[chassis]

Small area of indoor coverage. Looking for better WiFi in the home office which is blocked by several walls between the router location.

Do boosters work? I have had excellent results with cell boosters but have not used a WiFi booster. Thanks for comments.

p.s. I searched and did not find a thread for this.

[zx10guy]

WiFi boosters/extenders/repeaters are pure junk. Don't ever use them. There's no reason to use them when there are so many different options out on the market now with mesh WiFi systems. Boosters/extenders/repeaters hurt WiFi performance by increasing latency and the network bandwidth gets halved when going through these things.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by Soul_Glo

+1 some can also slow down the whole network with the nodes fighting for bandwidth. Your best better is upgrading your router. One with multiple antenna can help to provide a strong signal. Or run cable to various locations if that is an option.

It's not really about the nodes fighting for bandwidth. It's for these reasons. First, the extender/repeater/booster is going to run at a set RF output. This can cause issues with clients connecting to an appropriate access point especially when there are areas of huge overlap. A unified wireless system will monitor the RF output of each AP in the system and control the RF output to prevent adjacent AP interference.

Second, the latency reference I made is due to how WiFi works. WiFi is similar to a half duplex network. This means only one device can broadcast at any given time. When you have an extender/repeater/booster, the client would send data to this device. Then this device has to send this data to the wireless router as its client. The same goes for return traffic. While this is occurring, no other device can broadcast on the wireless network until this transaction is done in any given direction.

Wireless mesh systems avoid/minimize these issues by using a dedicated wireless backhaul that isn't associated with the wireless client to AP connectivity.

[vreihen16]

Also move everything that supports it to 5 GHz wifi, because 2.4 GHz is a train wreck with limited channels. I have different wifi SSID network names on my 2.4 and 5 GHz networks, so that I know that only stuff that doesn't support 5 GHz is using 2.4.....

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by Soul_Glo

Everyday is a school day

I know a little about these stuff because it's part of my job. I've assisted in scoping wireless networks for organizations and Federal agencies. I'm by far not an expert. But can provide decent guidance over general deployments. I also play with the stuff in my home. I have an Aruba Networks wireless system with 3 APs and a hardware controller, a SonicWall wireless system with a single AP managed by one of my SonicWall firewalls, and a Cisco wireless system with 2 APs managed by a virtual controller. All of these are running in my house.

[p0p]

Any AX router should cover any small area even with walls in between.
Also for things like Nest Thermostat, door bell or garage opener i create its own 2.4ghz Wifi. 2.4 has a wider rang, but a little slower.

Also adjusting you channels makes a big difference especially if you have a lot of other wifi around you.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by vreihen16

Also move everything that supports it to 5 GHz wifi, because 2.4 GHz is a train wreck with limited channels. I have different wifi SSID network names on my 2.4 and 5 GHz networks, so that I know that only stuff that doesn't support 5 GHz is using 2.4.....

I haven't looked at the mesh systems such as Google WiFi, Orbi, Velop, Eero, etc. But the unified network systems I have touched don't need to have a separate SSID for 2.4 or 5 GHz. Only one SSID gets broadcast. In the controller configuration, there will be a setting to prefer 5 GHz. So if a wireless client can do both, the wireless system will force the connection on 5 GHz. And of course if the wireless client can't do 5 then it'll connect at 2.4.

You're correct with the limited channels with 2.4 which there are only 3 available. And the channels get more limited when you go up in wireless speed as channel bonding is required to get the higher speed increments. 5 GHz as you've pointed out has more channels available to avoid interference and to be able to channel bond to get the faster speeds.

ETA: People fall into the trap about how they want the hotest signal strength so you see full bars at where your wireless client is going to be used. But people don't think that these wireless clients don't output the same amount of power as an AP. It's counter to the goal of a mobile device. Mobile devices are more concerned over energy efficiency and use time before needing to recharge the battery. This is why in a business/organization multiple APs are deployed in areas where mobile clients are likely to be used. You want the AP and the wireless client to be as close as possible. In some cases depending on the wireless client density, there can be multiple APs in the same room. You see this in large conference rooms.

[S1nner]

This is what solved a poor signal on a second floor for me - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1.

[wrickem]

My house is 4 floors built in 1864. It’s built with stone/stucco/horsehair/brick and God knows what else so of course Wi-Fi is a nightmare here.

I also like a bit of tech -13 Sonos wireless speakers (running cable is also a nightmare), cameras, door locks, thermostat, smoke alarm, smart plugs, you get the picture.

I’ve tried extenders, but never ended up with good results.

I had decent coverage with my last router but just replaced it with a Netgear Orbi 960 on my 3rd floor, and 1 satellite on my 2nd floor. The coverage is unbelievable. It even reaches to my back yard now and even the Sonos (everybody is having problems with since a recent new release) works perfectly.

