[Run Silent]

Originally Posted by SmokieRiver

Correct. Yeti SB130 Lunch Ride.

Lovely bike.

[Lady Jane]

A quick lunchtime ride on a carpet of leaves. I love the smell of Autumn.

[Conissah]

Well...that didn't take long. After the race I did a few weekends ago, I realized why a lot of people are on full suspension bikes. Local trek store had some, they bought my Roscoe back from me, and gave me a decent deal on the new bike. Already ~50 miles in on it, set a couple new PR's already, loving it. Trek Fuel EX 5 Gen 5.

Wife also got me this slick Dakine waist bag (or fanny pack, whichever you prefer), love it. No more phone on the bars, keys under the seat, etc. All my stuff (including extra water) fits with ease, I love it.

[Lady Jane]

Originally Posted by Conissah

Well...that didn't take long.

WOW WOW WOW...!

Congrats on the new purchase. Might have to look at one next season.

[freakystyly]

Finally a break from the low single digit (C) temps, but the single track stuff is all covered with slippery maple leaves now, hate having to guess what's part of the trail and what isn't. Roots and rocks barely visible.. still managed a quick 5k before dinner.

Congrats on the new bike!

[Chris Pringle]

Originally Posted by Conissah

Well...that didn't take long. After the race I did a few weekends ago, I realized why a lot of people are on full suspension bikes.

Congrats on your new bike!

Over almost two decades of MTB’ing, I went from riding a hardtail to full-suspension and, about 5 years ago, back to a hardtail. The full-suspension bike served me well to hone my riding skills and to lose fear of the more advanced technical sections. Later, I realized the same trail features were also totally doable on a hardtail without much discernible extra effort or post-ride fatigue. On the plus side, it instilled an extra dosage of fun and spice that I felt missing on a full suspension rig - a sense of feeling more connected to the trails. It's hard to describe but akin to driving a BMW with a stiffer sports suspension and the benefits that go with it.

[Run Silent]

Originally Posted by Conissah

Well...that didn't take long. After the race I did a few weekends ago, I realized why a lot of people are on full suspension bikes. Local trek store had some, they bought my Roscoe back from me, and gave me a decent deal on the new bike. Already ~50 miles in on it, set a couple new PR's already, loving it. Trek Fuel EX 5 Gen 5.

Wife also got me this slick Dakine waist bag (or fanny pack, whichever you prefer), love it. No more phone on the bars, keys under the seat, etc. All my stuff (including extra water) fits with ease, I love it.

Lovely upgrade and great entry into the full squish world.

I am currently bike-less, as I ordered a new bike and put my Trek Fuel EX 7 up for sale. It sold in 45min, lol. So now I sit here and wait impatiently for the next 2 weeks while my new bike is delivered to the LBS.

first world problems, lol.

[Chris Pringle]

Originally Posted by Run Silent

So now I sit here and wait impatiently for the next 2 weeks while my new bike is delivered to the LBS.

Yes, lots of anticipation. So, what's your next bike?

[Run Silent]

Originally Posted by Chris Pringle

Yes, lots of anticipation. So, what's your next bike?

Transition Scout Carbon XT

https://www.transitionbikes.com/Bikes_Scout.cfm

[///d]

I've read that full suspension bikes are less desirable because you lose response, hills are trickier, and can get bounced off the bike easier?

[Run Silent]

Originally Posted by ///d

I've read that full suspension bikes are less desirable because you lose response, hills are trickier, and can get bounced off the bike easier?

None of those things are true. lol.

[Tambohamilton]

Originally Posted by ///d

I've read that full suspension bikes are less desirable because you lose response, hills are trickier, and can get bounced off the bike easier?

Were you reading a joke book?

[///d]

Originally Posted by Run Silent

None of those things are true. lol.

Originally Posted by Tambohamilton

Were you reading a joke book?

No sorry, I was mistaken, not what I read. THIS is what I've read;

Cross-country riders typically gravitate toward hardtails as these bikes allow more direct transfer of power between the pedal stroke and the rear tire. A full-suspension bike can soak up a lot of a trail bumps and chatter, but the bike can also “bob” a bit and you lose some of the energy transfer when climbing uphill.

The bounce was a guy I know saying his previous FS was bouncy.

I've been thinking of picking up a bike this winter to start riding next year so I've been reading and trying to determine what type to get. I think I've decided on a 27.5, but not sure if I want 27.5+, or hardtail vs FS.

[Run Silent]

Originally Posted by ///d

No sorry, I was mistaken, not what I read. THIS is what I've read;

Cross-country riders typically gravitate toward hardtails as these bikes allow more direct transfer of power between the pedal stroke and the rear tire. A full-suspension bike can soak up a lot of a trail bumps and chatter, but the bike can also “bob” a bit and you lose some of the energy transfer when climbing uphill.

