[rk95]

Out of curiosity… how many of you out there actually track your M vehicles hard? How many plan on tracking this M2 regularly? I see the comments about weight, and sure, it's nearly the same as an M4, however if you are using this vehicle as a weekend joy ride/stress reliever then why do you care about the weight? It is unlikely you will push the car to its limits on street roads regardless. Just my 2 cents, and I am genuinely curious why weight matters as much to some of you if you aren't planning on tracking the car.

[IM2C]

It's all about the base.

[tracer bullet]

I take it you've never driven a light weight sporty car? A Miata, or an old Z3 or something. You can feel the lack of inertia preventing it from doing what you want. If you took 500 lbs off any car and drove it back to back, you'd feel it, and I don't just mean in the acceleration time difference.

[rk95]

Originally Posted by tracer bullet

I take it you've never driven a light weight sporty car? A Miata, or an old Z3 or something. You can feel the lack of inertia preventing it from doing what you want. If you took 500 lbs off any car and drove it back to back, you'd feel it, and I don't just mean in the acceleration time difference.

I have not. I understand your point however, but is there not a reasonable trade off with increased power, handling, interior cockpit experience, etc all of which are based on a larger wheelbase?

[Tag]

Originally Posted by tracer bullet

I take it you've never driven a light weight sporty car? A Miata, or an old Z3 or something. You can feel the lack of inertia preventing it from doing what you want. If you took 500 lbs off any car and drove it back to back, you'd feel it, and I don't just mean in the acceleration time difference.

This. I can feel the difference with a passenger in the car and without.

[tracer bullet]

Originally Posted by rk95

I have not. I understand your point however, but is there not a reasonable trade off with increased power, handling, interior cockpit experience, etc all of which are based on a larger wheelbase?

Sure, but how about a new M2 that the only difference from the real one was that the hypothetical one was 3200 lbs?

Also for some, i.e. me, a larger car is not a bonus. This trend of "bigger = better" is a thing the manufacturers do and I guess it works for most people, but I'd like to see it end.

[JustinHEMI]

My z4 m coupe is 3,230 lbs on paper. Looking forward to the comparison.

[spool twice]

I wouldn't put much weight into the weight.

As a prior owner of a few M3's: e46, e90 and M4cs, I can tell you how stable, responsive, and cohesive the G8x chassis is after driving the RWD M3/M4 for a day at M-driving school in Spartanburg back-to-back with an F87 M2c.

Would it be better with weight reduction? Absolutely, but even as a track car as-is, the G8x cars are some really really excellent driving vehicles where never once felt lacking while attacking curves at the limit.

For those who've attended Spartanburg will understand the short and long driving courses with tight switchbacks (Aka SCCA like on one of the back courses), the left/right transitions require very little thought because they happen naturally.

Oddly, I also beat the instructors time that day by about 2 seconds on that SCCA course

[M2PDX]

Best way to answer this is to go watch the dozen or so test drives of the M2 prototype from earlier this year.

NONE of them said it felt heavy. To the contrary, they raved about what a great, nimble drivers car it is!

People are getting so hung up on weight but option it with a 6MT, Carbon roof and seats and you'll drop 75 or so lbs. Swap a lithium battery (as I've done in my F87) and you'll drop another 34 lbs. If you'd like, BBS or Apex wheels may save another 12-15 lbs.

But again.....stop speculating and go listen to the people who've actually driven it!

"Performance on par with M2CS."

[somer]

It's mostly stemmed from dropping the whole front drive assembly from the M240i X-drive (roughly 120lbs) which was already a porker, people thought they might try to save weight in other areas. But apparently the S58 and all it's running gear plus the larger brakes, whatever else essentially added back all that weight. I think people expected it to be about 100lbs less but it's not the end of the world, the wider track on cars these days disguises the weight well.

The CS will be where most people wanted the normal car to be once they give it a CF hood/trunk/ceramics/less sound insulation/no back seats. Too bad it will be 100k+ and not even guaranteed to get the CSL S58 tune.

[AlexFL]

They will get rid of 100-150 lbs for the CS version. You can also reduce some weight with forged wheels, opting for the lightweight seats, CF roof etc.

[GrannyShiftG80]

official stats is 97 kg increase

everyone making it sound like it's 300 lbs or something

[02M3ForMe]

There are far too many variables that mess with your subjective perception of weight from behind the wheel. Take away the spec sheet and I can adjust the following things to make you think one car is lighter or heavier than another:

-chassis stiffness
-suspension
-steering rack speed
-steering assist
-steering wheel diameter
-engine torque curve
-throttle pedal calibration
-brake components sizing and materials
-brake pedal calibration
-drivetrain gearing
-wheelbase length
-aero

And that’s before looking at the tires and the actual weight distribution.

