[M2COMP]

Hi Folks, was involved in a minor accident. The other driver at fault. His insurance said to discuss DV after repairs are complete. Mostly cosmetic but needs replacing and repainting rear bumper, bill around $4500.
What’s the best way to calculate DV. I used a website called DV.org but they want $350 for an official report. I do t mind paying but not sure if it’s legit. Will appreciate any suggestions. TIA

[ourlee]

Can’t help with the company but a pic of the accident would help

[MMMGuy60]

Go to Carvana to do a trade-in quote. Try it with and without an accident and you should see the value.

[NovaChris]

I think most states/insuance companies only honor that when you sell the car. Are you selling the car?

I believe like Alabama is one few states that you can get a pay out before you sell the car. Sounds like insurance company is just telling you what you want to hear.

Source: Good friend is insurance adjuster and I tried to do this.

[M_Power Rob]

Originally Posted by M2COMP

Hi Folks, was involved in a minor accident. The other driver at fault. His insurance said to discuss DV after repairs are complete. Mostly cosmetic but needs replacing and repainting rear bumper, bill around $4500.
What’s the best way to calculate DV. I used a website called DV.org but they want $350 for an official report. I do t mind paying but not sure if it’s legit. Will appreciate any suggestions. TIA

I have a friend that does DV and loss of use appraisals for a living. You get a full report with backup. You will really need to then hire special counsel (yes, there are attorneysthat do that alao for a living) to get the max (insurance companies know whatbthis is now days and usually offer nothing or a low percentage of the report at first)...even then, you may need to go to court depending on the amount.

My MY23 G42 M240 got rear ended at 7 months old with $13,500 in damage. To get parts and repairs, took 66 days so got DV appraisal and loss of use for 66 days x amount it would cost to rent a MY23 M240...appraisal total for both came to $33k. Driver only had $25k in property damage and only offered $4k. Suit has been filed against them...

[M_Power Rob]

Originally Posted by NovaChris

I think most states only honor that when you sell the car. Are you selling the car?

Not sure what you are saying. This money comes from the party's insurance company or by suing the party directly. Its not available in all fifty states but it's about 45+ states that do.

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by M2COMP

Hi Folks, was involved in a minor accident. The other driver at fault. His insurance said to discuss DV after repairs are complete. Mostly cosmetic but needs replacing and repainting rear bumper, bill around $4500.
What’s the best way to calculate DV. I used a website called DV.org but they want $350 for an official report. I do t mind paying but not sure if it’s legit. Will appreciate any suggestions. TIA

After a 2 month old new car was hit I went through a DV claim with the at fault driver's insurance company. My ~2 month old 2020 Dodge Challenger -- purchased new in Nov. 2020 and at the time of the accident had less than 1800 miles on it -- was hit while legally *parked*. Hit twice. On two consecutive nights.

Pic of the damaged car below.

While maybe not clear from the pic the car suffered *no* damage to any vital systems: engine cooling, brakes, steering, suspension, drive train. The A/C condenser suffered some bent fins but was not holed.

Got the car back and as is my SOP I had the repaired car inspected by a senior tech or two at the dealer where I bought the car. The techs found a couple of issues which caused me to take the car back to the repair shop where the issues were addressed.

Cost to repair -- paid for by the at fault driver's insurance company -- came to approx $8000. All new/all factory parts used to repair the car.

Then after the repairs were over with I began the DV process.

I don't recall how how I decided to use this company, Auto Appraisal Group (AAG), but I made an appointment with it to have my car inspected/appraised in preparation to filing a DV claim.

Link to company.

https://www.autoappraisal.com/

The inspector/appraiser came from IIRC Tulsa. About 2 hours (110 miles) distant from where I was: Benton County AR.

Before he arrived I believe based in part on what I was told I had a copy -- front and back -- of the title to the car, a copy of the accident repair invoice (8 pages IIRC)..

I had good color pics of the car, and its damage. Had pics I took of the car as it was undergoing repairs.

The AAG rep went over the car with a fine tooth comb. Checked everything. (I think he even measured the thickness of the carpet nap.)

Seriously the guy was all over the car.

He took tons of pics.

The guy though was not responsible for producing the appraisal. He submitted what I provided him and what he had gathered to the I guess home/main office where the report would come from.

After a reasonable amount of time I got the report. Cost of report: $450.

Excerpts below:

Our inspection indicates there have been damages and good repairs made to this vehicle. After our inspection of the 2020 Dodge Challenger R/T Scat Pack, 2-Door Coupe, we have given it an overall condition rating of Sound, which is average for repaired vehicles that are driven on a regular basis.