The week after I bought it, they released a 7 series for way less money which I’d bet would be just as good, but oh well

[Tyga11]

I have orbi in a bedroom and it works...you can't stream Netflix in 1080 but it works from having 0 signal (previously) to now having a decent signal...and it didn't impact anything else in our house. So yes, they absolutely work depending on your goals

[vreihen16]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

But the unified network systems I have touched don't need to have a separate SSID for 2.4 or 5 GHz. Only one SSID gets broadcast. In the controller configuration, there will be a setting to prefer 5 GHz. So if a wireless client can do both, the wireless system will force the connection on 5 GHz. And of course if the wireless client can't do 5 then it'll connect at 2.4.

The feature that you're referring to is called band-steering by some wifi infrastructure vendors. Great in concept, until you read the 802.11 specs and see that it is the responsibility of the client device and not the access point/controller to make all decisions about bands, channels, and roaming based on whatever they want (sorta like herding cats). The makers of some 2.4 GHz-only IoT/embedded devices also didn't read the specs, and they refuse to connect to a 2.4 SSID if band-steering tries to redirect them to a 5 GHz SSID with the same name.

FWIW, my place of employment until I involuntarily retired a few weeks ago has 600+ access points spread across 26 or so buildings, and had the most, um, eclectic collection of BYOD devices that have challenged several vendors' wifi infrastructure over the years with various wifi compatibility issues. A lot of that stuff was intended for home use with a single access point on a flat IP subnet, and barely supports WPA2-personal never mind enterprise encryption.

I noticed that some major home ISP's are shipping their consumer wifi gateways with separate 2.4 and 5 GHz SSIDs out of the box, but I have never looked at their instructions to see if they tell the customer why they should connect to the network name that ends in "-5" or something similar to identify the preferred band.....

[chassis]

Thanks for the comments.

Non-IT professional here, as if that wasn’t obvious!

I am using a SurfBoard SBG10 (I know).

I want to avoid buying a new modem. The SBG10 has 2 Ethernet ports. Can I buy a better router and connect via Ethernet cable to the SBG10?

Or will the new router and SBG10 router fight each other?

ps of course Google has answers, none of them useful.

[2000cs]

I’ve fought home routers for years, most don’t seem to last very long (heat seems to be their downfall).

At a prior house, which was 3 floors and a lot of distance from the entry point for Internet and use points for mobile and streaming devices, we tried Velop. Had one master and three others. They were great when working, but needed to be reset too often for my likes (and way too often for my wife’s). I don’t know why; but hard reset to all, then turn them back on in sequence resulted in good performance again. That was 2018-2020

Since my last Velop failed, we bought an Amplifi Alien. Now in a smaller house and able to locate it more centrally. Much easier to manage with their iPad/iPhone app, has not needed a reset in 18 months (although I do it now and then, and power outages also do it). The thing is a tank. However I found out that it is hard (or maybe impossible) to extend when you buy just one - have to buy them in pairs or threes if that is the plan. (That is 18 month old info, their products now may be more adaptable/extendable.)

The Alien is a great home router, and worth the extra cost, in our experience.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by vreihen16

The feature that you're referring to is called band-steering by some wifi infrastructure vendors. Great in concept, until you read the 802.11 specs and see that it is the responsibility of the client device and not the access point/controller to make all decisions about bands, channels, and roaming based on whatever they want (sorta like herding cats). The makers of some 2.4 GHz-only IoT/embedded devices also didn't read the specs, and they refuse to connect to a 2.4 SSID if band-steering tries to redirect them to a 5 GHz SSID with the same name.

FWIW, my place of employment until I involuntarily retired a few weeks ago has 600+ access points spread across 26 or so buildings, and had the most, um, eclectic collection of BYOD devices that have challenged several vendors' wifi infrastructure over the years with various wifi compatibility issues. A lot of that stuff was intended for home use with a single access point on a flat IP subnet, and barely supports WPA2-personal never mind enterprise encryption.

I noticed that some major home ISP's are shipping their consumer wifi gateways with separate 2.4 and 5 GHz SSIDs out of the box, but I have never looked at their instructions to see if they tell the customer why they should connect to the network name that ends in "-5" or something similar to identify the preferred band.....

I haven't had any issues with any of the Aruba Networks equipment I've sold to clients and in my home environment with having 5 GHz being used over 2.4. But you brought up a painful memory with TCL customer support. I was having issues with a TCL smart TV connecting to my wireless network at AC speeds. It connected fine at 5 GHz under 802.11n. I kept going in circles with the drone at the India call center. She had to have me go through her scripted procedure and wouldn't listen to anything I had to say. Then tried to explain wireless networking to me which I would have laughed at but I was so pissed at wasting all that time on the phone with her. I kept asking to be escalated to tier 2 support of which she said that would be her supervisor and that he would call me back. Never did. I tried calling the support number again and got someone State side because it was obvious by how this person was talking to me. I explained the situation and then she said hang on as she thinks she knows the fix. Came back to me and told me to set my wireless network to run on a specific channel which then fixed the problem.