The bounce was a guy I know saying his previous FS was bouncy.

I've been thinking of picking up a bike this winter to start riding next year so I've been reading and trying to determine what type to get. I think I've decided on a 27.5, but not sure if I want 27.5+, or hardtail vs FS.

I would agree with that quote if it was still 2014, but suspension has come along way - and with slow and fast rebound adjustments, pedal bob has effectively been eliminated.

Even in the XC community, nearly everyone has full squish. Most just gravitate to lighter bikes with less travel, such as the Specialized Epic.

With modern geo and kinematics, the only reason you would shy away from a full suspension bike is budget, as they are quite a bit more money than hardtail bikes.

[Chris Pringle]

Originally Posted by ///d

No sorry, I was mistaken, not what I read. THIS is what I've read;

Cross-country riders typically gravitate toward hardtails as these bikes allow more direct transfer of power between the pedal stroke and the rear tire. A full-suspension bike can soak up a lot of a trail bumps and chatter, but the bike can also “bob” a bit and you lose some of the energy transfer when climbing uphill.

The bounce was a guy I know saying his previous FS was bouncy.

I've been thinking of picking up a bike this winter to start riding next year so I've been reading and trying to determine what type to get. I think I've decided on a 27.5, but not sure if I want 27.5+, or hardtail vs FS.

My recommendation is to start with a hardtail and if you’re still enjoying the sports after 6 months to a year, then upgrade to a full suspension bike if you think your local trails merit such upgrade. You will get better components for your money with a hardtail. A fatty 27.5+ will allow you to ride in snowy/muddy conditions with more traction. Having said that, 29ers are a LOT more popular wheel size.

[Run Silent]

Originally Posted by Chris Pringle

My recommendation is to start with a hardtail and if you’re still enjoying the sports after 6 months to a year, then upgrade to a full suspension bike if you think your local trails merit such upgrade. You will get better components for your money with a hardtail. A fatty 27.5+ will allow you to ride in snowy/muddy conditions with more traction. Having said that, 29ers are a LOT more popular wheel size.

Agreed with all above.

Generally, 29er's make more sense for most folks. My last bike was a 29er and before that a 27.5

My new bike - I went back to 27.5 for several reasons - but mostly due to size and riding style. I am quite short with short legs and also I spend most of my time at downhill parks, jump parks, and the like - very little rocky and rooty terrain. As such, 27.5 works better for me with the type of riding I do compared to most people.

I am not most people. 29 would be better for probably 80% of the population.

[Run Silent]

Conissah - how's that new bike treating ya? We need to hit up some trails before it gets too cold, mate. You ever up in the Asheville area?

[Chris Pringle]

Originally Posted by Run Silent

I would agree with that quote if it was still 2014, but suspension has come along way - and with slow and fast rebound adjustments, pedal bob has effectively been eliminated.

Even in the XC community, nearly everyone has full squish. Most just gravitate to lighter bikes with less travel, such as the Specialized Epic.

With modern geo and kinematics, the only reason you would shy away from a full suspension bike is budget, as they are quite a bit more money than hardtail bikes.

1. Unfortunately, pedal bob (the effect of bouncing up and down on the bike as one pedals) is still very much real on full suspension (FS) bikes. It is far from having been eliminated and manufacturers put a lot of research in minimizing it, but it’s still there and obvious in most FS bikes. But the reality is that loss of efficiency when pedaling is a major concern mainly in competition where every second counts. For the average rider on leisurely or even spirited rides with friends, not so much of an issue. People upgrade to FS because, without the necessary skills, it is simply more forgiving on the rougher stuff and more difficult sections. Please note that I actually don’t oppose to a FS bike since I’ve owned a couple after graduating from my first hardtail. Take me to Moab or Downieville and I would also choose hands down a FS over a hardtail. It’s like getting to the point where you realize you need a 4x4 truck, LOL. But for green, blue and single black-diamond trails, I personally LOVE a hardtail.

2. True that you see mostly FS bikes in the XC racing community. But when you’re being sponsored, you simply ride whatever bike the manufacturer wants you to ride. For most courses, they use FS. They also test new technologies on these races for which a FS bike lends itself better. But there are still a few courses in which the team manager (in conjunction with the racer) may decide that a hardtail may give them a competitive advantage. Those courses usually involve a lot of climbing where a hardtail proves to be more efficient due to no pedal bob, especially when you also lock the fork suspension. Believe it or not, some MTB racers like to train on hardtails to sharpen their handling skills, just like they do a lot of road biking to work on speed and stamina on hills. This is why it is also generally recommended to learn MTB skills on a hardtail.

