[GuidoK]

F1 2024: Dutch GP - Zandvoort (Aug 25)

Schedule:
https://www.formula1.com/en/racing/2024/netherlands

Circuit:

Zandvoort
When was the track built?

Like Silverstone, Zandvoort was first opened in 1948, part of the wave of post-war motorsport enthusiasm that swept across Europe. Originally made up of a mixture of permanent track and public roads that snaked through the sand dunes of the Zandvoort resort town, the Dutch Automobile Racing Club – who initiated the plans for the circuit – brought in 1927 Le Mans winner Sammy Davis to consult on the layout for the original 4.2km track.
When was its first Grand Prix?

Formula 1 arrived in the Dutch dunes in 1952, with Alberto Ascari dominating the race as he led home a 1-2-3 for Ferrari. Formula 1 would go on to race on and off at the track until 1985 – before, in 2019, the announcement came that the championship would return to Zandvoort for 2020, after a 35-year hiatus. The Covid-19 pandemic meant that became 36 years and a 2021 date.
What’s the circuit like?

‘Really quick’, ‘pretty insane’, ‘crazy’ and ‘old-school’ were words used by the current crop of F1 drivers when asked to describe the Zandvoort track that many of them tackled in their junior category days. We’d also add ‘undulating’ to that list. The Zandvoort track swoops and flows through the sand dunes, creating a rollercoaster-like feel to the lap. And while the circuit was modernised in time for F1’s most recent return – including increasing the banking angle at the famous Tarzan corner to an Indianapolis Motor Speedway-trumping 18 degrees – Zandvoort remains a proper, challenging drivers’ track.
Why go?

Zandvoort combines a lot of enticing features for an F1 fan. There’s the historic track, which famously featured in John Frankenheimer’s Grand Prix, and was the scene of many great F1 moments over the years (Gilles Villeneuve’s three-wheeled lap, anyone?). There’s the atmosphere, which with Max Verstappen on the grid is always guaranteed to be electric, and most definitely orange-hued. And then there’s the beachside location, just a 30-minute train ride outside of Amsterdam. What’s not to love?
Where is the best place to watch?

We recommend taking to either the first turn at Tarzan, or to one of the banked corners, either at Arie Luyendijkbocht – the final turn on the track – or Hugenholtzbocht. For F1’s 2021 return, the latter corner was both widened and banked into a parabolic corner, to allow cars to run side by side, and at the same speed, through it. Exciting is an understatement…

2023 race highlights:

2023 Thread:
https://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2038852

[GuidoK]

So what are your predictions?
Last year of course we saw a lot of rain, something that can always happen in the Netherlands.
I still think it's astonishing how Mercedes won the last race at Spa, ditching their upgrades, and getting a 1-2 with 2 cars on completely different strategies (yes I know, RUS got DQ'ed, but I think that 1,5kg wouldn't have made any difference).
Spa also showed that the cars are now at the same point that they were in 2021, where dirty air is now so influential again that it makes overtaking almost impossible (the whole reason F1 went to ground effect cars). Zandvoort of course is fairly difficult to overtake so both qualifying and strategy is extra important.
Zandvoort is very much an 'old school' circuit.

My prediction:
1. PIA
2. VER
3. HAM
4. NOR
5. RUS
6. LEC
7. ALO
8. SAI
9. TSU
10. STR

[Marcoose]

Either a McLaren or a Mercedes 1-2 again. But never discount Verstappen.

[M5Rick]

Definitely MAX for the win, 'home' GP, Orange Army force and with no PU penalties with a worked on car over the break.
2.LEC
3. RUS
4. NOR
5. HAM

Some may be due a DNF sticking with the same PU's.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Definitely MAX for the win, 'home' GP, Orange Army force and with no PU penalties with a worked on car over the break.
2.LEC
3. RUS
4. NOR
5. HAM

Some may be due a DNF sticking with the same PU's.

#UnLeashTheLion !

