[wunaicheng]

Hi guys,

It's about half a month before the official launch of G87, but I am still not sure if I want a manual or an 8AT. So I'd like to share my current thought and concerns. Please share yours, especially if you are also struggling so people like me can discuss and make better decisions. I guess I won't be able to test drive them if we order them right after the official launch.

I've never driven any BMW M car before, not to mention manual ones. In fact, I think the most powerful manual car I drove Golf GTI which has about 220 HP. I heard from some that S58 are so powerful so it's hard to drive manual M cars daily. I wonder if it's really that hard. Any comparison? I mean, how different is it to drive a manual Golf GTI than a manual M2? This is quite critical for me because I will drive it daily.

About the ZF8AT, I never tried it as well, at least not the M-tuned, latest ones. I heard it shifts very fast, and has better performance than a manual, but how much fun will I lose, compare to a manual? I am not a petrol head who drives manual cars for decades, so one of my major concerns is whether new drivers like me can still experience the extra fun and engagement offered by manual cars. My concern is, honestly, if I started to drive sport cars decades ago, I certainly feel manual is so much better and then might have personal bias or favor on manual because I am used to that feeling. Please share your thought on this. What is the moment or difference you feel better on a manual M car than a ZF8AT? Thanks.

Also, my current observation is that manual M cars normally have better resale value, at least for the F generation. Do you think this will be true in the future? It is so to me since auto cars have quite similar driving styles as EVs but manual cars are totally different things and will certainly disappear in the future. Cars are not an investment but if one is hard to decide, this could be a factor. Do you think the difference in resale will be significant enough for me to consider?

Thank you for any ideas and thoughts.

[DSTR]

You need to test drive some cars and decide. Not 1 test but a few of cars you find interesting.
Resale value never enters my matrix on what to buy. Drive what you like. Stop thinking about value unless your dinner is being sacrificed. Its a car. Drive it.

[TrentMeister]

As far as driving daily, do you live in a heavy traffic area?

[Tag]

Who said the S58 MT is 'harder' to drive? Sounds like they need to learn how to throttle the pedal. Get the MT if you want a more connected driving experience, get the AT if you want to go faster or do a lot of driving in traffic.

[Caerus]

I really love my M240ix, but I find myself missing the manual transmission experience. It was reinforced when I drove my friends new M4 6spd manual. So now I am going to get the M2 in a manual transmission. To me the new M2 is all about shifting manually with a clutch, throttle and gear shifter.

[Swish77]

If you're buying an M2 of any generation, I'd strongly recommend a manual. I wouldn't have it any other way. The only possible exception would be if you're a track fanatic and want that extra split-hair reaction time when shifting with the paddles. But how often will you be on the track?

Otherwise an automatic in an M2 doesn't make a lot of sense, IMHO. I never bought the argument about an auto tranny being better if you spend a lot of time in traffic. If you're worried about that, why buy an M2 in the first place? It's not supposed to be a super comfy commuter car to begin with, so you accept certain inconveniences when you buy it.

[BRAKE!]

Manual for the BMW cars. The automatic is fast but it’s not as engaging as say Porsche’s PDK, even on the track. The PDK’s downshifting and upshifting is instantaneous but the BMW auto response makes it seem like there is something standing between you and the transmission, not as snappy and that sucks the joy a little bit. However, still very fast and effective on the track no doubt. At the end of the day, we’re splitting hairs, get the transmission that will get you to drive the car more. When you’re on throttle at speed, you don’t really care that much.

Lastly, the manuals will hold their value better 100%.

[MmmmmM2]

Originally Posted by BRAKE!

Manual for the BMW cars. The automatic is fast but it’s not as engaging as say Porsche’s PDK, even on the track. The PDK’s downshifting and upshifting is instantaneous but the BMW auto response makes it seem like there is something standing between you and the transmission, not as snappy and that sucks the joy a little bit. However, still very fast and effective on the track no doubt. At the end of the day, we’re splitting hairs, get the transmission that will get you to drive the car more. When you’re on throttle at speed, you don’t really care that much.