In general AAG's condition ratings are Superior, Outstanding, Very Good, Sound, Fair, Serviceable, and Poor. Based on our research and local market survey, we have determined this vehicle, with a Vehicle Identification Number of 2C3CDZFJ3LHxxxxxx, had a value of $39,175.00 just prior to its damage on January 16, 2021, and had a fair market value of $33,299.00 directly after the repairs were completed. We estimate that the value of this vehicle was diminished by $5,876.00.

Inherent diminished value is the involuntary loss of actual market value due to accidents and repairs. The difference between a vehicle's market value prior to accident damage and its current market value after subsequent repairs is the amount the vehicle's value has diminished.

The loss of retail market value is particularly evident in the resale of used automobiles showing a history of accident damage. AAG has surveyed the market by gathering information first hand at automobile auctions on vehicles that have sustained accident damage and have been properly repaired. To determine the percentage of loss, we also gathered information on the same type of vehicle that has not sustained any accident damage or required repairs. This information indicates that vehicles sell for less after sustaining damage and repairs.


There's more:

The estimated appraised fair market value just prior to the damage on January 16, 2021 was $39,175.00. The cost to repair the damage, including structural damage, was $8,007.29.

The odometer shown above indicates the approimate mileage at the time of that damage. The vehicle is garage kept, and it is driven on a regular basis. It appears to be mechanically sound.

The body has been partially repainted due to the repairs. The interior shows minimal wear. Several features and options were noted including: Plus Package with ventilated front seats, Dynamics Package with Brembo 6-piston front brakes, Technology Group, Driver Convenience Group, Harman ardon Audio Group, power sunroof, 20 summer tires, high-performance suspension, line lock, launch control, traction
control, stability control, ParkView camera with Park-Assist, front and rear spoilers, and locking lug nuts. The estimated inherent diminution of value for this vehicle is $5,876.00.


I also received some advice on how to submit the DV claim:

Here are some additional actions that you can take when you are not satisfied with the insurance company’s offer. You need to be willing to negotiate for a fair settlement.

1. We all know Diminished Value exists – Tort Law states that if someone else causes you damages or loss, they are obligated to provide you relief for that act. (Three elements must be established in every tort action. First, the plaintiff must establish that the defendant was
under a legal duty to act in a particular fashion. Second, the plaintiff must demonstrate that the defendant breached this duty by failing to conform their behavior accordingly. Third, the plaintiff must prove that he suffered injury or loss as a direct result of the defendant's breach.)

2. They know DV exists. If this car is totaled next week the insurance company would make a significant reduction in its value because of this accident before paying a total loss claim. Usually the person you’re talking with does not have the authority to offer more. Ask to speak to the supervisor or team leader. You should drive the claims process. Be proactive.

3. Get every offer or denial in writing. If they make you a low offer, ask them to provide theirmethodology for arriving at that figure.

4. Get a 2nd opinion. Take the car to CarMax or a large used car lot in your area and ask if they would make you an offer to buy the car. Be sure they are aware of the previous damage. Get it in writing. Submit it to the insurance company. Again, ask to speak with the supervisor or
team leader. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

5. You may want to consider legal action. Consult with an attorney regarding your options or include the DV claim with personal injury litigation. You can also take the at-fault party to small claims court. It is very likely they will make a better offer rather than pay an attorney
to represent them. However, once you tell the insurance company your lawyer will be taking over, they will likely not talk with you anymore.

6. Deduct the amount of uncompensated diminished value from your income taxes – line 20 on Schedule A is for casualty (loss due to damage which qualifies for a casualty loss tax deduction.) or theft losses. Attach Form 4684. Deduct the cost of the appraisal on line 23 for
other expenses on Schedule A.

7. Follow these links to Additional Tips for Negotiating Claim Settlements & Negotiating Insurance Settlements & Keys to Negotiating Car Accident Claims

The links below are for the links mentioned in section 7 (above):

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclope...any-29765.html

https://www.freeadvice.com/insurance...ce-settlement/

https://www.after-car-accidents.com/...-adjuster.html

So... How did I do?

Not as good as the numbers above suggest.

I took the car along with the damage pics and repair paperwork to a highly regarded used car dealer. The dealer owner even after seeing the pics and the repair invoice offered *more* than the AAG valuation of the car prior to the accident. He offered over $41,000 right then and there. (No pic but the used car lot was *empty*. This was early in 2021 and cars -- new and used -- were in short supply.)

Decided I was not going to get the DV estimate. I settled for a DV of $2500.

