[nachob]

Originally Posted by kmarei

"tuned by the M division"
equals they ripped off parts from the M3/335is
And rushed it to the market in like 6 months
That's according to the M engineers, by the way.
They only reason they did the 1m , and made it in small numbers
Is to hype up demand for the next 1m which will be based on the new 1 series
To establish the name basically
Hence why they had to raid the parts bin to keep costs low
Actually as far as I know, the only part I can think of that was made exclusively for the 1m is the "powered by BMW M" sticker on the engine

Notice how even in the interview added on the front page, he doesn't refer to it as the 1m
But the 1 series M coupe
That must mean something...

Listen the 1M was an attempt by Dr. Z to fix what had become an mess with the M3 hitting close to 3800 lbs with folding mirrors, extended leather everything, power seats, iDrive, NAV screens, bluetooth and all that less-than-manly stuff that embarrased real car guys. While the motor in the M3 is a work of art, the car had become a deluxe grand tourer.

Despite all this, I still like many aspects of the M3 and if I couldn't get a 1M I was going to buy a base e90 M3 without all the crap BUT I don't need a snob telling us how the 1M is not a real M car.

Take a close look at what you drive before putting down other rides. for your info, the gearbox is a new version of the 135i developed for the 1M with special coatings that makes it shift 4 times more crisply than the M3... I have driven the M3 and this 1M only gearbox with short shifter is awesome and any M3 owner would wish theirs shifted like it.

You want to talk real M cars...... 1M no sunroof option.....1M manual only....1M 300-400 lbs lighter than M3 with the same brakes, tires, wheels, rear diff.

One setting on the suspension...STIFF with no electronic softening for soft butts.

So which car is closer to the original M3 the E90/92/93 or the 1M?

Dr Z felt it was the 1M as did the people I met at ///M Design Center in Garching.

[PKumarM3]

Originally Posted by nachob

So which car is closer to the original M3 the E90/92/93 or the 1M?

1m = marketing (it was created to sell)

e30 m3 = homologation to race.

neither the 1m nor the e9x m3 is close to what M really stands for - Motorsports.

[ron_jeremy]

This is a dangerous game.
M is a powerful letter, but you don't want to water it out to much.
We allready have the M package today, which means different look, and some sportier suspension among other things.
This move right here, will be a direct competitior to the S5 and S6 (and more) to Audi.
So it could mean one of two things, the true M cars' will get more hardcore, and these "m" will be something in the middle?
I'm not sure if this is a good thing or not.
I'm all for choices, but the M should be thrown here and there, it should be something exclusive imo.
Is have been used in the past, but seeing these are diesel powered, i guess that was a no go as well.
I'm confused.
Maybe the true M will become a CSL?

[bmwm3redblack]

I feel sorry for the bmw nowadays.
///M was an exclusive letter, and if every bmw wear an m-badge,it's no more exclusive. Unless bmw will build new m3 for hardcore fans and make it more raw and exclusive,but personally me i don't think so.
I know it rise sales,but one day many of us won't buy a car that you can meet all over the place,(driving by your Granny,girlfriend etc) Even if it would be very good,cause we buy M's not only because it's such a good,sports car but it's smth special!!!
I hope bmw will do smth with this. If not it's time to try Porsche.

[Schwaben]

Next thing you know they will want to start building airplane motors or something......

[Neph]

Agree w m630 and few others.

Guys, the real estate agents driving slushboxes are taking over BMW sales, that's a fact.

Those who enjoy BMW cars for their driving pleasure are being offered a rescue line by this M division... To enjoy steering feedback, handling and the real BMW feel.

I understand some ppl feel spurned by BMW for "brand dilution", but that's an elitist attitude. BMW is a company in it to make profits, not cater to 0.1% of it's fanbois.

They didn't even have to do this as they know where their sales are. So y'all should enjoy the ride, or get out and find some other brand. Good luck with that as all car companies are just that - companies.

