[bloppitybloop]

Has anyone had any experience with grad school online? I'm looking into a few online programs for an MS in Taxation.

[PSUSMU]

Originally Posted by reckedhim

Has anyone had any experience with grad school online? I'm looking into a few online programs for an MS in Taxation.

I did my M.S. as "distance education." It's the exact same curriculum as attending on-campus with the added flexibility of "attending class" (watching recorded, live lectures) whenever you want. My program was geared towards working professionals, so the professors gave distance students an extra 1-2 days to turn in work.

[MrPrena]

Let's calculate the Opportunity cost.
15 year comparison.
(This is just for illustration/fun comparison only.)

1. TUITION 1994-1999
Under
3year + 3summer semester tuition+fees+Room and Board.
Let's say I spent about $4500 total per semester.
$4500x6= $27,000 for approximate total $ spent on undergrad.
Grad
3500/q x 9q = $31,500

~$58500 spent on school in 5years


2. JOB @ minimum wage instead of school calculation.
~I was making more, but let's assume I had a minimum wage job if I DID NOT goto school. $7.25/hr x40hr x 52week x5= $75,400 in 5yrs Disposal income into saving at 25% after tax is about $18,850 in 5 years. (living with mama/dada)

3. I am dumb and just decide to invest all $18,850 in Apple.

4, After I graduate from college, I make $100,000/yr (fairly high estimate about 15 years ago). Let's say 110,000 after raise and etc.



1999-2014

School - ($110,000/yr x 15yrs)- 58,500 tuition= $1,591,500 earned gross

No School -
$18,850 saved into AAPL at 1999
~11750 shares owned at $1.60/sr on June 1999
NOW 2014- $92.18/sr x 11750sr= $1,083,115 made off of AAPL stock

$7.25/hr x40hr x 52week x15yrs=$226,200 earned gross

Total earned for NO SCHOOL - $1,083,115+$226,200=$1,309,315



NO SCHOOL is 1.3mil, and SCHOOL is 1.6mil
However, cap gains tax is ~15%, but fed income tax is about 28% 110k/yr.

CONCLUSION: I don't give a flying crap where you went to school nor how much you make. Invest wisely with your disposable.

[Uber V8]

^^ that was fuking awesome.

I'm gonna PM you about some investment questions I have.





BUT...your example brings up the age long debate, nature vs. nurture.

You have illustrated how attending college vs. not attending college in a financial sense, may not have too big of a cause and effect. However, how would your average college student know how/what stocks to invest in during 1999 or at anytime throughout that era explained?

Would one who did not attend college still know about investments because their parents taught them? They taught themselves?

Would one who did attend college know about investments solely because they went to college?

I believe the just of your example is college doesn't matter that much (once again, in a financial sense), just make shrewd investments, but how is one to know about making shrewd investments?

[John 070]

Originally Posted by FwdFtl

^^ that was fuking awesome.

I'm gonna PM you about some investment questions I have.





BUT...your example brings up the age long debate, nature vs. nurture.

You have illustrated how attending college vs. not attending college in a financial sense, may not have too big of a cause and effect. However, how would your average college student know how/what stocks to invest in during 1999 or at anytime throughout that era explained?

Would one who did not attend college still know about investments because their parents taught them? They taught themselves?

Would one who did attend college know about investments solely because they went to college?

I believe the just of your example is college doesn't matter that much (once again, in a financial sense), just make shrewd investments, but how is one to know about making shrewd investments?

You're being sarcastic, right? Reminds me of Jack and the Beanstalk

[Uber V8]

Originally Posted by John 070

You're being sarcastic, right? Reminds me of Jack and the Beanstalk

?

[MrPrena]

Originally Posted by FwdFtl

^^ that was fuking awesome.

I'm gonna PM you about some investment questions I have.





BUT...your example brings up the age long debate, nature vs. nurture.

You have illustrated how attending college vs. not attending college in a financial sense, may not have too big of a cause and effect. However, how would your average college student know how/what stocks to invest in during 1999 or at anytime throughout that era explained?

Would one who did not attend college still know about investments because their parents taught them? They taught themselves?

Would one who did attend college know about investments solely because they went to college?

I believe the just of your example is college doesn't matter that much (once again, in a financial sense), just make shrewd investments, but how is one to know about making shrewd investments?

I am glad you noticed that it was just for illustration/fun comparison only.

Investment proportional to school. Good question.

It started with hype, hobby, and DIY type of feel. I started investing through discount brokerage, when majority of people still called their brokers over the phone.
I got into it, because one of my co-worker was always excited to invest. Yeah, it was pre-internet bubble era. He hyped me up, and I did crash course home work during winter vacation. Basically, after my work, I went to PC lab, and just did all the hw and research. Watch a lot of CNBC whenever i had a chance.

