[M2siast]

All is well when it ends well.
I agree this is another something we’ll have to develop muscle memory for. I guess it’ll just take getting used to it and then it’ll become second nature like the manual handbrake was.

[cmgbk75]

Originally Posted by M2siast

All is well when it ends well.
I agree this is another something we’ll have to develop muscle memory for. I guess it’ll just take getting used to it and then it’ll become second nature like the manual handbrake was.

I know there was a school of thought regarding the Handbrake on older cars and it being good for the rear brake or something but personally I have never used it. My parents who I learned to drive a Manual from never used it. I always just leave the car in gear and haven’t lost one yet. Granted I don’t live in San Francisco. Why do you guys use the Parking Brake, is it just a personal preference/habit/paranoia of the car rolling away?

[M2siast]

Originally Posted by cmgbk75

I know there was a school of thought regarding the Handbrake on older cars and it being good for the rear brake or something but personally I have never used it. My parents who I learned to drive a Manual from never used it. I always just leave the car in gear and haven’t lost one yet. Granted I don’t live in San Francisco. Why do you guys use the Parking Brake, is it just a personal preference/habit/paranoia of the car rolling away?

Good question. It’s really all to do with inclines. I just set the parking brake when flat and I’ll do brake and first gear (plus turn the wheel) when it’s steep.

I’ve lived in the prairies and it was all flat like New York, so I had a habit of just engaging first (especially because the handbrake shoes could freeze in the winter and then you’re stuck).

So, to me, engaging the brake nowadays is about developing that muscle memory so I’m not leaving it in gear accidentally on an incline, and having the car roll.

I’m glad I was never an automatic driver, because automatics have the park position which works well regardless of parking brake.

[cmgbk75]

Originally Posted by M2siast

Good question. It’s really all to do with inclines. I just set the parking brake when flat and I’ll do brake and first gear (plus turn the wheel) when it’s steep.

I’ve lived in the prairies and it was all flat like New York, so I had a habit of just engaging first (especially because the handbrake shoes could freeze in the winter and then you’re stuck).

So, to me, engaging the brake nowadays is about developing that muscle memory so I’m not leaving it in gear accidentally on an incline, and having the car roll.


I’m glad I was never an automatic driver, because automatics have the park position which works well regardless of parking brake.

But how would the car roll if it was left in gear? Leaving the car in gear is the same as Automatics going into Park.

[DivergedM2]

Interesting topic. Had a G80 who had his battery die and he wasn't in gear. The parking brake turned off and the car rolled back, minimal damage thankfully.

I'm always parking in gear now... and this is a good example of if it ain't broke, don't fix. It was second nature pulling my handbrake on my F87.

[M2siast]

Originally Posted by cmgbk75

But how would the car roll if it was left in gear? Leaving the car in gear is the same as Automatics going into Park.

It’s not man.
A gear just makes it “heavier” for the car to move (the opposite torque you get when you accelerate, is used to slow the car down). So 6th gear won’t hold the car at all (try it). You can still move it, there will be some resistance but not a lot.

Automatics have a “hook” that clips the shaft from moving (it’s a pin that goes in the cog, locking the car in place). That back and forth motion you experience when you put an auto in P is the slack the cog has (the pin rocks back and forth in between the two teeth). The only way to move an auto in P is if that pin/hook gets sheared off, or the cog teeth.

A manual doesn’t have that. Cars roll.

[M2siast]

Originally Posted by DivergedM2

Interesting topic. Had a G80 who had his battery die and he wasn't in gear. The parking brake turned off and the car rolled back, minimal damage thankfully.

I'm always parking in gear now... and this is a good example of if it ain't broke, don't fix. It was second nature pulling my handbrake on my F87.

I’m not calling BS on that because I wasn’t there.
But my theory is the car did not have the parking brake on.

If the battery died, the car had no power to roll back the parking brake.

[DivergedM2]

Originally Posted by M2siast

I’m not calling BS on that because I wasn’t there.
But my theory is the car did not have the parking brake on.

If the battery died, the car had no power to roll back the parking brake.

that’s a good point.. it is one of those instances where he swears he turned it on but 100% could’ve been that one time miss.

[M2siast]

Originally Posted by DivergedM2

that’s a good point.. it is one of those instances where he swears he turned it on but 100% could’ve been that one time miss.

Which is why we gotta keep practicing! Lol

Speak of, I’m kinda glad the car doesn’t do it for you. Why? Because the car will fail it eventually.

I have the feature of locking when walking away on, I mentioned here before. Twice I came back to an unlocked car at strip malls, because it didn’t work and the car didn’t lock itself.
So I coded the chirp back on (I hate noise, so I had turned it off trusting the locking mechanism sound and flashers) to ensure I hear it, and I always look back to confirm.
Having to do that with the parking brake would be a PITA.