[auggiem3]

I notice a consistent bifurcation of comments on this thread - those who have invested in an M car are disappointed with brand dilution. Those who want more performance minded cars with enhanced usability or a lower price point appear to be enthralled by the potential of an M-line of vehicles.

I read an interesting article related to this phenomenon – Harvard University created a School for Continuing Education which required far less stringent admission criteria, primarily for part time students. Although the new school was a separate entity with limited faculty, student, or curriculum overlap, there was pushback from the alumni community. After spending serious dollars for a top notch education, alums consistently argued that a lower cost/lower performance variant diluted the brand.

Personally, I believe the Harvard alums maintain a valid argument applicable to this tread – albeit clearly a Harvard Education maintains a more crucial brand value to a person than the moniker on their vehicle. My initial take, as an owner of a few M cars, fell on the side of reasonable – who cares if an M135 is badged as such when you know the power and performance enhancements the true 1er M coupe offers over its peer? Then, I considered it from the alternative view point – why should a potential M135 buyer care if the same car is branded as an M135 or a 135is?

Given the later question, it seems to me that those adamant for the M badge are looking for a status symbol held by those who invested in the performance of a full fledged M product. To integrate the Harvard example, those pursuing the School of Continuing Studies were doing so not because of the quality of the education (where they could have arguably gotten a better schooling experience at BC or BU or Tufts, etc.) but because they wanted to portray themselves as Harvard educated folks when in most circumstances, the group fell short of normal admission criteria….so I say badge it as an IS and those who want it for the right reason will still buy it.

[roho3323]

Originally Posted by 3XTR3M3

I think this sucks and waters down the M brand. Every BMW is going to have an M badge on it. The cars we laughed at which slapped an M before the numeric designation like M750iL are coming true.

Unless this opens room for the real M cars to go balls to the wall and break away from the luxury market grip to become more hardcore sports cars, then I can't see ANY good coming from this to M enthusiasts or the M brand. M ALL THE THINGS!

+999,999,999

This is horrible! Every BMW will have an M badge on it... every poser will slap an M in front of their model #.

AMG here i come.

[RON1X]

///Marketing BS... I agree with the larger consensus, the only positive I can see as a result would be if the true M cars continue to become more hardcore, sports oriented cars as opposed to luxury-sports-enthusiast cars. I don't mean to say that the current M cars are not, but I hope they become more so. Perhaps more akin to the Porsche GT cars and their RS counter parts (maybe thats too extreme of an analogy)

[mkoesel]

Overall, I don't agree with your observations. I'll bet that there are almost as many M owners who don't have an issue with the new line of M Performance vehicles as those that do. For non-M owners, the split is probably further from 50/50, sure, with most people in that camp favoring the new direction.

Without trying to speak for M enthusiasts as a whole (be they a current owner or not), it seems to me that the biggest concern is that this will mean a further watering down of M vehicles across the board. That is to say that there is concern that the performance of future full-fledged M offerings and the experience they deliver may not match what we have come to expect from M Division. Whether this is a legitimate fear or not (and it may not be - as some people have already said, perhaps it means proper M models get more hard-core from this point on), one thing I know that it cannot be characterized as is snobbery (or the notion of being fixated on the car merely as a status symbol).

Sure, there are folks in this thread who are upset about exclusivity being dimmished, and other complaints like that. No surprise there. Discussions of that nature come up on M3Post from time to time in reponse to BMW or M product announcement or branding decisions or directions, or any number of other factors. From my experience, there are always plenty of people on either side of the argument.

Originally Posted by auggiem3

I notice a consistent bifurcation of comments on this thread - those who have invested in an M car are disappointed with brand dilution. Those who want more performance minded cars with enhanced usability or a lower price point appear to be enthralled by the potential of an M-line of vehicles.

[adc]

I hope you realize that this means the M cars will move up a price bracket or two... this is BMW's attempt to create a (lucrative) middle ground - which can only mean the M cars now have room to move up in price.

