[JMcLellan]

Originally Posted by M2siast

If you’re not joking, please don’t do it.

You’ll be avoiding dust by wasting your clutch. Isn’t it better to have dust and replace pads than to replace the clutch?

Now I'm curious on your clutch wear comment. How much more wear and tear will engine braking have on the clutch? Depending on the day I will downshift as I approach stop signs or stop lights, and some days I will just let the car coast in neutral. Plus when it's slippery here in the MN winter months engine braking is my friend. I have never really thought about clutch wear aside from adding more torque via tuning options.

[BroDoze]

Minimal IMO - especially with rev-match. What do you think happens when the clutch is loaded on heavy forward acceleration and shifting?

[JMcLellan]

Originally Posted by BroDoze

Minimal IMO - especially with rev-match. What do you think happens when the clutch is loaded on heavy forward acceleration and shifting?

Honestly I have never really thought about it. I just know that if I start tuning this car the clutch and transmission will be limiting factors.

[DarkNight707]

Originally Posted by BroDoze

We need more 2000 pad users to weigh in on their experience.

OR

Somebody (vendor?) could do a very detailed back to back to back review between the 3 pads - stock/1500/2000

I should do the swap next week and will report back.

[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by M2siast

say you’re driving down a street and you approach a red light you know you’ll stop, you’re in 5th gear doing 30 mph. What I normally do is I let the car slow down until about 1000 RPM (before the engine starts stuttering) and then engage neutral and brake.

I see people slowing down to traffic lights by shifting down 5-4, 4-3, 3-2, 2-1, and then coming to a full stop. I think it’s a terrible idea and a bad habit formed by poor driver’s ed. But hey…

1. Why would you be in 5th gear at 30 mph?
2. I've been driving manual cars since my very first car 30 years ago & have never had a clutch issue braking & downshifting to slow down. If I'm out "spirited" driving in my Z06 on some nice curvy, country road there's a whole lot of shifting up & down going on with very little braking

[M2 CCO]

Originally Posted by BroDoze

We need more 2000 pad users to weigh in on their experience.

OR

Somebody (vendor?) could do a very detailed back to back to back review between the 3 pads - stock/1500/2000

Been running the 2000s for about 2k miles and they are great. Agree with what’s been said already… less dust than OEM but more than the pictures I’ve seen of the 1500s. Great bite and stopping power.

[Digitalprty]

Checking in after about 200 miles with the 1500s. Absolutely worth it. If you’re on the fence, just do it.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by M2siast

1- why not?
2- if you’ve been driving the same car for 30 years with the same clutch, I’m here to hear more about it.
Otherwise the number of years one has been driving is irrelevant, as clutches last a long time and cars are usually replaced before the clutches go.

We’re talking longevity here.

1. You're lugging the engine.
2. There's no concern about clutch wear, there is almost zero clutch wear if shifted properly and especially with rev matching enabled. I have a Mazda 3 with 150k miles and on original clutch and I downshift to engine brake all the time and drive in NYC traffic, which is actually far more wear on the clutch than downshifting coming to lights. That's 15 years of city driving btw.

[aerobod]

I always downshift through each gear when slowing down with all my manual transmissions and have never had to replace a worn clutch with a couple of cars with 200,000km on them.

My Caterham has 10,000 track km and 30,000 road km on it and has done about 40,000 upshifts and almost as many downshifts. When rebuilding the engine the clutch was about 1/3 worn, but the flywheel was distorted (a known problem with the billet flywheel that weighs only 3.5kg), so I replaced the whole clutch and flywheel mechanism, but without the distortion it would have been good for at least 100,000 upshifts and 100,000 downshifts (mostly heel-toe), a high proportion of them at high revs (5,000 to 8,000RPM).

[M_Power Rob]

Man, was it hot here today...

[chris719]

Originally Posted by M2siast

1- no. Or post a video of your manual G87 being lugged at 30mph in 5th, maybe yours has an issue like misfiring or a vacuum leak and you’re confusing it with being lugged. Curious to see.
2- as I mentioned when talking about rev matching (either as humans or the computer) I’ve seen it repeatedly with people who don’t rev match properly (or at all) to downshift, it’s just extra wear. If you do, good for you, but it’s not something I recommend because there’s a risk and no reward (remember it’s a brake pad dust thread, so from this perspective).

We didn’t even get to talk about the risk of locking your rear and losing control of the car, when driving fast on a turn, on track, or on snow/ice. That’s another downside that just makes me not recommend this altogether.

