Cruising RPM ZF8 vs 6MT

hoss_wagon · 12-01-2022, 05:56 PM

I've got an build in the order bank with a 6MT. I was dead set on going with the 6MT since this will likely be the last generation of M-car with a manual transmission, but after playing around with an RPM calculator I'm not so sure.

Right or wrong, I made the assumption that the M2 will have the same gearing as the 2022 G80 manual and auto cars. If so, when equipped with the 6MT, the engine would be turning 2,955rpm @ 80mph but with the ZF8 it would only be 2,025 rpm @ 80mph. 900 rpm is a pretty huge difference in my book and while I'm not buying it for mpg it makes me second guess my choice.

This car will be my daily driver 8-10 months out of the year and my commute is mostly interstate. I'm not sure I'll enjoy droning along at 3k rpm on the highway for an hour a day....

Anyone driven the 6MT G80 as a daily with mostly highway driving? I'd like to hear your perspective if you have.

Does this info make anyone in a similar boat reconsider their transmission choice?

StickyPickle · 12-01-2022, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoss_wagon

Does this info make anyone in a similar boat reconsider their transmission choice?

Nope

Bumpinjeep · 12-01-2022, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoss_wagon

Does this info make anyone in a similar boat reconsider their transmission choice?

No of course not. You have a chance to buy probably the last M car with a real transmission and you're thinking of getting an auto because the RPM may be lower when you're cruising on the freeway?
I'm going to be honest with you, do you know how absurd that sounds?
No, it's not going to drone.
Order the car with the 6 speed and thank us when it's delivered and you actually want to drive it.

trey100 · 12-01-2022, 08:01 PM

F80 M3 here and yes, about 3,000 rpm at 80 mph. Never impacted my fuel consumption though. I drove mix of country roads and highway and averaged 23.5 over the course of 80k+ miles.

Game · 12-01-2022, 08:02 PM

I'm sure it'll be louder. I don't think the G87 is an ideal daily driver.

BRAKE! · 12-01-2022, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

No of course not. You have a chance to buy probably the last M car with a real transmission and you're thinking of getting an auto because the RPM may be lower when you're cruising on the freeway?
I'm going to be honest with you, do you know how absurd that sounds?
No, it's not going to drone.
Order the car with the 6 speed and thank us when it's delivered and you actually want to drive it.

Yeah... OP, buying a manual should come down to one thing - feeling more connected to the car.

Short of that reason, there is no other reason to get a manual over auto. The auto does everything else much better (to be honest, if the G87 is anything like the G80, the auto probably suits this car better than the manual) - but of course, I'm still getting a manual

Moflow · 12-01-2022, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoss_wagon

I've got an build in the order bank with a 6MT. I was dead set on going with the 6MT since this will likely be the last generation of M-car with a manual transmission, but after playing around with an RPM calculator I'm not so sure.

Right or wrong, I made the assumption that the M2 will have the same gearing as the 2022 G80 manual and auto cars. If so, when equipped with the 6MT, the engine would be turning 2,955rpm @ 80mph but with the ZF8 it would only be 2,025 rpm @ 80mph. 900 rpm is a pretty huge difference in my book and while I'm not buying it for mpg it makes me second guess my choice.

This car will be my daily driver 8-10 months out of the year and my commute is mostly interstate. I'm not sure I'll enjoy droning along at 3k rpm on the highway for an hour a day....

Anyone driven the 6MT G80 as a daily with mostly highway driving? I'd like to hear your perspective if you have.

Does this info make anyone in a similar boat reconsider their transmission choice?

For what it's worth, that's about the RPM I cruise at when i'm going 80 in my F87.

You don't really notice the engine over the sound of the tires. Unless they add a ton of sound deadening to the G87, i suspect it'll be the same. Most of the NVH at 80 mph isn't coming from the engine, i6 engines are notoriously smooth even at 3K RPM.

DrJLag420 · 12-01-2022, 08:16 PM

I'm keeping my M240 for the daily grind. The ZF is nice and smooth with quick shifts and great fuel economy. I do miss rowing the gears sometimes. That's why my M2 will be a 6-speed manual. I will probably drive it to work once in a while. Mostly a toy. And I've always wanted an M2. I wouldn't pass up a chance to get the 6-speed seeing as they are becoming less available, but you gotta do you. Happy motoring. Cheers!

trey100 · 12-01-2022, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRAKE!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

No of course not. You have a chance to buy probably the last M car with a real transmission and you're thinking of getting an auto because the RPM may be lower when you're cruising on the freeway?
I'm going to be honest with you, do you know how absurd that sounds?
No, it's not going to drone.
Order the car with the 6 speed and thank us when it's delivered and you actually want to drive it.

Yeah... OP, buying a manual should come down to one thing - feeling more connected to the car.

Short of that reason, there is no other reason to get a manual over auto. The auto does everything else much better (to be honest, if the G87 is anything like the G80, the auto probably suits this car better than the manual) - but of course, I'm still getting a manual

Even though I would get the G80 in manual as well, I would say due to physical size (not weight), the G80 is not a bad fit for an auto. But the G87 proportions are still tidy enough that a manual seems right. In the G80 you have a comp model with AWD, so there is a potential upside in the auto. But here with the G87 I wouldn't even think twice about choosing the manual over the auto.