Lastly, the manuals will hold their value better 100%.

My Dad had a 2012 911 with PDK. Loved that transmission.

I also love my DCT, but alas, it has been discontinued.

[ElHeffe]

I'm on the fence as well. One thing I'd love to hear about is how does M Drive Professional work with manual transmission. Most of the videos are about drifting which I don't care about. I'd be very interested to see someone test it on various settings and see how tail happy the car is under heavy throttle but with different M Drive Professional settings. When I drove the F87 for a bit, I found it too boring in Sport Plus but a bit tail happy in MDM. I'm sure I could of got better with more time in the F87 but I'm hoping the adjustability M Drive Professional might be the best of all worlds?

[wunaicheng]

Thanks guys for so much valuable input, anyway I decided to go with the manual. I live in the NoCal Bay area, the traffic is acceptable for most of my time.

After all, I guess there won't be any manual M car anyway. Even the future M2CS may be auto only, so I can trade in the manual one for that if I really regret in the future. But I guess it will be a little bit hard to go backward.

[kyrix1st]

No comparison, ZF8 paddle response is shit. If you are skilled enough with manual, you could drive it harder and faster. I would have gone DCT if they offered.

[GrannyShiftG80]

im worried about money shifting

how do i make sure that does not happen?

[BRAKE!]

Originally Posted by Allenssmart

im worried about money shifting

how do i make sure that does not happen?

The manuals are usually “guided” in a way where as you’re rowing through the gears it naturally clicks into the next gear up. It becomes intuitive the more you drive and some of it just has to be left up to the subconscious.

Also, the more you drive it, the more aware you become if you go into 3rd instead of 5th. You’ll get a feeling that something is wrong and just keep your left foot down on the clutch.

Nothing is 100% at the end of the day. You just have to trust yourself at some point. When you’re first starting out, just row through the gears slowly and don’t drive it up to redline, then you can make mistakes and not money shift per say

[Moflow]

Originally Posted by Allenssmart

im worried about money shifting

how do i make sure that does not happen?

Just take it easy on your shifts, you're not racing. Money shifting typically happens when you're trying to shift as quickly as possible. Even in the best possible scenario, you're putting extra wear on your clutch, synchros and gears when slamming gears with that kind of speed in a manual.

Have a little bit of mechanical sympathy when shifting and it'll never happen to you.

To OP, the only reason to get an auto IMHO is if you are tracking it a lot, if you REALLY care about straight line speed or if a manual would just be too much trouble with your use case for the vehicle (no shame!)

The MT that comes on BMW M cars is really easy to use. It will hold you on hills so you dont roll backwards, it won't stall even if you don't use the gas while taking off and it will rev match your downshifts, preventing wear and tear and making the whole experience smoother. Modern manuals are incredibly easy to use and BMW manuals in particular skew towards being easy over being "engaging."

[Bumpinjeep]

Trust me, you're doing yourself a huge favor getting the manual. The only reason I see to get an auto is if you have a bad back or issues with your legs. In that case, I would probably get a truck anyway, no point in getting a sports car just to throw it in D and go on your marry way.

[M2PDX]

Originally Posted by Caerus

I really love my M240ix, but I find myself missing the manual transmission experience. It was reinforced when I drove my friends new M4 6spd manual. So now I am going to get the M2 in a manual transmission. To me the new M2 is all about shifting manually with a clutch, throttle and gear shifter.

Agree 100%!

I have an F87, which is pushing 400hp, and have no problem driving it daily.

[702MoxyBMW]

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

Trust me, you're doing yourself a huge favor getting the manual. The only reason I see to get an auto is if you have a bad back or issues with your legs. In that case, I would probably get a truck anyway, no point in getting a sports car just to throw it in D and go on your marry way.