Finance and Economics class did help very little at that time. In terms of aggregate or macro view, it did help. In terms of micro view, even business school didn't help me much.

2nd tier of financial/securities education actually came from company I worked with.

I've seen SOME (again, some) HS graduate who manage their own [hedge] fund more efficiently with greater rate of gain than people with PhD Econ+MBA+CFA+CMT+whatever designation you can name.

If MBA dude cannot even solve a basic data with 2nd ordr ODE, what good does Business admin application of their investment do? In contrast, if HS dude can apply all the math they've learned from AP classes into analyzing securities and mkt, HS dude would be better equipped analyzing data.

Up to certain professional level, some can do really well without school. When that level comes, some can DIY or seek traditional academic path.

It starts with being hobby. Some may be really into DIY on their vehicles with little tools. One has lots of tools who has little to no interest in fixing their own vehicles.

[Uber V8]

Originally Posted by MrPrena

I am glad you noticed that it was just for illustration/fun comparison only.

Investment proportional to school. Good question.

It started with hype, hobby, and DIY type of feel. I started investing through discount brokerage, when majority of people still called their brokers over the phone.
I got into it, because one of my co-worker was always excited to invest. Yeah, it was pre-internet bubble era. He hyped me up, and I did crash course home work during winter vacation. Basically, after my work, I went to PC lab, and just did all the hw and research. Watch a lot of CNBC whenever i had a chance.

Finance and Economics class did help very little at that time. In terms of aggregate or macro view, it did help. In terms of micro view, even business school didn't help me much.

2nd tier of financial/securities education actually came from company I worked with.

I've seen SOME (again, some) HS graduate who manage their own [hedge] fund more efficiently with greater rate of gain than people with PhD Econ+MBA+CFA+CMT+whatever designation you can name.

If MBA dude cannot even solve a basic data with 2nd ordr ODE, what good does Business admin application of their investment do? In contrast, if HS dude can apply all the math they've learned from AP classes into analyzing securities and mkt, HS dude would be better equipped analyzing data.

Up to certain professional level, some can do really well without school. When that level comes, some can DIY or seek traditional academic path.

It starts with being hobby. Some may be really into DIY on their vehicles with little tools. One has lots of tools who has little to no interest in fixing their own vehicles.

Yes, kind of reminds me as a music producer I've come across people with $100k studios making some terrible music and people with just a laptop and some software making Grammy nominated records.

I've PM'd you. Hopefully we can take this convo off record

[John 070]

Originally Posted by MrPrena

I am glad you noticed that it was just for illustration/fun comparison only.

Investment proportional to school. Good question.

It started with hype, hobby, and DIY type of feel. I started investing through discount brokerage, when majority of people still called their brokers over the phone.
I got into it, because one of my co-worker was always excited to invest. Yeah, it was pre-internet bubble era. He hyped me up, and I did crash course home work during winter vacation. Basically, after my work, I went to PC lab, and just did all the hw and research. Watch a lot of CNBC whenever i had a chance.

Finance and Economics class did help very little at that time. In terms of aggregate or macro view, it did help. In terms of micro view, even business school didn't help me much.

2nd tier of financial/securities education actually came from company I worked with.

I've seen SOME (again, some) HS graduate who manage their own [hedge] fund more efficiently with greater rate of gain than people with PhD Econ+MBA+CFA+CMT+whatever designation you can name.

If MBA dude cannot even solve a basic data with 2nd ordr ODE, what good does Business admin application of their investment do? In contrast, if HS dude can apply all the math they've learned from AP classes into analyzing securities and mkt, HS dude would be better equipped analyzing data.

Up to certain professional level, some can do really well without school. When that level comes, some can DIY or seek traditional academic path.

It starts with being hobby. Some may be really into DIY on their vehicles with little tools. One has lots of tools who has little to no interest in fixing their own vehicles.

Podiatrists, optometrists, chiropractors downplay med school and the ABA too.

[MrPrena]

Originally Posted by John 070

Podiatrists, optometrists, chiropractors downplay med school and the ABA too.

If it sounded like downplaying, I apologize. By all means, I did my fair share of schooling.

Well, med school is different. They cannot be an Oncologist at Johns, UCSF, Pfizer or Genentech with chiropractor's license. However, Elementary school grad can run their own investment with their capital.

[1fastdoc]

Originally Posted by schoy

But, gaining those attributes isn't the primary reason for going to college. The primary reason for going to college is to get a degree.

I disagree. See below.

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I have learned in life that much of life is about who you know, not what you know.

I didn't see this show up until page 6, which surprises me on a forum where many people make far more than the average Joe. Sadly it was glossed over.