Albator_IIII · 12-01-2022, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trey100

F80 M3 here and yes, about 3,000 rpm at 80 mph. Never impacted my fuel consumption though. I drove mix of country roads and highway and averaged 23.5 over the course of 80k+ miles.

Not bad MPG. Good to know.

zero21 · 12-02-2022, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoss_wagon

Does this info make anyone in a similar boat reconsider their transmission choice?

A little bit. Mostly because it seems needless and they could have played with ratios better as any engineering mind would gravitate toward problem solving. It's more of an annoyance than I originally considered.

But I'm still choosing it. That's the trade-off for dual personality vehicle - road car and track beast. And it won't be my daily! Haha

zero21 · 12-02-2022, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Albator_IIII

Not bad MPG. Good to know.

22-23mpg times 12.5 usable gallons is like, meh, at best.

DBV · 12-03-2022, 08:57 AM

I had similar concerns before pulling the trigger on my '16 F80 and drove the DCT and Manual before buying. The extra gear in the DCT DID account for a bit more aggressive gearing on the manual to achieve the same speed. Ultimately though, I found the sound in the cabin (that's with the so-so sounding S55), as well as the feel at 80mph just fine in the manual. Enjoyably, I was cruising at around 2750-2900 in the manual, which actually let me sit right in the torque curve - allowing for nice thrust when flooring it in 6th.

Unless you're using the M2 as a freeway commuter or are one of the die hard "must have fastest version" buyers, I consider the difference negligible, as a whole.

KC87ZB · 12-03-2022, 04:36 PM

Are we sure that the final drive ratio is the same between the MT and AT? They frequently are not.

aerobod · 12-03-2022, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TR23-87

Are we sure that the final drive ratio is the same between the MT and AT? They frequently are not.

They are not the same, The manual is 3.462:1, the automatic is 3.154:1.

More spec info in the BMW press release: https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/globa...04444EN/568008

6th gear in the manual is 0.846 for a drive ratio of 2.929:1, 8th gear in the auto is 0.640 for a drive ratio of 2.019:1.

MmmmmM2 · 12-05-2022, 12:10 PM

Not that it has any relevance on anything here, but the DCT is at about 2,500 rpm at 80mph.

meckimoo · 01-21-2025, 12:23 PM

Bringing this post back up now that there are a number of people with either the DCT or the manual. Can people chime in what the RPM's are at 80MPH for the DCT and the manual. I am in the same boat as the OP in this thread.
I do have a manual VW Golf R that I plan to keep, so I am wondering about getting the DCT as compared to another manual car.

Bimmer Frank · 01-21-2025, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meckimoo

Bringing this post back up now that there are a number of people with either the DCT or the manual. Can people chime in what the RPM's are at 80MPH for the DCT and the manual. I am in the same boat as the OP in this thread.
I do have a manual VW Golf R that I plan to keep, so I am wondering about getting the DCT as compared to another manual car.

As a point of clarification, the G87 is not a DCT, but rather a torque converter automatic.

spurcap · 01-21-2025, 12:59 PM

This car has a tiny fuel tank, gets less than 20mpg, has a back seat that is only good for adults in a pinch. If you're looking for a car that is enjoyable for long freeway trips, you are barking up the wrong tree.

BIGW0RM · 01-21-2025, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meckimoo

Bringing this post back up now that there are a number of people with either the DCT or the manual. Can people chime in what the RPM's are at 80MPH for the DCT and the manual. I am in the same boat as the OP in this thread.
I do have a manual VW Golf R that I plan to keep, so I am wondering about getting the DCT as compared to another manual car.

I recently had a 2025 G87 M2 6MT and traded it in for an 2025 auto. The 6MT got old real quick. I did not care for its gearing. 1 to 2nd comes real quick. Cruising RPM was high in 6MT.

80MPH in 6MT was around 3K RPM
80MPH in Auto is around 2K RPM.

jmg · 01-21-2025, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meckimoo

Bringing this post back up now that there are a number of people with either the DCT or the manual. Can people chime in what the RPM's are at 80MPH for the DCT and the manual. I am in the same boat as the OP in this thread.
I do have a manual VW Golf R that I plan to keep, so I am wondering about getting the DCT as compared to another manual car.

Consider this: even when not cruising at 80, but in the canyons, on the track etc, the ZF8 is better geared for the S58. You're trading off performance for the traditional experience of shifting your own gears, which many people find a more than acceptable trade-off, including what RPM the car is at on a manual.

techwhiz1 · 01-21-2025, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StickyPickle

Nope

I don't care what the ratios are in the ZF.

I would expect 8th in the ZF to be an overdrive and also 8 speeds allow for lower gearing at the last gear for cruising.

I want a MT. Don't care about automatics.