16 months after the accident with less than 8K miles on the car I traded it in for a new 2022 BMW 230i. I received a trade in allowance of $45,000!

And this was after I made a full disclosure to the used car appraiser.

I brought along color copies of all damage pics, repair invoice, etc.

After the used car appraiser -- from a new/used car dealer next door to the BMW dealer not from the BMW dealer -- and I were introduced I told him the car had been in an accident. I handed over all the pics, docs. He looked them over really just glanced at them then handed them back to me. I told him they were for his/the dealer's records. He declined them.

He looked the car over and test drove the car. Of course the car passed with flying colors. And I drove home in my new 2022 BMW 230i.

Anyhow, you have my experience with filing a DV claim.

Best of luck.

[M2COMP]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

After a 2 month old new car was hit I went through a DV claim with the at fault driver's insurance company. My ~2 month old 2020 Dodge Challenger — purchased new in Nov. 2020 and at the time of the accident had less than 1800 miles on it — was hit while legally *parked*. Hit twice. On two consecutive nights.

Pic of the damaged car below.

While maybe not clear from the pic the car suffered *no* damage to any vital systems: engine cooling, brakes, steering, suspension, drive train. The A/C condenser suffered some bent fins but was not holed.

Got the car back and as is my SOP I had the repaired car inspected by a senior tech or two at the dealer where I bought the car. The techs found a couple of issues which caused me to take the car back to the repair shop where the issues were addressed.

Cost to repair — paid for by the at fault driver's insurance company — came to approx $8000. All new/all factory parts used to repair the car.

Then after the repairs were over with I began the DV process.

I don't recall how how I decided to use this company, Auto Appraisal Group (AAG), but I made an appointment with it to have my car inspected/appraised in preparation to filing a DV claim.

Link to company.

https://www.autoappraisal.com/

The inspector/appraiser came from IIRC Tulsa. About 2 hours (110 miles) distant from where I was: Benton County AR.

Before he arrived I believe based in part on what I was told I had a copy — front and back — of the title to the car, a copy of the accident repair invoice (8 pages IIRC)..

I had good color [...]

Thank you so much for such a detailed response. I’m trying to reach out to couple companies suggested above. Also plan to have a Carvana appraisal before and after to submit to insurance company. I’ll keep you guys posted.

[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by M2COMP

Hi Folks, was involved in a minor accident. The other driver at fault. His insurance said to discuss DV after repairs are complete. Mostly cosmetic but needs replacing and repainting rear bumper, bill around $4500.
What’s the best way to calculate DV. I used a website called DV.org but they want $350 for an official report. I do t mind paying but not sure if it’s legit. Will appreciate any suggestions. TIA

1. Why is it $4,500 to replace and repaint the rear bumper? I just ordered a new rear bumper for $551 shipped, and a high-end shop quoted me $500-$750 to paint it.

2. There's not going to be much diminished value for just the rear bumper being replaced, if any. My last BMW had $4,500 in damage from getting hit by a kicked up tire tread (headlight, fog light, front grille). Didn't show up on Carfax or anything else when I traded it for my M2.

[M_Power Rob]

Originally Posted by JABCAT

1. Why is it $4,500 to replace and repaint the rear bumper? I just ordered a new rear bumper for $551 shipped, and a high-end shop quoted me $500-$750 to paint it.

2. There's not going to be much diminished value for just the rear bumper being replaced, if any. My last BMW had $4,500 in damage from getting hit by a kicked up tire tread (headlight, fog light, front grille). Didn't show up on Carfax or anything else when I traded it for my M2.

You arent a body shop so you cant compare what you will pay to repair your bumper to what the cost will be from an accident billed to insurance. The car needs to be repainted first before you can go after any possible dismissed value (cars deemed a total loss are handled differently).

While not a huge figure but there is definitely diminished value. You can also tack on and go after loss of use.

[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by M_Power Rob

You arent a body shop so you cant compare what you will pay to repair your bumper to what the cost will be from an accident billed to insurance. The car needs to be repainted first before you can go after any possible dismissed value (cars deemed a total loss are handled differently).

While not a huge figure but there is definitely diminished value. You can also tack on and go after loss of use.

And this is exactly why people's insurance rates keep getting jacked up due to over-inflated repair costs. Even if they ordered the bumper at it's msrp of $819, that's still a ridiculous cost for the repair if that's all that's being repaired.

[M2COMP]

I think it’s the labor hours. Plus they have to repay the whole rear quarter panel for the scratch. Off course it’s the body shop. Same way like the hospitals milk the insurance. The guy clearly asked it I was self pay vs insurance as he said rates will be different . I wish I would have asked him self pay just to see the difference.