Bill Gates was brought up multiple times. Yes he dropped out of college and built a billion dollar business. He didn't do it alone by any stretch. He did it with contacts he met in college -- similarly minded individuals who were also smart enough to get into an Ivy league school.

Zuckerberg didn't use his Harvard education to build Facebook. But, he didn't do it alone either. He built it with 4 colleagues he met at Harvard.

Originally Posted by 128Convertibleguy

Thing is, the fairly impressive paper that I earned while doing what I loved, paid off. Not McMansion type pay off, which I wasn't interested in. But wheel to wheel racing with SCCA. Nice motorcycles. Travel. It never hurt with women. Etc. Some of the jobs I needed the paper for. But most of them I didn't, officially. Still, I got jobs based simply on the respect those pieces of paper gave me. I also learned a lot of neat stuff. And, by seeing the lessons of history, both on a large scale, and of individuals, I think I probably make better decisions about most everything.

My bottom line. This thread asked if college was worth it, in a financial sense. Do what you love. If you love making money, great. But don't let the culture push you into chasing that, and making all your decisions based on money. Especially today, if you hate college, there's probably a better way for you. If you love it, it will enrich your life in ways you simply can't envision now.

And that's what will make it worth whatever it costs.

An excellent addition to the thread.

The decision to go to college really hinges on prior experience, family, contacts, ambitions and aptitudes.

If you want to work in a tech field for someone who owns a networking company for $100k/year you can probably forgo college. Understand you'll have a distinct ceiling.

If you want to run or own the networking company, you'll need more than HS and simple experience can provide unless you are in the perfectly right place at the right time. There is a degree of luck there and luck favors the prepared. College and contacts will increase your odds of finding the right opportunity.

It all comes down to this: show me your friends and I'll show you your future.

My son is 8 years old. We're at a somewhat similar debate right now -- private school vs public. His IQ has been measured above 150 and he'll academically succeed at either but he's going to go to private school for the reason above. Who you know can make what you know far more effective.

I'll add that I am friends with some very wealthy professionals and those in the millionaire's club all have one thing in common -- strong degrees and stronger contacts. Most of them travel in circles tied to their prior education. BTW, none of them are docs.

So, it all goes back to what you want from life. If writing a check for an M6 or better is a goal, I would strongly suggest going to college and making the most of your time there. Work hard, play hard.

[XM_Rocks]

Originally Posted by FwdFtl

just make shrewd investments, but how is one to know about making shrewd investments?

Its always easy for someone to come in and show making 40,000% gain from a 1 in 10,000 company blowing up.

The reality is investing in individual stocks is legalized gambling.

There are so many factors that affect stock prices. Including factors outside of the companies control. Mood, sentiment, institutional buying etc etc.

I wholly recommend buying into an index funds tied into the S&P 500 as your mainstay. VFINX is a good index fund from Vanguard.

Normally the fees on these funds are dirt cheap and over the long term with the fee differential they preform better than some managed funds.

If you want to invest into individual stocks to supplement your portfolio make sure you understand the metrics to ensure the stock isn't overvalued.

Back in the late 90's it wasn't uncommon for companies to see silly gains while they were hemorrhaging money.

So buy big companies with proven records and with good fundamentals.

If they pay a dividend that even makes the deal sweeter.

Occasionally you can pepper your portfolio with some gambles. I did in 2002... I was an early adopter to XM Radio and bought the stock around ~$4 a share. I was one of the first 5,000 subs and really believed in the company. I put a small $5k bet down on them and won big. I sold out @ $38 in 2005.

Of coyurse when you are gambling set low and high limits... WRITE THEM DOWN. Then follow your instructions and bail when it hits the limits!

That way you dont ride a stock down to nothing.

I did that with Citi.

[schoy]

Originally Posted by 1fastdoc

I disagree. See below.

I still disagree. I would agree that networking can be very important for a successful career, and that your network is greatly increased by going to college. In fact, I might even put it as the 2nd most important reason for going to college. But you can still develop an effective network without going to college. On the other hand, you cannot get a college degree without going to college, by definition.

Note the distinction I'm trying to make in our respective arguments: I'm not saying that a college degree is the most important contributor to success; I'm saying that the most important reason for going to college is to get a college degree. Again, whether that college degree is as/more/less important than who you know (i.e. networking), well that depends.

[Myrder]

Originally Posted by FwdFtl

^^ that was fuking awesome.

I'm gonna PM you about some investment questions I have.

I believe the just of your example is college doesn't matter that much (once again, in a financial sense), just make shrewd investments, but how is one to know about making shrewd investments?

....I'm sorry, but you think someone throwing some numbers out there and talking about hypothetically investing X amount in some company that happened to be successful, means it's a good example to skip college?

