[AndreM2]

I did lots of research and test drives to. I passed on the new M2.

Friend of mine bought also GR86 next to his M2c to be used on trackdays. He loved the lightweight feeling more then the 411hp.

Other friend bought a secondhand cayman GT4 today next to his BMW. Will use it on track.

Most Track-day drivers choose no new bmw anymore. Where in the early days al my friends choose bmw M cars over all other brands.
See all the old BMW used on the Nurburgring! Those are the image makers.

I know bmw m are not weekend sports cars. But what they have build now and then say like Harris we should accept this in this time era is the easy way.

There are still cars to buy that give more driving fun then a 1700kg heavyweight. Buy secondhand. Try other brands. Put off your BMW glasses.

Be critical don’t accept a 1700kg M car. Let BMW know the HP war is over. Build us a new 1m coupe with a 4 cil with 320hp and under 1400kg. They can do it. But as long we car enthusiasts buy everything they throw at us nothing will happen. We only get an entry level M car the size of an old 5 series to carry 1700kg around!

[CodeSlinger]

Originally Posted by AndreM2

I did lots of research and test drives to. I passed on the new M2.

Friend of mine bought also GR86 next to his M2c to be used on trackdays. He loved the lightweight feeling more then the 411hp.

Other friend bought a secondhand cayman GT4 today next to his BMW. Will use it on track.

Most Track-day drivers choose no new bmw anymore. Where in the early days al my friends choose bmw M cars over all other brands.
See all the old BMW used on the Nurburgring! Those are the image makers.

I know bmw m are not weekend sports cars. But what they have build now and then say like Harris we should accept this in this time era is the easy way.

There are still cars to buy that give more driving fun then a 1700kg heavyweight. Buy secondhand. Try other brands. Put off your BMW glasses.

Be critical don’t accept a 1700kg M car. Let BMW know the HP war is over. Build us a new 1m coupe with a 4 cil with 320hp and under 1400kg. They can do it. But as long we car enthusiasts buy everything they throw at us nothing will happen. We only get an entry level M car the size of an old 5 series to carry 1700kg around!

I would wager that the vast majority of people would be supremely disappointed at a 4cyl/320hp M car, even if it was 1400kg. If that's what you want then BMW hasn't offered that for years, hell even the 1m was more powerful and weighted more.

BMW M promises a luxurious, comfortable daily drivable car that's able to fight above it's class on the track, that's what it has been for years now. You can keep asking for a light drivers car but that's sure as hell are not going to be built by BMW for $62k with 4 seats and leather seats.

Used cars are available that may be lighter and more fun around a track but they won't be nearly as usable on a daily basis, plus they very well might cost you $10k+ when their legendary older power plant shits the bed outside of warranty.

[fcman]

Originally Posted by AndreM2

I did lots of research and test drives to. I passed on the new M2.

Friend of mine bought also GR86 next to his M2c to be used on trackdays. He loved the lightweight feeling more then the 411hp.

Other friend bought a secondhand cayman GT4 today next to his BMW. Will use it on track.

Most Track-day drivers choose no new bmw anymore. Where in the early days al my friends choose bmw M cars over all other brands.
See all the old BMW used on the Nurburgring! Those are the image makers.

I know bmw m are not weekend sports cars. But what they have build now and then say like Harris we should accept this in this time era is the easy way.

There are still cars to buy that give more driving fun then a 1700kg heavyweight. Buy secondhand. Try other brands. Put off your BMW glasses.

Be critical don’t accept a 1700kg M car. Let BMW know the HP war is over. Build us a new 1m coupe with a 4 cil with 320hp and under 1400kg. They can do it. But as long we car enthusiasts buy everything they throw at us nothing will happen. We only get an entry level M car the size of an old 5 series to carry 1700kg around!

I don’t give a damn about bmw or m cars. The m2 is exactly what I want from a car at this particular moment in my life based on my specific needs. Like I said there was a time when I owned/wanted sports cars and BMW was never on my list and never will be, so no loss for me.

Sounds like your friends are realizing what the rest of us non-BMW fanboys already knew. BMW M cars are and have always been family cars with some performance enhancements

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by AndreM2

Be critical don’t accept a 1700kg M car. Let BMW know the HP war is over. Build us a new 1m coupe with a 4 cil with 320hp and under 1400kg. They can do it.

1400kg is less than 3100 lbs. You expect BMW to make a 320HP 4-seater luxury car that weighs less than an Emira and costs under $70K?

Let's check some actual cars.

The Emira weighs about 3100 lbs. Only 2 seats, so not an M car.

The lightest Porsche 4 seater is what, the Carrera T, and its 3200 lbs, and costs $110K+? (I'm not a Porsche expert, TBF, feel free to correct me on this).