The next M3 coupe will probably start around $65k. Or even more.

[JasonCSU]

Originally Posted by Mirko

Driving a 3 series doesn't mean much anymore

I disagree with that. It shouldn't matter how many 3 series you see on the road because what makes it special is the driving experience. It is the benchmark of its class after all. If people think that exclusivity is what makes it special, then they are buying the car for the wrong reason.

[advantage20]

Originally Posted by auggiem3

Given the later question, it seems to me that those adamant for the M badge are looking for a status symbol held by those who invested in the performance of a full fledged M product. To integrate the Harvard example, those pursuing the School of Continuing Studies were doing so not because of the quality of the education (where they could have arguably gotten a better schooling experience at BC or BU or Tufts, etc.) but because they wanted to portray themselves as Harvard educated folks when in most circumstances, the group fell short of normal admission criteria….so I say badge it as an IS and those who want it for the right reason will still buy it.

I totally agree that too much watering down would damage the M brand and might deter true M buyers from remaining faithful to BMW, and that a fair deal of more modest budget buyers might be attracted to this new range not by automotive passion but by the status that M represents. But what if these M Performance models have serious arguments to back up their name (much more than the M Sport...) and become best in class models against their Audi S rivals? Wouldn't they deserve to be associated with the M label which today represents BMW's sporty essence?

Personally I wouldn't be attracted by the upmarket status the M logo stands for but rather by the charisma this sub-brand has developped (an iconic letter, 3 emblematic colors, a sporty taste...) on top of quality vehicles with outstanding performance (unlike your example of trading good quality studies in order to get the Harvard brand). Driving an M Performance, personally I wouldn't derive any gratification from thinking I'm driving a close-to-M car (although we might argue that these cars' engineering proficiency and performance are way over average and are little Ms) but just a car which has some of 'that taste'. To me a fully Individual 550i has more 'status' than an ///M550d (but less charisma), but it's my personal perception, maybe others find gratification in M's status.

Incidentally, if more modest buyers seek status, how about real M drivers? Are they all automotive passionate enthusiasts? Here on the forum probably yes, but generally speaking I don't think so, more and more buyers (especially in emerging countries) are seeking precisely status and drive real M because they want to own 'the most expensive' version of such model and can afford it. Why would those buyers deserve the M badge? Only because they can afford it while others cannot? M has become a brand which multiplies its versions and evolves with its time (turbocharging, M SUVs...), so I think it isn't legitimate to say "M equals high-end traditional supercars only", it simply isn't true anymore. Rather, M today equals "very sporty BMW" (not necessarily supercar level). I don't think that a handful of purist enthusiasts deserve to claim that their label remains 'greedily' exclusive since the brand itself diversifies, openly admits wanting to sell high volumes, 'sells out' its tradition and says "no dogmas". What counts most is that M keeps producing benchmark supercars, not that some lower range versions are associated with the M badge.

Lastly, if BMW can develop another attractive and charismatic label as M is, it would be great, but they don't seem to want to because marketing a new label and making it fruitful is a long and expensive process, while the M brand is already well established and they used the easy option. But if they succeed to create another attractive label (what is failed to), and I don't mean status-wise but purely attraction-wise (status will come after success, and success requires attractivity!), then I would gladly be a potential customer. Until then, I don't think many would go for a more upmarket (therefore more expensive) label like is was, as performant as it might be, as long as it lacks specificity (= too closely derived from the stock model) and charisma.

[auggiem3]

Originally Posted by advantage20

I totally agree that too much watering down would damage the M brand and might deter true M buyers from remaining faithful to BMW, and that a fair deal of more modest budget buyers might be attracted to this new range not by automotive passion but by the status that M represents. But what if these M Performance models have serious arguments to back up their name (much more than the M Sport...) and become best in class models against their Audi S rivals? Wouldn't they deserve to be associated with the M label which today represents BMW's sporty essence?