The one major issue is if you get the higher HP S58 engine than it won't come with the 6MT at all. I think they cut out around 450hp roughly before they like to go AT so it holds the torque better overall. I find this interesting because I have had higher hp/tq cars with manual transmissions and its doable but BMW is particular on this.

I think when getting an M2, M3 or M4 manual is probably the best option unless you can't get it like the competition models. Its just far more enticing and enjoyable.

To the OP, I would find some used versions and test drive them. The ZF transmission is nice but still no manual.

[SocalBM]

Originally Posted by 702MoxyBMW

The one major issue is if you get the higher HP S58 engine than it won't come with the 6MT at all. I think they cut out around 450hp roughly before they like to go AT so it holds the torque better overall. I find this interesting because I have had higher hp/tq cars with manual transmissions and its doable but BMW is particular on this.

I think when getting an M2, M3 or M4 manual is probably the best option unless you can't get it like the competition models. Its just far more enticing and enjoyable.

To the OP, I would find some used versions and test drive them. The ZF transmission is nice but still no manual.

Its because the manuals that BMW sources are relatively weak and can't handle a lot of torque. If they were using a Tremec or beefy Getrag, it would be different. For instance, the Viper (8.4 liter V10 with a pile of torque) used the Tremec TR6060 from the factory.

[BigKutta]

Originally Posted by BRAKE!

Manual for the BMW cars. The automatic is fast but it’s not as engaging as say Porsche’s PDK, even on the track. The PDK’s downshifting and upshifting is instantaneous but the BMW auto response makes it seem like there is something standing between you and the transmission, not as snappy and that sucks the joy a little bit. However, still very fast and effective on the track no doubt. At the end of the day, we’re splitting hairs, get the transmission that will get you to drive the car more. When you’re on throttle at speed, you don’t really care that much.

Lastly, the manuals will hold their value better 100%.

The PDK, like a DCT, is a double clutch transmission, and is an excellent transmission. I shift my DCT 100% of the time and the experience is awesome. The ZF8 is a torque converter auto and doesn't have the same feel as the DCT imo. I've driven the ZF8 in a M5 many times and I never feel like shifting myself. Its dull, boring

The G87 will have to be a MT

[TrentMeister]

Originally Posted by BigKutta

The PDK, like a DCT, is a double clutch transmission, and is an excellent transmission. I shift my DCT 100% of the time and the experience is awesome. The ZF8 is a torque converter auto and doesn't have the same feel as the DCT imo. I've driven the ZF8 in a M5 many times and I never feel like shifting myself. Its dull, boring

The G87 will have to be a MT

Zf8 in m5 is way different than m3/4

Add Xhp and the thing grabs gears like nobody's business

[rk95]

Originally Posted by Moflow

Just take it easy on your shifts, you're not racing. Money shifting typically happens when you're trying to shift as quickly as possible. Even in the best possible scenario, you're putting extra wear on your clutch, synchros and gears when slamming gears with that kind of speed in a manual.

Have a little bit of mechanical sympathy when shifting and it'll never happen to you.

To OP, the only reason to get an auto IMHO is if you are tracking it a lot, if you REALLY care about straight line speed or if a manual would just be too much trouble with your use case for the vehicle (no shame!)

The MT that comes on BMW M cars is really easy to use. It will hold you on hills so you dont roll backwards, it won't stall even if you don't use the gas while taking off and it will rev match your downshifts, preventing wear and tear and making the whole experience smoother. Modern manuals are incredibly easy to use and BMW manuals in particular skew towards being easy over being "engaging."

It won't stall?

[(K)]

Originally Posted by rk95

It won't stall?

The car gives a little bit of throttle input when releasing the clutch. I haven't tested it but my assumption is that if you're intentionally trying to stall the car by dumping the clutch without throttle, it'll stall. However, if you've accidentally misjudged the clutch take-up point in everyday driving then the car will step in and prevent you from stalling.