It’s fun to do downshifts properly and if done properly it reduces all of the above concerns greatly. I would never say “there’s no concern about clutch wear” as there clearly is, but I’ll leave you guys do your thing, and I’ll do mine. Forums are good for that, we get to share different perspectives and balance risk and reward to all approaches.

Cheers

30 in 5th is going to be super unresponsive, way below boost threshold. It's lugging the engine if you give it any load. 30 in 5th is lugging an N55 nevermind an S58. As to your other points, maybe you don't know how to drive, not sure. I've been around these forums for almost 20 years and never even seen an M car clutch need replacement except for people making big power way over the rating of the clutch or some other weird defect like pressure plate fails. The only thing we agree on is that braking and engine braking are not direct substitutes.


BTW here is an S58 G8x 6MT rpm vs speed graph in each gear:

As you can see, in 5th gear at 30 mph you will be under 1500 RPM.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by M2siast

Oh you don’t own a G87. Gotcha.

Yes, I agree. I don’t know how to drive. Thankfully I am learning, slowly. It’s a process, for sure.

Cheers

I just fixed with G87 ratios. It's almost the same. Still lugging the engine. I suggest you do not drive around at 30 mph in 5th gear. My G87 hasn't arrived yet, my bad, I didn't know I needed one to know you shouldn't drive 30 mph in 5th gear. My S55 F87C 6MT was a dog at 30 in 5th and that has higher compression and smaller turbos.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by M2siast

The car tells you to shift into 5th at 27-28mph, and into 6th at 31 mph.

That's a maximum fuel economy gear indicator, not something telling you to shift. It's been on M cars well before G87 and it should be ignored. The fact that you think downshifting ruins your clutch but you're ok stepping on it in 5th gear at 30 mph at <1500 RPM tells me all I need to know about the quality of information you post. You simply have no idea what you're talking about.

[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by chris719

That's a maximum fuel economy gear indicator, not something telling you to shift. It's been on M cars well before G87 and it should be ignored.

Exactly, my Z06 has the same fuel economy nonsense that makes you shift from 1st to 4th under light load, (until you program it out). 1st on my Z goes to 61 mph, 4th to 142 mph. It's not hard to figure out what happens when the car makes you shift to 4th at 20 mph. Manufacturers have to put that in there to satisfy fuel economy requirements. If you asked 100 M engineers, not one is going to say you should be driving around at 30 mph in 5th gear.

[Carefree]

I hear the iSweep 1500 pads throw less brake dust than G87 OEM pads.

Is that true?

[M_Power Rob]

Originally Posted by Carefree

I hear the iSweep 1500 pads throw less brake dust than G87 OEM pads.

Is that true?

Depends on how they are installed on your clutch...

[chris719]

Originally Posted by JABCAT

Exactly, my Z06 has the same fuel economy nonsense that makes you shift from 1st to 4th under light load, (until you program it out). 1st on my Z goes to 61 mph, 4th to 142 mph. It's not hard to figure out what happens when the car makes you shift to 4th at 20 mph. Manufacturers have to put that in there to satisfy fuel economy requirements. If you asked 100 M engineers, not one is going to say you should be driving around at 30 mph in 5th gear.

Yep and it’s even more understandable with a big V8 with longer stroke that can actually make some torque at those RPMs. S58 is 3.0L with a 9.3 compression ratio and shorter 90mm stroke. Under the boost threshold it’s like a lower compression N52 engine.

[GregW / Oregon]

Autotecknic which carries iSweep pads has 15% off now through 5/31. https://autotecknic.com/. I'm really happy with mine.

[ScottyRyan2019]

Originally Posted by Carefree

I hear the iSweep 1500 pads throw less brake dust than G87 OEM pads.

Is that true?

This is news to me! Someone needs to start a thread on it. 👍

[LAGWAGN]

Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon

Autotecknic which carries iSweep pads has 15% off now through 5/31. https://autotecknic.com/. I'm really happy with mine.

I'm not seeing anything about a sale. What am I missing?

[MASHCT]

Originally Posted by JMcLellan

I'm just going to downshift and engine brake to stop the car to avoid the OEM pad dust. I think I will be fine.......I might do some different pads next year. Right now not paying money to replace nearly brand new pads feels better than dealing with the dust.

Best post ever. I totally chuckled. Well done, sir!!

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by LAGWAGN

I'm not seeing anything about a sale. What am I missing?

Discount is automatically applied at checkout.