But personally I would not be attracted by the upmarket status the M logo stands for but rather by the charisma this sub-brand has developped (an iconic letter, 3 emblematic colors, a sporty taste...) on top of outstanding performance. Driving an M Performance, personally I wouldn't at all pretend driving a high status close-to-M car (although we might argue that these cars' engineering proficiency and performance are way over average and are little Ms) but just a car which has some of 'that taste'. To me a fully Individual 550i has more 'status' than an ///M550d (but less charisma), but it's my personal perception, maybe others find gratification in M's status.

Incidentally, if more modest buyers seek status, how about real M drivers? Are they all automotive passionate enthusiasts? Here on the forum probably yes, but generally speaking I don't think so, more and more buyers (especially in emerging countries) are seeking precisely status and drive real M because they want to own 'the most expensive' version of such model and can afford it. Why would those buyers deserve this 'status' and the others not? Only because they can afford it while the others cannot? M has become a brand which multiplies its versions and evolves with its time (turbocharging, M SUVs...), so I think it isn't legitimate anymore to say "M equals high-end traditional supercars only", it simply isn't true anymore. Rather, M today equals "very sporty BMW" (not necessarily supercar level). I don't think that a handful of purist enthusiasts deserve to claim that their label remains 'greedily' exclusive since the brand itself diversifies, openly admits wanting to sell high volumes, 'sells out' its tradition and says "no dogmas". What counts most is that M keeps producing benchmark supercars, not that some lower range versions are associated with the M badge.

Lastly, if BMW can develop another attractive and charismatic label as is M, it would be great, but they don't seem to want to because marketing a new label and making it fruitful is a long and expensive process, while the M brand is already well established and they used the easy option. But if they succeed to create another attractive label (what is failed to), and I don't mean status-wise but purely attraction-wise (status will come after success, and success requires attractivity!), then I would gladly be a potential customer. Until then, I don't think many would go for a label like was is, as performant as it might be, as long as it lacks specificity (= too closely derived from the stock model) and charisma.

Advantage20 – nicely structured argument.

I understand that not all M buyers purchase for the exemplarily performance – and to tie to my earlier comparison – not all Harvard students attend for the quality of education or intellectual strength of their fellow students. To some folks, brands translate to status and those with financial and/or other means will always seek the most elite offerings.

As a motorsport enthusiast, I’ve historically looked to the perception-conscious to subsidize my purchase. They procure a portion of the M car production and, as such, absorb some of the R&D costs that dilute with volume until I can afford a great M car. In other words, if only performance minded people bought M3s, sales would drop to a level that would require less engineering expense in development or a much higher cost per unit. This financial consideration allows me to accept the soccer mom in the M5.

I’m an M evolutionist – meaning I subscribe to the idea that an iconic brand must evolve (turbos, dual clutch boxes, awd and even SAVs) – so I understand the profitability play associated with utilization of an established brand but that doesn’t imply that I agree with it.

I’d be a supporter if the decision makers at M gmbH reinvested all brand-related profit associated with the M badge vs. the IS badge on the new line of vehicles to building superior hardcore M models for the purists. I think that sounds like a fair exchange for brand dilution: I get a better M3 for my money and image-conscious John Doe can pretend he has a car built upon M heritage. I don’t see much divergence in that scenario from my M5 soccer mom anecdote.

My problem arises when the soccer mom buys an M550d instead of delivering the extra dollars to contribute to R&D at the M5 level. Cannibalization of the purist cars by those interested in the label in a watered down and cheaper package could produce a sad outcome for M enthusiasts.

From the less logical standpoint – I see way too many folks running beaters with M badges around my area. As a true M aficionado, it pains me in much the same way it would pain a Harvard alum to see the Veritas insignia applied to the local community college sweatshirt. I appreciate the price discrimination and the pride of M ownership – not to mention the solid re-sale values. Slapping the M badge on an ever increasing spectrum of performance steals some of the magic from the moniker – ///M becomes banal.