At least there was a coding option to lower the chirp volume

[cmgbk75]

Originally Posted by M2siast

It’s not man.
A gear just makes it “heavier” for the car to move (the opposite torque you get when you accelerate, is used to slow the car down). So 6th gear won’t hold the car at all (try it). You can still move it, there will be some resistance but not a lot.

Automatics have a “hook” that clips the shaft from moving (it’s a pin that goes in the cog, locking the car in place). That back and forth motion you experience when you put an auto in P is the slack the cog has (the pin rocks back and forth in between the two teeth). The only way to move an auto in P is if that pin/hook gets sheared off, or the cog teeth.

A manual doesn’t have that. Cars roll.

I didn’t mean the same technically, I always leave the car in Reverse or 1st gear as I usually don’t park in 6th gear. Have never had an issue with the car moving. I’ve even witnessed idiots bouncing off it while trying to park.

[M2siast]

Originally Posted by cmgbk75

I didn’t mean the same technically, I always leave the car in Reverse or 1st gear as I usually don’t park in 6th gear. Have never had an issue with the car moving. I’ve even witnessed idiots bouncing off it while trying to park.

Leaving it in reverse is worse because 1st is shorter, so it’ll hold the car better.

I guess it’s because you don’t park in steep steep places. Cars can roll in 1st (or on older parking brakes as well). I think the electric parking brake does a better job, but I didn’t try it.

If it’s too steep, I’ll turn the wheel to point out so if the car rolls the tire will hit the curb and stop it (and not damage the wheel), 1st gear and parking brake.

Not an issue with an automatic, is what I’m saying.

[cmgbk75]

Originally Posted by M2siast

Leaving it in reverse is worse because 1st is shorter, so it’ll hold the car better.

I guess it’s because you don’t park in steep steep places. Cars can roll in 1st (or on older parking brakes as well). I think the electric parking brake does a better job, but I didn’t try it.

If it’s too steep, I’ll turn the wheel to point out so if the car rolls the tire will hit the curb and stop it (and not damage the wheel), 1st gear and parking brake.

Not an issue with an automatic, is what I’m saying.

I remember that trick from Drivers Ed, never done that either.

My house upstate has a pretty good incline where I park and neither the E46 or any car has ever budged from just being secured in 1st/Reverse. I’ll continue to be lazy/indifferent to the Parking brake, hopefully one day I don’t regret not following your extra rollaway vigilance, if I do I’ll just blame on it a Deer.

[M2siast]

Originally Posted by cmgbk75

I remember that trick from Drivers Ed, never done that either.

My house upstate has a pretty good incline where I park and neither the E46 or any car has ever budged from just being secured in 1st/Reverse. I’ll continue to be lazy/indifferent to the Parking brake, hopefully one day I don’t regret not following your extra rollaway vigilance, if I do I’ll just blame on it a Deer.

I hope you don’t need it too, but that will be because the road wasn't too steep
And we know steep roads are deer paradise lol

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by cmgbk75

I know there was a school of thought regarding the Handbrake on older cars and it being good for the rear brake or something but personally I have never used it. My parents who I learned to drive a Manual from never used it. I always just leave the car in gear and haven’t lost one yet. Granted I don’t live in San Francisco. Why do you guys use the Parking Brake, is it just a personal preference/habit/paranoia of the car rolling away?

The driveway apron in front of my garage is steep enough that the car will gradually creep forward in first gear if the parking brake isn't engaged, I suppose the transition to the street if taken straight on is enough that the car will stop when the front spoiler touches the ground and the car is blocking the sidewalk

[KC87ZB]

First is the correct gear for
Parking as it has the most engine compression to hold. Parking brake should generally be used and aleays on an incline. A manual relies on the clutch disk/flywheel resistance and engine compression to not roll. An auto has a parking pawl that engages.

The only time I don’t use the parking brake is when very flat directly after washing, snow, etc to prevent pad stick. Otherwise always whether auto or manual. In autos you take pressure off the parking pawl and save wear and tear on that mechanism of the transmission if you use your parking brake correctly (engage brake before engaging park).

So many folks today, not this crowd, don’t learn correctly because their driving trachers may not have ever driven a manual.

[Squidget]

I always set the parking brake and turn wheels when on an incline. I rarely put the car in first. Not saying you shouldn't do that, I just never got into the habit.

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by cmgbk75

I know there was a school of thought regarding the Handbrake on older cars and it being good for the rear brake or something but personally I have never used it. My parents who I learned to drive a Manual from never used it. I always just leave the car in gear and haven’t lost one yet. Granted I don’t live in San Francisco. Why do you guys use the Parking Brake, is it just a personal preference/habit/paranoia of the car rolling away?