Just in turn the person could have invested in the 1000 other stocks that went bankrupt and that $18k would be nothing. There are no guarantee's in the stock market, other than it will go up and down.

[Uber V8]

Originally Posted by XM_Rocks

Its always easy for someone to come in and show making 40,000% gain from a 1 in 10,000 company blowing up.

The reality is investing in individual stocks is legalized gambling.

There are so many factors that affect stock prices. Including factors outside of the companies control. Mood, sentiment, institutional buying etc etc.

I wholly recommend buying into an index funds tied into the S&P 500 as your mainstay. VFINX is a good index fund from Vanguard.

Normally the fees on these funds are dirt cheap and over the long term with the fee differential they preform better than some managed funds.

If you want to invest into individual stocks to supplement your portfolio make sure you understand the metrics to ensure the stock isn't overvalued.

Back in the late 90's it wasn't uncommon for companies to see silly gains while they were hemorrhaging money.

So buy big companies with proven records and with good fundamentals.

If they pay a dividend that even makes the deal sweeter.

Occasionally you can pepper your portfolio with some gambles. I did in 2002... I was an early adopter to XM Radio and bought the stock around ~$4 a share. I was one of the first 5,000 subs and really believed in the company. I put a small $5k bet down on them and won big. I sold out @ $38 in 2005.

Of coyurse when you are gambling set low and high limits... WRITE THEM DOWN. Then follow your instructions and bail when it hits the limits!

That way you dont ride a stock down to nothing.

I did that with Citi.

Thanks for sharing. The XM radio example is awesome. That's the type of stuff that inspires me to research stocks even more.

Originally Posted by Myrder

....I'm sorry, but you think someone throwing some numbers out there and talking about hypothetically investing X amount in some company that happened to be successful, means it's a good example to skip college?

Just in turn the person could have invested in the 1000 other stocks that went bankrupt and that $18k would be nothing. There are no guarantee's in the stock market, other than it will go up and down.

How in the fudge did you come to that conclusion? My long and short answer is no.

I find good benefits in hypothetical examples. Whether the outcome is positive or negative. Even your example is resourceful.

[Myrder]

Originally Posted by FwdFtl

How in the fudge did you come to that conclusion? My long and short answer is no.

I find good benefits in hypothetical examples. Whether the outcome is positive or negative. Even your example is resourceful.

I was thrown off by your enthusiasm. My bad.

Why clog your brain with a bunch of hypothetical maybe-what-if bullshit?
-Archer

[Uber V8]

Originally Posted by Myrder

I was thrown off by your enthusiasm. My bad.

Why clog your brain with a bunch of hypothetical maybe-what-if bullshit?
-Archer

No problem.


Why clog my brain with hypotheticals you ask? I'll leave you with this quote:

"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge, but imagination."

-Albert Einstein

[Small Yellow]

I feel like a lot of people want to go to college because:
1. They dont know what to do after high school.
2. It is what everyone is doing and no one knows what or why theyre doing it.
3. It is marketed to hell.
4. To party, drink, and have fun like how it is marketed on TV.
5. Socially conceived that college makes a person smarter when in reality those that are smart in college are smart in the first place and those that are dumb in high school most likely wont really get any smarter in college.

[PSUSMU]

Originally Posted by Small Yellow

I feel like a lot of people want to go to college because:
1. They dont know what to do after high school.
2. It is what everyone is doing and no one knows what or why theyre doing it.
3. It is marketed to hell.
4. To party, drink, and have fun like how it is marketed on TV.
5. Socially conceived that college makes a person smarter when in reality those that are smart in college are smart in the first place and those that are dumb in high school most likely wont really get any smarter in college.

I think anyone that didn't go to college and says it's not worth it, doesn't really understand the experience (same goes for someone that commutes/local/community college IMO).
1. I had a strong idea of what I wanted to do going into college - turns out, it helped me learn what I actually wanted to do. and I'm much happier because of it.
2. I think anyone with half a brain knows they're going to better themselves academically and socially.
3. whatever
4. It's 4 years of your life without real responsibilities. I partied my ass off and had the best time of my life. I'd be sad if I knew what I missed out on during my 4 years at Penn State. Ignorance is bliss though if you don't know otherwise.
5. If you take it seriously, you can't come out not smarter. You go to learn and develop yourself in different ways - not just academically. I went in socially inept, broke out of my shell, and came out an awesome and better person.

[MrPrena]

Just read and look at the forum members on off-topic forum.

Hope it would significantly contribute to the decision.

[ragingclue]

College was a great time. I remember some of it.

[NEFARIOUS]

Originally Posted by MrPrena

Just read and look at the forum members on off-topic forum.

Hope it would significantly contribute to the decision.

Says the person who is posting in the off-topic forums himself