[Zatellia]

Originally Posted by JABCAT

And this is exactly why people's insurance rates keep getting jacked up due to over-inflated repair costs. Even if they ordered the bumper at it's msrp of $819, that's still a ridiculous cost for the repair if that's all that's being repaired.

Yeah but there are many other things that are not being accounted for or the OP doesn't know, i.e. maybe damage to the parking sensors, license plate lights, or even damage to the actual bumper reinforcement. But I am only guessing.

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by M2COMP

Thank you so much for such a detailed response. I’m trying to reach out to couple companies suggested above. Also plan to have a Carvana appraisal before and after to submit to insurance company. I’ll keep you guys posted.

You are welcome.

Forgot to mention but you want to focus on getting the car repaired back to its pre collision condition as best as humanly possible.

Filing a successful DV claim is no substitute for a car that is not repaired properly.

[JAYRICHFROMMIAMI]

Originally Posted by M2COMP

I do t mind paying but not sure if it’s legit. Will appreciate any suggestions. TIA

The only legit methodology is the research done by the appraiser supplemented by their obtaining the opinions of the sales managers at six BMW dealers in your area. This is the one methodology that the insurance companies fear most.

[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by Zatellia

Yeah but there are many other things that are not being accounted for or the OP doesn't know, i.e. maybe damage to the parking sensors, license plate lights, or even damage to the actual bumper reinforcement. But I am only guessing.

What I've found, even with BMW dealership repair facilities, is they replace parts that don't need replaced and inflate prices on parts. When my last BMW was hit by a tire tread, it cracked the fog light trim piece, fog light was unharmed. Parking sensors were undamaged as well, but the repair bill showed new fog light and new parking sensors. The estimate writer also mistakenly pulled up his parts database in front of me that clearly showed the front splitter cost of $429, yet they put $899 on the repair bill plus $100 for adhesive & 2 hours install labor. That added almost $1,500 to the repair bill for the splitter. I told him to take that off the estimate & I would replace it myself.

They put to replace my front kidney grilles for almost $1k, when my grille was just popped out of place on the driver's side. I literally popped it back into place in front of the guy & told him to take it off the repair bill. He told me "oh we already ordered the new grille so we have to bill your insurance company". I said let me talk to your manager... and promptly had that insurance claim amount adjusted.

All told, when I inspected the car and the dealer's estimate, I removed over $2,500 off the initial insurance claim for parts & labor that didn't need to be done.

[AdnanH35]

Originally Posted by JABCAT

What I've found, even with BMW dealership repair facilities, is they replace parts that don't need replaced and inflate prices on parts. When my last BMW was hit by a tire tread, it cracked the fog light trim piece, fog light was unharmed. Parking sensors were undamaged as well, but the repair bill showed new fog light and new parking sensors. The estimate writer also mistakenly pulled up his parts database in front of me that clearly showed the front splitter cost of $429, yet they put $899 on the repair bill plus $100 for adhesive & 2 hours install labor. That added almost $1,500 to the repair bill for the splitter. I told him to take that off the estimate & I would replace it myself.

They put to replace my front kidney grilles for almost $1k, when my grille was just popped out of place on the driver's side. I literally popped it back into place in front of the guy & told him to take it off the repair bill. He told me "oh we already ordered the new grille so we have to bill your insurance company". I said let me talk to your manager... and promptly had that insurance claim amount adjusted.

All told, when I inspected the car and the dealer's estimate, I removed over $2,500 off the initial insurance claim for parts & labor that didn't need to be done.

I agree. Auto body shops are some of the biggest crooks in the business, especially BMW certified shops that are affiliated with the local dealer. My parents bought a brand new x3 m40i couple years ago. A guy cut the corner at a stop sign and hit their front bumper with like 1k miles on it. Cracked the bumper, head light, and fog light. Looked like a very basic repair. Originally quoted 8k. Felt like it was reasonable because the lights are expensive, new bumper, paint, etc. When we went to pick up the car months later, the total repair bill was 35k. 35 freaking thousand dollars….. they kept on finding bunch of stuff once they got into it and billed the insurance. We didn’t even know until we picked up the car. At that point it could of been totalled. A little fender bender ended up costing 35k……

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by AdnanH35

I agree. Auto body shops are some of the biggest crooks in the business, especially BMW certified shops that are affiliated with the local dealer. My parents bought a brand new x3 m40i couple years ago. A guy cut the corner at a stop sign and hit their front bumper with like 1k miles on it. Cracked the bumper, head light, and fog light. Looked like a very basic repair. Originally quoted 8k. Felt like it was reasonable because the lights are expensive, new bumper, paint, etc. When we went to pick up the car months later, the total repair bill was 35k. 35 freaking thousand dollars….. they kept on finding bunch of stuff once they got into it and billed the insurance. We didn’t even know until we picked up the car. At that point it could of been totalled. A little fender bender ended up costing 35k……

I seriously doubt a body shop could ask for an upwards adjustment of the cost to repair without an insurance adjuster first confirming the damage and only then ok'ing the additional repairs.