The Nissan Z is no M car. And yet, 3600 lbs.

Dark Horse: 3800 lb.

The GR86 weighs less, sure, at 2900 lbs. But it has only 230 HP, brutally harsh NVM, and gets totally SMOKED on the track, relatively speaking. Would anyone accept that as an M car? I don't think so.

The Supra is 3200 lbs, and oh boy is that car not a daily driver. Also only 2 seats.

The closest comp I can find is the Corolla GR. 3250 lbs (without limited slip diffs) and 300 hp. But hey, it has 4 seats! Oversteers, not RWD. But it's the closest you can get. Would anyone accept that as an M car? I doubt it.

Thus, I do not believe that it's possible to build an M car that is under 3100 lbs, 320 HP, and less than $70K. You can't even get close. BMW could probably build "a" car, but not an M car.

And I disagree that withholding our money changes anything. The ICE era is already ending, withholding money will just make manufacturers move to electric drivetrains faster.

[JustinHEMI]

Originally Posted by Squidget

1400kg is less than 3100 lbs. You expect BMW to make a 320HP 4-seater luxury car that weighs less than an Emira and costs under $70K?

Let's check some actual cars.

The Emira weighs about 3100 lbs. Only 2 seats, so not an M car.

The lightest Porsche 4 seater is what, the Carrera T, and its 3200 lbs, and costs $110K+? (I'm not a Porsche expert, TBF, feel free to correct me on this).

The Nissan Z is no M car. And yet, 3600 lbs.

Dark Horse: 3800 lb.

The GR86 weighs less, sure, at 2900 lbs. But it has only 230 HP, brutally harsh NVM, and gets totally SMOKED on the track, relatively speaking. Would anyone accept that as an M car? I don't think so.

The Supra is 3200 lbs, and oh boy is that car not a daily driver. Also only 2 seats.

The closest comp I can find is the Corolla GR. 3250 lbs (without limited slip diffs) and 300 hp. But hey, it has 4 seats! Oversteers, not RWD. But it's the closest you can get. Would anyone accept that as an M car? I doubt it.

Thus, I do not believe that it's possible to build an M car that is under 3100 lbs, 320 HP, and less than $70K. You can't even get close. BMW could probably build "a" car, but not an M car.

And I disagree that withholding our money changes anything. The ICE era is already ending, withholding money will just make manufacturers move to electric drivetrains faster.

You can't reason with people that didn't use reason to form their position in the place. I admire your effort though, well said.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by JustinHEMI

You can't reason with people that didn't use reason to form their position in the place. I admire your effort though, well said.

As I said in the TH thread, that's not why I'm doing it.

Also, sidenote, I'm not slamming the GR Corolla. It's an awesome car, everyone should test drive it at least once. It's just... not an M car by any definition known to me.

[VIERsr]

Now the goal would be a 4-cyl M car to save a handful of pounds.
People really have no idea what they are talking about, they deserve a GR86 or a Golf GTI.

[AndreM2]

Hahaha love the comments.

We get this 1700kg lumps because the majority can’t push a car to it’s limits so they don’t understand lightness in cornering. If you don’t feel that then I understand why people buy 1700kg cars. Then the discussion has no point!

It is like choosing a nice slim and pretty women and she get uglier and fatter over the years but you still keep her because the sex still feels good.

[VIERsr]

Originally Posted by AndreM2

Hahaha love the comments.

We get this 1700kg lumps because the majority can’t push a car to it’s limits so they don’t understand lightness in cornering. If you don’t feel that then I understand why people buy 1700kg cars. Then the discussion has no point!

It is like choosing a nice slim and pretty women and she get uglier and fatter over the years but you still keep her because the sex still feels good.

You forget that the weight increase over the outgoing M2 Competition/CS is about 90kg (out of 1600kg), not 500, which means it was already a fat lady before.
Above all, you forget that M2/3/4's are not and never have been track cars (no, not even the 1M, which is actually pretty poor on the track), if you're looking for that in an M car you're the one doing it wrong, not the car.

[AndreM2]

We should call the Fia and tell them to remove wings and other aero bits and add lead to the race cars. ///M ore weight gives more stability.

Like i said before if you can’t push a car to it’s limits you don’t understand lightness.

Bmw should have taken 90kg out of the new car not add 90kg. My M2c has been sold 2 weeks ago the GT4RS replaces it. The 2016 M2 was lighter and better also.

[fcman]

Originally Posted by AndreM2

We should call the Fia and tell them to remove wings and other aero bits and add lead to the race cars. ///M ore weight gives more stability.

Like i said before if you can’t push a car to it’s limits you don’t understand lightness.

Bmw should have taken 90kg out of the new car not add 90kg. My M2c has been sold 2 weeks ago the GT4RS replaces it. The 2016 M2 was lighter and better also.