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

#UnLeashTheLion !

Two weeks to go doesn't seem too bad and I'm sure Horner is busy making sure that 20 is tweaked for MAX with the 'inappropriate behaviour' tag being finally put to rest six feet under

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Two weeks to go doesn't seem too bad and I'm sure Horner is busy making sure that 20 is tweaked for MAX with the 'inappropriate behaviour' tag being finally put to rest six feet under

The Red Bull Team can't fix the RB20 issues without A.Newey .
And the Frenchman Pierre Waché s@cks . His RB20 upgrade package was a downgrade...

C.Horner caused the collapse of the Red Bull Team (!)
In other words : The situation looks really bad ...

[Marcoose]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

C.Horner caused the collapse of the Red Bull Team (!)

Well (,) well (.) That’s a change of heart, innit (?) Not long ago you were blaming the victim (.) Good on you (.) If only your punctuation could follow suit (.) :lol

[TheBingoBalls]

McLaren will likely remain as a favorite while waiting to see what the other teams and upgrades do.

Mercedes bringing the upgrade they originally had for Spa but removed because of a separate technical issue, who knows what that will do.

Red Bull needs to do something with development, seems like they're trending the same as Ferrari with upgrades not doing much.

Ferrari is said to start bringing some big upgrades after the break, but like Red Bull, who knows if it will provide any real benefit.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

The Red Bull Team can't fix the RB20 issues without A.Newey .
And the Frenchman Pierre Waché s@cks . His RB20 upgrade package was a downgrade...

C.Horner caused the collapse of the Red Bull Team (!)
In other words : The situation looks really bad ...

Not really sure why with Newey still at MK with the RB17. My thoughts are that if Wache screwed the car he's no good and ought to walk, AN should be invited back to the next building to fix the anomaly on the race cars.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Marcoose

Well (,) well (.) That’s a change of heart, innit (?) Not long ago you were blaming the victim (.) Good on you (.) If only your punctuation could follow suit (.) :lol

Don't get me wrong ...
She was not the victim ,her goal was to disrupt the Red Bull Team .
Horner was the victim of the situation and the cause that he couldn't keep the team together.
According to the judicial psychiatrists , the lady is sick in her head ...
It was a great job from a female fool to get $1Million for blackmailing...

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Not really sure why with Newey still at MK with the RB17. My thoughts are that if Wache screwed the car he's no good and ought to walk, AN should be invited back to the next building to fix the anomaly on the race cars.

A Newey is extremely stubborn . His negotiations at Ferrari came to nothing , because he wanted to take over the helm of the Ferrari ship...
Ferrari Fred couldn't agree with that...
And he wants $200Million from Aston .Think daddy Lawrence Stroll will do it

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

A Newey is extremely stubborn . His negotiations at Ferrari came to nothing , because he wanted to take over the helm of the Ferrari ship...
Ferrari Fred couldn't agree with that...
And he wants $200Million from Aston .Think daddy Lawrence Stroll will do it

All that money and there's no guarantee he'll deliver with the AM chassis.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

The Red Bull Team can't fix the RB20 issues without A.Newey .
And the Frenchman Pierre Waché s@cks . His RB20 upgrade package was a downgrade...

C.Horner caused the collapse of the Red Bull Team (!)
In other words : The situation looks really bad ...

Even so MAX is committed to RBR until 2028 as AM is not on his wish list at all as said here, it's not as if the RB20 can't be sorted as if it's some complicated rocket science and really others like Merc are just a distraction to the work at hand.
If Jos is still ringing Toto up and possibly going to see him then it sure is getting a little amusing.
https://www.planetf1.com/news/aston-...cedes-interest

[dfox]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

The Red Bull Team can't fix the RB20 issues without A.Newey .
And the Frenchman Pierre Waché s@cks . His RB20 upgrade package was a downgrade...

