. Even with the same grille, the G80 looks miles better. I like the G87 better than either of them, but not as much as the F-series cars.

Originally Posted by AlpineBoost

Ironic that you're ignoring and exaggerating real world experiences to fit your narrative. Talk about delusional.

Nothing delusional about ignoring anecdotes from a couple forum members getting an occasional thumbs up. How many people don't like it but don't give a thumbs down (as you mentioned)? How many people give a thumbs up because they know what the car is, even if they don't like the way it looks?

If you look for opinions regarding the G87's looks online, you will find overwhelmingly negative responses when people are asked to give their opinion. Occasional thumbs up in person doesn't come close to mitigating that fact.

Originally Posted by baron95

LOL
I think the opposite. BMW got more people talking about their M3/M4, and now M2, designs in the G-generation than ever before.
[/B]

All publicity is not good publicity in the car world. I would bet a pretty penny that more people have passed over the G80/82/87 than bought it because of the looks. Can you imagine anyone saying "I just HAVE to have that grille!!" because I can't, but I know the opposite has happened.

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by Squidget

That analogy is terrible and I'm not touching it.

If you are one with your shifting, congratulations on your zen, but not everyone is like you. You can drive an AT for a variety of reasons and still be doing "real driving." That's all I'm saying.

I am not saying one over the other.
I am saying that if you really know your manual, you should not be “distracted” by doing it - it is completely natural just like walking. Some have argued that previous F87 should have current gear displayed, my argument was that it should be natural (hence like walking and no one needs to tell you what is the next foot you need to use) and I absolutely had no need for it in many years…

[TractionControlDelete]

Originally Posted by DFW_M

I am not saying one over the other.
I am saying that if you really know your manual, you should not be “distracted” by doing it - it is completely natural just like walking. Some have argued that previous F87 should have current gear displayed, my argument was that it should be natural (hence like walking and no one needs to tell you what is the next foot you need to use) and I absolutely had no need for it in many years…

I get what you’re saying. Honestly, this is why I don’t like manual shifters that are too nothcy (another one of those personal preference things lol). I prefer the smoothness of the BMW ones because it makes shifting disappear - especially at speed on track. I have a chassis mounted shifter for my E36 that requires too deliberate of a throw meanwhile the F82 is just right for me.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by Covfefe

All publicity is not good publicity in the car world. I would bet a pretty penny that more people have passed over the G80/82/87 than bought it because of the looks. Can you imagine anyone saying "I just HAVE to have that grille!!" because I can't, but I know the opposite has happened.

My point is not everyone has the same taste and something as subjective as aesthetics doesn’t value one opinion over another simple because more people share it.