GT4RS is way too heavy, 3300lbs? Buy a real drivers car like a Lotus Elise please instead of instagram bait to try to show off

[AndreM2]

Yes i know i got a GR86 1270kg for track need a roof above my head so the elise is out of the question. I use the GT4RS for the boulevard cruises

[fcman]

Originally Posted by AndreM2

Yes i know i got a GR86 1270kg for track. I use the GT4RS for the boulevard cruises

Gr86 too heavy and has oil starvation. Buy a real track car please

[VIERsr]

Originally Posted by AndreM2

We should call the Fia and tell them to remove wings and other aero bits and add lead to the race cars. ///M ore weight gives more stability.

Like i said before if you can’t push a car to it’s limits you don’t understand lightness.
Bmw should have taken 90kg out of the new car not add 90kg. My M2c has been sold 2 weeks ago the GT4RS replaces it. The 2016 M2 was lighter and better also.

None of the cars you mentioned are race cars and have any aero bits. The improvement in stability doesn't come from the increased weight, but from a better general setup (suspension, chassis), exactly where the 1M lacked. You should clearly know that, since you (apparently) push the cars to the limit.
But wait a moment, the 2016 M2 is better than the Competition on the track with the N55?
Okay, you officially have no clue what you are saying and you are far from pushing cars to the limit, congratulations you just you won the prize for the biggest bullshit of the year.

[VIERsr]

Originally Posted by fcman

Gr86 too heavy and has oil starvation. Buy a real track car please

I am starting to doubt that he has ever been on a track, but also that he actually has a driving license.

[Sherlock997]

Originally Posted by Squidget

The lightest Porsche 4 seater is what, the Carrera T, and its 3200 lbs, and costs $110K+? (I'm not a Porsche expert, TBF, feel free to correct me on this).

Originally Posted by Squidget

The Supra is 3200 lbs, and oh boy is that car not a daily driver. Also only 2 seats.

To add insult to injury you'd need at least a GTS to match the performance of the M2 and the Supra weighs 3400lbs so not as light as people make it out to be

[AndreM2]

No drivers license

[AndreM2]

Why have you all chosen an new M2?

If the weight doesn’t matter that much, and size doesn’t matter either. Is the price the only reason then?

Just curious.

As an allround M car no weekend sports car as you all say. My choice would be an M3 or an X3M. I would never want a 2 door sports coupe to get the family out!

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by AndreM2

Why have you all chosen an new M2?

If the weight doesn’t matter that much, and size doesn’t matter either. Is the price the only reason then?

Just curious.

As an allround M car no weekend sports car as you all say. My choice would be an M3 or an X3M. I would never want a 2 door sports coupe to get the family out!

Me personally? I love smallish coupes over sedans. So I like the M2 more than the M3. No kids, but have a wife, so the backseats are useful for luggage when we travel. Or the occasional lunch run with coworkers or whatever. M4 is too much $$$ and too big for my tastes. Also personally, I just cannot stand the beaver grills of the G8x. I actually love the look of the G87, it's aggressive and reminds me of my old GTO

I do NOT like SUVs or crossovers. Coupes all day, ever since I was 16. Also, RWD + MT is non-negotiable. Must be rear-biased, so the RS3 was out.

Also has to be a great roadster for when we hit the road. Comfortable, tolerably quiet.

There's other small details and wants that also pushed me to the M2, but the above list are are broad strokes.

The G87 is actually VERY close to my perfect car. It's scary how well it fits my list. Easiest car buying decision I've ever made.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by M2siast

We definitely are twins. I got to meet you one day…

If I ever go to Canada, I'll visit. It will be fine, how big can Canada actually be, right?

[fcman]

Originally Posted by AndreM2

Why have you all chosen an new M2?

If the weight doesn’t matter that much, and size doesn’t matter either. Is the price the only reason then?

Just curious.

As an allround M car no weekend sports car as you all say. My choice would be an M3 or an X3M. I would never want a 2 door sports coupe to get the family out!

I haven’t even taken delivery of my M2 yet. I sold my C7, I can go out right now and buy an F87C in cash without blinking an eye. Same with a cayman or G80 or X3/5m. Can easily afford a GT4. I don’t because they aren’t the right car for me. You don’t seem to be able to understand that not everyone has the same wants and needs as you. You chalk it up to uninformed buyers because, from what I can tell, you are an uninformed buyer.

[cmgbk75]

Originally Posted by JustinHEMI

You can't reason with people that didn't use reason to form their position in the place. I admire your effort though, well said.

Exactly, why is anyone continuing to entertain this dude who’s still got Farrah Fawcett & Cindy Crawford pinups in his bedroom?

He even had the intrepidity to mention Chris Harris’s felicitous op-ed.