I saw that RB might revert back to the earlier RB20 for Checo after summer break is over. He was getting along well until the updates started rolling in. Hard to tell if that was just him stagnating and the other teams getting better, or if he really was just taking a slide backwards because of the updates.

For his sake and RB's sake, I'd love to see him turn things around for the Dutch GP. I think he'll still slot in the top 10, but he really needs to be top 5 every race.

My thoughts:
Nor
Ham
Ver
Pia
Sai
Rus
Per
Lec
Alb
Hul

[M5Rick]

With silly money being banded about and moves predicted with drivers and team support staff traditional fans are being priced out of attending F1 and being replaced by different kinds of younger well off followers who ignore they are getting a raw deal with ticket prices e.g. for BGP apparently going up nearly two fold or even more since the last race.
https://www.planetf1.com/features/f1...handise-prices

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

The Red Bull Team can't fix the RB20 issues without A.Newey .
And the Frenchman Pierre Waché s@cks . His RB20 upgrade package was a downgrade...

C.Horner caused the collapse of the Red Bull Team (!)
In other words : The situation looks really bad ...

She had already visited Brackly before she accused Horner, if anyone was the victim it was innocent Horner himself.

[atopa2002]

LEC
NOR
RUS

VER and HAM will take themselves out

[dfox]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

With silly money being banded about and moves predicted with drivers and team support staff traditional fans are being priced out of attending F1 and being replaced by different kinds of younger well off followers who ignore they are getting a raw deal with ticket prices e.g. for BGP apparently going up nearly two fold or even more since the last race.
https://www.planetf1.com/features/f1...handise-prices

Interesting dynamics happening. I think the growing US fanbase is contributing to it, guilty as charged. Two of the three US races are prohibitively expensive to attend, and the US has a huge population for just 3 races. People in my F1 friend group have traveled overseas to multiple races - Baku, Singapore, British, and Japanese, and are planning on going to Mexico, but only attended one US race, the Austin GP. I think there's plans for one guy to go to the Vegas GP this year as a gift, but nobody else is going. It's cheaper to fly to these overseas destinations than it is to go to the US races. Until they solve that problem by either adding more US races, or somehow finding a way to reduce demand so that prices for the US races aren't outrageous, the price hikes are going to continue spilling over to other countries.

It's a good problem for F1 to have, a bad problem for long time fans.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by dfox

and the US has a huge population for just 3 races.

China has 1 race. India has none. Germany has none (25% of the USA population)
So 3 races is quite a lot. And there is a race in montreal (so pretty much on the border), and one in Mexico.
And there is only 1 american team and 1 driver.

[dfox]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

China has 1 race. India has none. Germany has none (25% of the USA population)
So 3 races is quite a lot. And there is a race in montreal (so pretty much on the border), and one in Mexico.
And there is only 1 american team and 1 driver.

China/India are totally different situations - the fan base and the population that can afford to go to an F1 race are drastically different despite high populations...

Germany is geographically closer to 8 different European races than I am located to the closest US race in Vegas. Europe is just different...

Montreal is pretty cheap. Mexico is nearly as expensive as Miami/Vegas and a lot of people in this country have been fear mongered to think that they'll be killed if they step foot in Mexico.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by dfox

Interesting dynamics happening. I think the growing US fanbase is contributing to it, guilty as charged. Two of the three US races are prohibitively expensive to attend, and the US has a huge population for just 3 races. People in my F1 friend group have traveled overseas to multiple races - Baku, Singapore, British, and Japanese, and are planning on going to Mexico, but only attended one US race, the Austin GP. I think there's plans for one guy to go to the Vegas GP this year as a gift, but nobody else is going. It's cheaper to fly to these overseas destinations than it is to go to the US races. Until they solve that problem by either adding more US races, or somehow finding a way to reduce demand so that prices for the US races aren't outrageous, the price hikes are going to continue spilling over to other countries.

It's a good problem for F1 to have, a bad problem for long time fans.

Austin and Montreal are the best choices over the pond.