3. It’s true that a hardtail is generally more affordable and you also get more for your money. But budget is definitely not “the only reason” why some would shy away from a full suspension bike - your jaws would drop if you knew how much my custom titanium hardtail with Sram XX1 drivetrain and boutique components costs new (second pic above). Some of us have made a conscious choice to ride a hardtail for X or Y reasons like fewer moving parts (i.e., less maintenance and more time riding!) but ultimately more fun to us. The best analogy here is a car enthusiast/aficionado choosing to buy more expensive but uncomfortable sports cars which are a thrill to drive on the road. Hope this makes sense.

[Run Silent]

Originally Posted by Chris Pringle

1. Unfortunately, pedal bob (the effect of bouncing up and down on the bike as one pedals) is still very much real on full suspension (FS) bikes. It is far from having been eliminated and manufacturers put a lot of research in minimizing it, but it’s still there and obvious in most FS bikes. But the reality is that loss of efficiency when pedaling is a major concern mainly in competition where every second counts. For the average rider on leisurely or even spirited rides with friends, not so much of an issue. People upgrade to FS because, without the necessary skills, it is simply more forgiving on the rougher stuff and more difficult sections. Please note that I actually don’t oppose to a FS bike since I’ve owned a couple after graduating from my first hardtail. Take me to Moab or Downieville and I would also choose hands down a FS over a hardtail. It’s like getting to the point where you realize you need a 4x4 truck, LOL. But for green, blue and single black-diamond trails, I personally LOVE a hardtail.

2. True that you see mostly FS bikes in the XC racing community. But when you’re being sponsored, you simply ride whatever bike the manufacturer wants you to ride. For most courses, they use FS. They also test new technologies on these races for which a FS bike lends itself better. But there are still a few courses in which the team manager (in conjunction with the racer) may decide that a hardtail may give them a competitive advantage. Those courses usually involve a lot of climbing where a hardtail proves to be more efficient due to no pedal bob, especially when you also lock the fork suspension. Believe it or not, some MTB racers like to train on hardtails to sharpen their handling skills, just like they do a lot of road biking to work on speed and stamina on hills. This is why it is also generally recommended to learn MTB skills on a hardtail.

3. It’s true that a hardtail is generally more affordable and you also get more for your money. But budget is definitely not “the only reason” why someone would shy away from a full suspension bike - your jaws would drop if you knew how much my custom titanium hardtail with Sram XX1 drivetrain and boutique components costs new (second pic above). Some of us have made a conscious choice to ride a hardtail for X or Y reasons like fewer moving parts (i.e., less maintenance and more time riding!) but ultimately more fun to us. The best analogy here is a car enthusiast/aficionado choosing to buy more expensive but uncomfortable sports cars which are a thrill to drive on the road. Hope this makes sense.

So while I appreciate your detailed response - ultimately this is going to lean towards opinion, rather than fact, for both of us.

Personally - I disagree - but also note that you and I live in very different areas of the world and probably do very different types of riding.

I don't ride XC and there isn't much of it available where I live in the mountains. Out here - where most of my runs involve extreme rocky terrain, large jumps, drops, and extremely fast descending, a hardtail would be a terrible idea - and those here know it, since you will never see one out on the trails and several parks I ride at won't even allow a hardtail on the lift.

I appreciate you riding style and can see where you might benefit - but I disagree with the 'pedal bob' is a big deal still - frankly, it isn't. New shocks and kinematics make it a very minor issue that most folks won't even notice. For those who might - simply locking out the shock resolves that issue - albeit at a slight weight penalty.

Just my two cents.

[Chris Pringle]

Run Silent: All good! Just wanted to give a different perspective to your original comments as I felt they were setting the entry bar too high into the sport.

[Run Silent]

Originally Posted by Chris Pringle

Run Silent: All good! Just wanted to give a different perspective to your original comments as I felt they were setting the entry bar too high into the sport.

I appreciate that for sure.

I also appreciate that you and I can have a different opinion and be okay with that. Too many people these days feel that a difference of opinion is a reason to yell at one another.

All the best, my friend.

[Tambohamilton]

Well, I'd like to chime in here and yell at some folk

I've been a MTB designer for 15 years or so now, just for context - not dick measuring.

My only bike is a 27.5" hardtail, not because it's more efficient, but because I like it. It's not faster than a comparable FS either up or down hill, except maybe on smooth trails without big features (jumps, drops, etc).

If I were to advise someone joining the sport, I'd say get a 29er hardtail with good geometry. Geometry is king. Upgrade tyres if desired, but don't just target light weight. After that I'd probably upgrade the forks. Get a reliable dropper post.

Hardtails are cheaper, like for like, and will teach good riding habits.

However, if anyone wants to go fast up or down hill, the answer is FS and money. Like I say, a hardtail is only faster on smooth trails, assuming both are well designed.

My next bike will likely be a 120 or 140mm 29er FS, in at least a year. I love my hardtail, but my ankles hurt and it's annoying to have to drag around a DH rear tyre with a cushcore insert, and occasionally still pinch flat.

Oh, and avoid plus size tyres, unless you want a laugh.