I use the parking brake when I park the car because well, I am parking the car.

Years ago I relied upon the P parking pawl in my Dodge D200 pickup to keep the vehicle from rolling. It worked just fine until one day at a 7-Eleven I walked out of the store with my hands full with a donut and coffee and observed my truck slowly rolling backwards. I managed to get to the truck open the door and apply the brake just before the truck rolled out into the street without dropping my donut or coffee but my heart rate was stratospheric.

Even after the above incident believe it or not I didn't learn. But I learned it after the truck did the same thing another time only this time rolling back and bumping a car parked behind my truck. Fortunately the damage was slight -- and to be honest the car my truck hit had so much body damage -- albeit of the minor kind -- it was hard to find what bit of damage my truck added to the car. The car owner refused my offer to pay to fix what bit of damage my truck caused.

But lesson learned this time. Thereafter I used the parking brake in case the transmission parking pawl didn't hold. And I use the parking brake even with cars fitted with a manual transmission.

Yeah, the pick up truck transmission was an automatic and my M2 is a manual. But even though I put the transmission in 2nd gear I still apply the parking brake. Bad enough to have a no account pick up truck roll away but an M2? No thank you.

And 2nd gear not 1st? Yeah. While 1st gear offers more resistance to the vehicle rolling my habit is to use 2nd gear. This is because my driving started before there was a clutch interlock safety switch and one could start the engine with the manual transmission in gear. So I very quickly got in the habit of using 2nd gear in the hope if someone attempted to start the engine while in gear and without pushing in the clutch first the engine would not start. Or would start but die/stall being in 2nd gear.

[cmgbk75]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

I use the parking brake when I park the car because well, I am parking the car.

Years ago I relied upon the P parking pawl in my Dodge D200 pickup to keep the vehicle from rolling. It worked just fine until one day at a 7-Eleven I walked out of the store with my hands full with a donut and coffee and observed my truck slowly rolling backwards. I managed to get to the truck open the door and apply the brake just before the truck rolled out into the street without dropping my donut or coffee but my heart rate was stratospheric.

Even after the above incident believe it or not I didn't learn. But I learned it after the truck did the same thing another time only this time rolling back and bumping a car parked behind my truck. Fortunately the damage was slight — and to be honest the car my truck hit had so much body damage — albeit of the minor kind — it was hard to find what bit of damage my truck added to the car. The car owner refused my offer to pay to fix what bit of damage my truck caused.

But lesson learned this time. Thereafter I used the parking brake in case the transmission parking pawl didn't hold. And I use the parking brake even with cars fitted with a manual transmission.

Yeah, the pick up truck transmission was an automatic and my M2 is a manual. But even though I put the transmission in 2nd gear I still apply the parking brake. Bad enough to have a no account pick up truck roll away but an M2? No thank you.

And 2nd gear not 1st? Yeah. While 1st gear offers more resistance to the vehicle rolling my habit is to use 2nd gear. This is because my [...]

Just recently I was trying to think back on when the press the clutch to start the car thing became widespread. Mk4 & Mk5 VR6s didn’t have to but my pre-LCI e46 you do. So I’m guessing somewhere in the early aughts seeing that BMW usually starts trends. Was it a regulation that brought the change?

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by cmgbk75

Just recently I was trying to think back on when the press the clutch to start the car thing became widespread. Mk4 & Mk5 VR6s didn’t have to but my pre-LCI e46 you do. So I’m guessing somewhere in the early aughts seeing that BMW usually starts trends. Was it a regulation that brought the change?

I'm not familiar with the Mk4/Mk5 VR6s or the e46 you speak of.

Not sure when the "press clutch to start engine" became a thing. I really can't recall this being present or not in my cars before my 2002 Porsche Boxster I bought in 2002. But it was present in that car and has been present in every manual equipped car since.

[cmgbk75]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

I'm not familiar with the Mk4/Mk5 VR6s or the e46 you speak of.

Not sure when the "press clutch to start engine" became a thing. I really can't recall this being present or not in my cars before my 2002 Porsche Boxster I bought in 2002. But it was present in that car and has been present in every manual equipped car since.

MKs are Golfs made by the parents of your Boxster. e46 was the 3-series from the very late 1999 until 2005. If it fact that is what you were asking.

[Trogster]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

I'm not familiar with the Mk4/Mk5 VR6s or the e46 you speak of.

Not sure when the "press clutch to start engine" became a thing. I really can't recall this being present or not in my cars before my 2002 Porsche Boxster I bought in 2002. But it was present in that car and has been present in every manual equipped car since.

Likely back in the late 80's as a result of the Audi unintended acceleration lawsuits.

[Squidget]

My Celica had it in 2000. I think my Probe GT had it in 1992, but I wouldn't bet money on it.