12-01-2022, 05:56 PM	#1
hoss_wagon Private 238 Rep 92 Posts Drives: 2019 X3 M40i, 2024 M2 6MT Join Date: Feb 2022 Location: STL MO iTrader: (0)	Cruising RPM ZF8 vs 6MT I've got an build in the order bank with a 6MT. I was dead set on going with the 6MT since this will likely be the last generation of M-car with a manual transmission, but after playing around with an RPM calculator I'm not so sure. Right or wrong, I made the assumption that the M2 will have the same gearing as the 2022 G80 manual and auto cars. If so, when equipped with the 6MT, the engine would be turning 2,955rpm @ 80mph but with the ZF8 it would only be 2,025 rpm @ 80mph. 900 rpm is a pretty huge difference in my book and while I'm not buying it for mpg it makes me second guess my choice. This car will be my daily driver 8-10 months out of the year and my commute is mostly interstate. I'm not sure I'll enjoy droning along at 3k rpm on the highway for an hour a day.... Anyone driven the 6MT G80 as a daily with mostly highway driving? I'd like to hear your perspective if you have. Does this info make anyone in a similar boat reconsider their transmission choice?
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12-01-2022, 08:01 PM	#4
trey100 Colonel 1128 Rep 2,564 Posts Drives: 2020 M2 Competition Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: New York iTrader: (0)	F80 M3 here and yes, about 3,000 rpm at 80 mph. Never impacted my fuel consumption though. I drove mix of country roads and highway and averaged 23.5 over the course of 80k+ miles.
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12-01-2022, 08:02 PM	#5
Game ------ 8221 Rep 10,708 Posts Drives: G80 LCI, G87 (sold) Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Chicago'ish iTrader: (26)	I'm sure it'll be louder. I don't think the G87 is an ideal daily driver. __________________
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12-01-2022, 08:16 PM	#8
DrJLag420 Lieutenant 845 Rep 512 Posts Drives: 2022 BMW M240i Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Private iTrader: (0)	I'm keeping my M240 for the daily grind. The ZF is nice and smooth with quick shifts and great fuel economy. I do miss rowing the gears sometimes. That's why my M2 will be a 6-speed manual. I will probably drive it to work once in a while. Mostly a toy. And I've always wanted an M2. I wouldn't pass up a chance to get the 6-speed seeing as they are becoming less available, but you gotta do you. Happy motoring. Cheers!
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12-03-2022, 08:57 AM	#13
DBV Captain 863 Rep 975 Posts Drives: G87 M2 and more Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Berlin iTrader: (0) Garage List 2023 BMW M2 [9.38] 2012 VW Touareg Exe ... [0.00] 2018 Brabus Smart [10.00]	I had similar concerns before pulling the trigger on my '16 F80 and drove the DCT and Manual before buying. The extra gear in the DCT DID account for a bit more aggressive gearing on the manual to achieve the same speed. Ultimately though, I found the sound in the cabin (that's with the so-so sounding S55), as well as the feel at 80mph just fine in the manual. Enjoyably, I was cruising at around 2750-2900 in the manual, which actually let me sit right in the torque curve - allowing for nice thrust when flooring it in 6th. Unless you're using the M2 as a freeway commuter or are one of the die hard "must have fastest version" buyers, I consider the difference negligible, as a whole. __________________ @DBV_ Current: '23 G87 M2 6MT / '18 Brabus Smart / VW Touareg (7P) Executive Gone: '21 G20 330d / '21 G05 X5 M50d / '18 MB C63s (632hp) / '16 F80 M3 6MT (570hp) / '09 F01 750i / '16 Abarth 595 Competizione (202hp)
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12-03-2022, 04:36 PM	#14
KC87ZB First Lieutenant 476 Rep 375 Posts Drives: 2023 M2 Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Kansas City iTrader: (0) Garage List 2023 BMW M2 [10.00]	Are we sure that the final drive ratio is the same between the MT and AT? They frequently are not.
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12-05-2022, 12:10 PM	#16
MmmmmM2 Colonel 2647 Rep 2,450 Posts Drives: 2021 M2C Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: Claremont, CA iTrader: (0) Garage List 2016 Mazda CX-5 [0.00] 2021 BMW M2C [0.00]	Not that it has any relevance on anything here, but the DCT is at about 2,500 rpm at 80mph.
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01-21-2025, 12:23 PM	#17
meckimoo Registered 0 Rep 2 Posts Drives: porsche 911 Join Date: Apr 2022 Location: colorado iTrader: (0)	Bringing this post back up now that there are a number of people with either the DCT or the manual. Can people chime in what the RPM's are at 80MPH for the DCT and the manual. I am in the same boat as the OP in this thread. I do have a manual VW Golf R that I plan to keep, so I am wondering about getting the DCT as compared to another manual car.
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01-21-2025, 12:59 PM	#19
spurcap Private 26 Rep 77 Posts Drives: 2006 330i 2025 M2 (on order) Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: New Jersey iTrader: (0)	This car has a tiny fuel tank, gets less than 20mpg, has a back seat that is only good for adults in a pinch. If you're looking for a car that is enjoyable for long freeway trips, you are barking up the wrong tree.
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