[Mwishlist]

The enjoyment that a car, or any item, can only be possessed by certain people is a very ego driven sentiment. Its like this everywhere though. You love the obscure band you found, until they "sell out" and make it big then everybody gets to hear them. They may have sold out by writing "crap" that the "masses" can enjoy and not the tortured art that only a true fan can appreciate or maybe they stayed exactly the same and a wider audience came to realize their brilliance.

If you love your car it shouldn't matter. If you neighbor buys the exact same car in the exact same color, does that make your driving experience any less? It shouldn't. I see tons of people in bimmers all over the place now, most all of them far more expensive than mine; but it doesn't make me enjoy driving my car any less.

[dmboone25]

All this is a way for BMW to charge more for the M cars. and not make them any better than they would have been anyway.

And to create some limp wristed BS That's not really an M but a little better than the respective series top of the line model.

Nothing new will be created here. Nothing better. It will just cost more.

[blakonblak]

That's it! Im switching to Mercedes Benz for an AMG. jk... good way to make some more money.

But I am getting a c63 now... to many Ms for my taste

[kmarei]

Originally Posted by nachob

Listen the 1M was an attempt by Dr. Z to fix what had become an mess with the M3 hitting close to 3800 lbs with folding mirrors, extended leather everything, power seats, iDrive, NAV screens, bluetooth and all that less-than-manly stuff that embarrased real car guys. While the motor in the M3 is a work of art, the car had become a deluxe grand tourer.

thats funny
those very same options are available on the 1m last i checked
and they are options on both the M3 and the 1m
so if you want the light version
you can order both cars without them

Originally Posted by nachob

Despite all this, I still like many aspects of the M3 and if I couldn't get a 1M I was going to buy a base e90 M3 without all the crap BUT I don't need a snob telling us how the 1M is not a real M car.

all i said was that even the head of M doesn't have the gutts to call it a 1m
he calls it the 1 series M coupe
never heard him say the 3 series M coupe or the 5 series M sedan
read into that what you want

Originally Posted by nachob

Take a close look at what you drive before putting down other rides. for your info, the gearbox is a new version of the 135i developed for the 1M with special coatings that makes it shift 4 times more crisply than the M3... I have driven the M3 and this 1M only gearbox with short shifter is awesome and any M3 owner would wish theirs shifted like it.

if it were the world's greatest gearknob/transmission
it is not worth giving up the S65 engine in exchange for a N54 or whatever they decided to call the engine in the 1m
besides all i need to fix that is a short shift kit
but there is no fix for the fact that it's turbocharged and not NA

Originally Posted by nachob

You want to talk real M cars...... 1M no sunroof option.....1M manual only....1M 300-400 lbs lighter than M3 with the same brakes, tires, wheels, rear diff.

One setting on the suspension...STIFF with no electronic softening for soft butts.

So which car is closer to the original M3 the E90/92/93 or the 1M?

Dr Z felt it was the 1M as did the people I met at ///M Design Center in Garching.

neither one is in any way related to the original M3
i've owned one
they are both fat and overweight
the fact that the 1m is 342 pounds lighter doesn't make much difference
when the original M3 weighed 2700lb

[kmarei]

Originally Posted by Bunkei

What's the goal of every corporation? Is it not to make money? Not only that, but making more money than the year before?

We, as BMW enthusiasts, are the proverbial drop in the bucket of BMW's revenue. You can't "whore" out a BMW, for "whoring" would indicate something that can be acquired rather cheaply. There's absolutely no chance of this new line of BMW cars to dilute the "M" brand. In this economy, where the narrow slice of the american population who can actually afford these cars are shrinking further, M enthusiasts have little to worry about.