Can't say what the ISPs are telling their customers on the differences between 2.4 and 5 GHz. I've never used ISP provided equipment since getting off of DSL decades ago. I've always used a cable modem I bought and provided my own hardware sitting behind it.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by chassis

Thanks for the comments.

Non-IT professional here, as if that wasn’t obvious!

I am using a SurfBoard SBG10 (I know).

I want to avoid buying a new modem. The SBG10 has 2 Ethernet ports. Can I buy a better router and connect via Ethernet cable to the SBG10?

Or will the new router and SBG10 router fight each other?

ps of course Google has answers, none of them useful.

As I said, get a mesh system such as from Google WiFi, Eero, Linksys Velop, Netgear Orbi, or if you want to step up a bit one from Ubiquiti. All you have to do is turn off the wireless AP in the SBG10. Connect the wired gateway for the mesh system to a LAN/Ethernet port of the SBG10. Then follow the setup instructions for that particular hardware. All of your wireless connectivity will now be handled by the mesh system as it should be.

[chassis]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

As I said, get a mesh system such as from Google WiFi, Eero, Linksys Velop, Netgear Orbi, or if you want to step up a bit one from Ubiquiti. All you have to do is turn off the wireless AP in the SBG10. Connect the wired gateway for the mesh system to a LAN/Ethernet port of the SBG10. Then follow the setup instructions for that particular hardware. All of your wireless connectivity will now be handled by the mesh system as it should be.

Thanks. I need to figure out how to turn off the wireless AP in the SBG10.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by chassis

Thanks. I need to figure out how to turn off the wireless AP in the SBG10.

It would be a setting in the admin GUI for the SBG10.

[oVeRdOsE.]

I agree, repeter and extender are good let says to get your outdoor wifi dongle for something like lights, pools, water, etc.

For serious stuff : mesh.


In my case, Ive opted to move the router in the middle of the house, in the ceiling. Not super practical when I need to access it, like once every year, but I have coverage everywhere, and looks clean.

[zx10guy]

I have to repeat. No one should be using a repeater/extender/booster when there are very good mesh systems available. Repeater/extender/boosters are just pure junk with today's technology.

I also want to comment about placement of wireless routers and access points. Pretty much every wireless router and access point designed for indoor use have omni directional antennas. What does this mean? Depending on the characteristics of the antenna, meaning the gain, will affect the RF pattern. An omni directional antenna with a gain of 0 will be a spherical RF pattern in three dimensions. As you increase the gain, the RF pattern changes to have more "squish" in the middle but extending the range/reach of the RF signal out the x and y axis. Many antennas included with wireless routers and indoor access points have a gain which has the RF pattern represent a donut shaped output. So when you have a device with internal antennas, you have to keep this in mind when moving a wireless router/access point in your home. You may get better coverage in one part of the house but lose it in another.

If you have a wireless router/access point with external antennas, you can move the antennas to try to "aim" the RF coverage where it's most optimal for your situation.

[unluky]

I'm not sure what everyone else is talking about, but I have great luck with boosters. I use them in our plant to extend the range of our WIFI for our display screens. When I reboot them everything goes down, but when they are up everything works great.

I used on at my farm too so I can push the signal out enough to get it in my detached shed as well.

Everything I use them for is cameras, display screens, etc so I am not gaming on them, but they work great for my needs.

[///MPhatic]

This whole conversation is so over my head.

I get 600MB wired, but on the other side of the house a video won't even play consistently, and in the basement on that side I only get 30MB.

It's enough to make you pull your hair out.

[vreihen16]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

I haven't had any issues with any of the Aruba Networks equipment I've sold to clients and in my home environment with having 5 GHz being used over 2.4.

The current wifi stuff at my former employer is all Aruba, and seems to be handling things better than any of the previous solutions. Maybe the IoT and embedded vendors are getting better with their compatibility?

She had to have me go through her scripted procedure and wouldn't listen to anything I had to say. Then tried to explain wireless networking to me which I would have laughed at but I was so pissed at wasting all that time on the phone with her.

I open all tech support calls with "I only need tech support because there's a flaw in your product that I cannot fix on my own." Smart TVs, game consoles, and third-string Android devices are the worst.

I've never used ISP provided equipment since getting off of DSL decades ago. I've always used a cable modem I bought and provided my own hardware sitting behind it.

I only know because I was staying in hotels and apartment complexes with relatives, and looked at the cluster-fsck of SSIDs in the air. I can only imagine what 2.4 GHz looks like in those places on a spectrum analyzer!

I was the first home Roadrunner cable modem customer in our region, and know this for a fact because I was involved with training their installers. I was also the first customer in the region to supply my own cable modem, because the ones they provided at the time would not link on the ethernet side to my commercial-grade router without an old-school 10Mbps ethernet hub (not a switch) between them.....