Go drive an E46 M3, then a G42 M240i xDrive. The G42 is supposed to be 450 pounds heavier. You’d never know it without reading their respective spec sheets. In fact, most would think it’s the other way around.

Anyone who claims to be able to definitively tell weight differences between two different models at anything less than 10/10ths track driving should have what they say taken with a grain of salt. That's magazine racing. Even with the same model, it would take a significant weight change to meaningfully change the feel (for example, going from coupe to convertible). 200 pounds, or a +6% difference on a G87 from the F87 Comp, won’t be the primary reason one drives differently from another.

The stiffer chassis, better suspension, sharper steering, and stronger powerband will have a much bigger impact on the G87 drive versus the F87 than an extra 100kg.

As important as it is, weight isn't the be-all end-all or everyone would be driving Miatas or 25-year old Civics or whatever.

[BRAKE!]

Originally Posted by spool twice

I wouldn't put much weight into the weight.

As a prior owner of a few M3's: e46, e90 and M4cs, I can tell you how stable, responsive, and cohesive the G8x chassis is after driving the RWD M3/M4 for a day at M-driving school in Spartanburg back-to-back with an F87 M2c.

Would it be better with weight reduction? Absolutely, but even as a track car as-is, the G8x cars are some really really excellent driving vehicles where never once felt lacking while attacking curves at the limit.

For those who've attended Spartanburg will understand the short and long driving courses with tight switchbacks (Aka SCCA like on one of the back courses), the left/right transitions require very little thought because they happen naturally.

Oddly, I also beat the instructors time that day by about 2 seconds on that SCCA course

When I went to the M school last year, this was my experience as well. Even the M5 handles amazingly well, you’d be surprised at how many of the BMW instructors (who are/were race car drivers) actually prefer the M5 over all other lighter vehicles.

I do get the importance of weight reduction. If you read Adrian Newey’s book, how to build a car, his ethos on weight reduction is apparent. Likewise for Gordon Murray who put it best when he said, taking weight off is equivalent to adding HP, bigger brakes, etc.

My opinion is that if you do a lot of track work, you will want to option this car in its lightest setting and then take more weight off. If you’re driving on the road, occasional track days with CCA, auto cross, or backroads… go find something else to worry about.

[Artemis]

Two pertinent Colin Chapman quotes:

• "Simplify, then add lightness."
• "Adding power makes you faster on the straights. Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."

[M2PDX]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Two pertinent Colin Chapman quotes:

• "Simplify, then add lightness."
• "Adding power makes you faster on the straights. Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."

Very true. Fortunately, there are relatively simple ways to make this car as light as possible. Not as light as our F87s, my friend, but my bet is that once we get behind the wheel of a G87, it will surprise us!

[TrentMeister]

You can feel a heavy car vs a light one with 6mt very easily

[M2PDX]

Originally Posted by TrentMeister

You can feel a heavy car vs a light one with 6mt very easily

Heavy is relative.

Does my 6MT F87 M2 feel heavy? It should. It's 500 lbs heavier, longer and wider than my 5MT e36 M3. It does feel very solid, and larger than the e36. But heavier? Certainly not in a bad way, and I wouldn't trade the extra hp/tq and speed on a track or twisty road. I still love the e36, but the F87 ups the adrenaline across the board. I expect the same will be true of the G87, which is what those who reviewed the two prototypes on the Salzbergring indicated in spades!

[tracer bullet]

Here's the deal. No one is saying the car will suck because of its weight. People are saying the car would be even better if it weighed less.

It's just a disappointing trend even if it is inevitable.

[JustinHEMI]

It seems people are now ignoring all the test drives from earlier in the year as well.

[ASAP]

I could forget looks, weight etc... almost everything...

as long as the suspension / chassis is better than the boeing 747 suspension of the F87 with the twitchiness of a skateboard

[ronin13013]

Something else for the detractors to obsess about.
This will be silenced as well as soon as lap times are established.

Originally Posted by rk95

Out of curiosity… how many of you out there actually track your M vehicles hard? How many plan on tracking this M2 regularly? I see the comments about weight, and sure, it's nearly the same as an M4, however if you are using this vehicle as a weekend joy ride/stress reliever then why do you care about the weight? It is unlikely you will push the car to its limits on street roads regardless. Just my 2 cents, and I am genuinely curious why weight matters as much to some of you if you aren't planning on tracking the car.