It is not uncommon for once the repairs have begun to find additional damage. The insurance adjuster views the car pretty much as it arrived at the body shop. He makes his estimate on what he sees. And it will *always* be low.

Then the body shop adjuster gets his turn. The car will be partially stripped: Wheels/tires removed, front or rear bumper covers, underbody panels, what have you; and the body shop adjuster has a better picture of the extent of the damage. Invariably his estimate will be higher than that of the insurance adjuster's estimate. But the insurance adjuster will almost certainly have to ok the extra repair expense.

If an insurance *caught* a body shop falsifying repair costs pretty sure the insurance company would refuse to pay for any repairs at that shop going forward. There is more to lose than just a customer or two. If the body shop has some kind of business relationship the body/repair shop can get quite a bit of business from the insurance company. In one case a body/repair shop owner told me he received 40% of his business by referral by an insurance company. Thus there's a lot riding on a body/repair shop being honest with at least the insurance company.

[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

I seriously doubt a body shop could ask for an upwards adjustment of the cost to repair without an insurance adjuster first confirming the damage and only then ok'ing the additional repairs.

It is not uncommon for once the repairs have begun to find additional damage. The insurance adjuster views the car pretty much as it arrived at the body shop. He makes his estimate on what he sees. And it will *always* be low.

Then the body shop adjuster gets his turn. The car will be partially stripped: Wheels/tires removed, front or rear bumper covers, underbody panels, what have you; and the body shop adjuster has a better picture of the extent of the damage. Invariably his estimate will be higher than that of the insurance adjuster's estimate. But the insurance adjuster will almost certainly have to ok the extra repair expense.

If an insurance *caught* a body shop falsifying repair costs pretty sure the insurance company would refuse to pay for any repairs at that shop going forward. There is more to lose than just a customer or two. If the body shop has some kind of business relationship the body/repair shop can get quite a bit of business from the insurance company. In one case a body/repair shop owner told me he received 40% of his business by referral by an insurance company. Thus there's a lot riding on a body/repair shop being honest with at least the insurance company.

I can tell you an insurance adjuster never came out to look at my BMW at the dealership repair facility. The dealer sent the insurance company about 25 pictures and the estimate, that's it. Like I mentioned above, I was able to get my repair bill decreased by ~$2,500 by having them remove parts that didn't need replaced - that the insurance company already approved.

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by JABCAT

I can tell you an insurance adjuster never came out to look at my BMW at the dealership repair facility. The dealer sent the insurance company about 25 pictures and the estimate, that's it. Like I mentioned above, I was able to get my repair bill decreased by ~$2,500 by having them remove parts that didn't need replaced - that the insurance company already approved.

An insurance company just rubber stamping what a body shop claims is necessary? That's crazy, then.

My experience over more car repairs than I care to remember is an insurance company behaves just the opposite. It opposes truly necessary repairs and seeks to get the body/repair shop to use aftermarket, used, parts, even for a new under warranty car.

[Mojova912@gmail.com]

I have used Reed Appraiser’s in
Maryland and very happy with results and cost. They guarantee their appraisal (I.e., money back of you don’t prevail with their number).

[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

An insurance company just rubber stamping what a body shop claims is necessary? That's crazy, then.

My experience over more car repairs than I care to remember is an insurance company behaves just the opposite. It opposes truly necessary repairs and seeks to get the body/repair shop to use aftermarket, used, parts, even for a new under warranty car.

Tbh - what do they care, they just raise rates. In TX even a no fault raises your rates, and as my previous insurer told me, once I tell them I had an incident, even if I decide to not file a claim, they can raise rates. My wife's previous Grand Cherokee was hit by a metal box that flew off a truck on the freeway. After notifying our insurance co and getting the estimate, we told them we'd just pay out of pocket (it was only a couple hundred more than our deductible). They said fine but it still gets added to your file as an "incident" and will affect your rates. Lose - lose.