We are the outsiders looking in and have no idea what BMW's balance sheet looks like. We automatically assume that they're making cash out the *ss, such new lines are unnecessary. I think we'd be wrong in that aspect. It's safe to say that the luxury market isn't get any bigger, but it's certainly getting ever more competitive. There is only one way for BMW to win more market share: by taking from its competitors' share. This is why the new 5 series is more 'Lexus-like' according to many reviews.

The introduction of the M Performance line is to differentiate luxury from sport. When people think BMW, they think 'sport' first, luxury a distant second. To increase profits and remain competitive, this perception has to change. Why are we so upset? This will not add confusion, but rather, it adds more choices. It's safe to say that the base models of the 5 and 7 series (as well as other models that are not entry-level) will be the most luxurious/least sporty. Instead of just offering a sport package in the past, there will be a separate line. This is a win!! How many times have we searched for BMWs (when buying/leasing), and we find one that's about perfect .. but no sport package. Isn't it infuriating? Now, that won't be an issue. If I'm looking for another 335i, I will just look for '335im' or whatever, because I know that it will have the performance that I'm seeking.

Heritage means nothing when it comes to marketing a product. Heritage can lead you to bankruptcy if you refuse to adapt to the current environments. There's a lot of people here jumping to conclusions that this announcement will dilute the current 1M/M3/M5. As someone has pointed out pages ago, isn't it conceivable that the new ///M series will actually have **more** focus on performance? For example, the next M3 may be significantly lighter due to deletion of luxury features and gadgets, with a stiffer suspension, making the M3 perform closer to the M3 GTS. Get the idea?

Let's give BMW some time before making presumptions that this is the end of the ///M era. For we could all be wrong, and may be the beginning of something newer, faster, stronger, more visceral ///M experience ...

but at some point
your cars are no longer exclusive
so all the people who want to drive BMW to show off in front of their friends will move on
so ultimately if all you care about is sales
at one point you will have sold out too much and your sales will start to drop
look at what porsche/ferrari do
they always try to keep their cars exclusive

[Tobbep]

I find it absolutely absurd that they will offer to slap the M badge on any BMW for a small fee. They need to restrict the M brand to actual M cars in order for it to remain true to its roots. I actually thought the M brand was the pride of the BMW company. I guess I was wrong.

I can see that they want to add performance upgrades for their regular lineup but why call it M? It is not an M car. You can't take a Cow, slap a sticker that says Horse on the Cow, and call it a Horse.

We will have so many M versions that nobody will know which one is which.

Truly disappointed...

[Jake C]

I wonder if BMW will bring back the tii brand and if so where would it fit in?

- J

[JulieDriving]

Originally Posted by advantage20

This Estoril Blue 335i isn't even an F30 with M Performance body parts but simply a regular M Sport, so that would be 3 levels more agressive

Well considering that the F20 Performance Studie showcar was a show-off of the future ///M135i, so is the recenlty leaked F30 M Performance Studie a show-off of the ///M335i. If that is confirmed, we can say that the M Performance kits on these F20 and F30 basically take over the M Sport exterior kit except for some minor details (rear bottom end which isn't black but painted in the car's color and with a few vents, stickers on the body...). Just like the current 335is is very close to the M Sport 335i and the Z4 35is very close to the M Sport Z4. Take the stickers away and they are extremely close to their normal M Sport versions.




Upwards on the scale, BMW would basically have to enhance the style just one and a half notch up from the M Sport to differentiate the M3. Not difficult with a specific ///M front bumper (with the big 'mouth'), rear bumper with quad exhausts, side gills and, most of all, heavily widened wheel arches (seen on the M3 spies).

So if this really is how the M Performance will look like, then I wouldn't worry about a confusion between ///M335i and M3 but much more about a confusion between ///M335i and M Sport 335i, and even more a confusion between ///M335i and M Sport 335i with M Performance accessories if they will be available separately (it becomes complicated ) Well Audi for instance seems confident enough to issue the S versions of all of its very last models with the exact same exterior aero kits as the simple S-Line (only differences in grilles and rear exhausts).

Good points. This makes more sense.