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      02-13-2023, 10:33 PM   #199
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No auto and no Xdrive please. We do not need another pig in the lineup.

MT/DCT or nothing.
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      02-13-2023, 10:47 PM   #200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyrix1st View Post
No auto and no Xdrive please. We do not need another pig in the lineup.

MT/DCT or nothing.
Correction:

MT/RWD or nothing.

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      02-14-2023, 07:18 PM   #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtoosexy View Post
Correction:

MT/RWD or nothing.

Yes, I agree MT&RWD is the best combo.

I mentioned DCT&RWD as I will take that combo over any xDrive or torque converter auto bs. It may very well be a possible M2 offering when Supra GRMN comes out with S58 & DCT combo.
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      02-14-2023, 07:28 PM   #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyrix1st View Post
Yes, I agree MT&RWD is the best combo.

I mentioned DCT&RWD as I will take that combo over any xDrive or torque converter auto bs. It may very well be a possible M2 offering when Supra GRMN comes out with S58 & DCT combo.
Why would BMW put an S58 in a Toyota? That sounds very wishful.
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      02-14-2023, 07:42 PM   #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zero21 View Post
Why would BMW put an S58 in a Toyota? That sounds very wishful.
GRMN is intended to be a track focused Supra (debuting 2024 I think?). The "news" has been around for quite a while; you can find a bunch of articles addressing it.
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      02-14-2023, 07:55 PM   #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyrix1st View Post
GRMN is intended to be a track focused Supra (debuting 2024 I think?). The "news" has been around for quite a while; you can find a bunch of articles addressing it.
The last time any news source reported something on this was purely a rumor and last April. It's been nearly a year with zero confirmation from any source.

I'm not saying my opinion is a guarantee, but it's definitely closure to being wishful thinking.

Edit: and I forgot to mention how wild the speculation ranged: from 479 to the M4CSL's 540hp. Yeah, that's pretty damn wishful.

For an auto manufacturer to dump an extra 170hp into a chassis you'd need to practically re-engineer it.
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      02-14-2023, 08:03 PM   #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T_U_D View Post
Old news.

FYI, if it is anything like the G80/G82 Comp, the G87 Comp will be automatic and xDrive only.
FYI, the G80/G82 Comp have both RWD & xDrive drivetrains to offer!

The F87 M2 CS had a 6MT but the F80/82 CS were DCT only. If history repeats itself, the G87 variants won't be anything like the G80/82's
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      02-14-2023, 09:07 PM   #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karmic Man View Post
FYI, the G80/G82 Comp have both RWD & xDrive drivetrains to offer!

The F87 M2 CS had a 6MT but the F80/82 CS were DCT only. If history repeats itself, the G87 variants won't be anything like the G80/82's
Yes, I am aware. 8 speed ZF auto only in either case.

The G80 M3 CS is xDrive and auto only. The G82 M4 CSL while RWD is also auto only. The toque is allegedly the issue in regards to a manual not being offered in a S58 G8X Comp, CS, and CSL.

Sadly the DCT is DOA.

Last edited by T_U_D; 02-15-2023 at 10:03 AM..
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      05-27-2023, 01:43 PM   #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T_U_D View Post
Old news.

FYI, if it is anything like the G80/G82 Comp, the G87 Comp will be automatic and xDrive only.
wonder if the G80/82 manuals will get a power bump with the LCIs and comp versions getting bumped to 525hp. if it does then could make room for a comp manual G87.
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      05-27-2023, 09:27 PM   #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T_U_D View Post
Yes, I am aware. 8 speed ZF auto only in either case.

The G80 M3 CS is xDrive and auto only. The G82 M4 CSL while RWD is also auto only. The toque is allegedly the issue in regards to a manual not being offered in a S58 G8X Comp, CS, and CSL.

Sadly the DCT is DOA.
They don't have to increase the peak torque. Max torque can remain at 550Nm, just increase torque at the top end (say after 5k rpm) and power will increase since power is a function of torque at a certain rpm.

For example, the F87C and F87 CS both have the same peak torque but the CS has a more aggressive DME tuning after 5k rpm.
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      05-27-2023, 09:46 PM   #209
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i wonder why they can't use the f10 m5 manual gearbox. that car had 500 torque at 1500 rpm.
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      05-28-2023, 02:43 AM   #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpmoney View Post
so by this logic, those of us wanting 6MT are unlikely to benefit from waiting a year or two for the G87 comp which if ends up being built won’t come in a manual…just like G8x manual buyers they won’t get a power bump even with LCI. that being said it seems the G87 S58 is significantly underrated anyway…so there isnt much room in the hierarchy.
That sounds mostly right to me.

However, while peak torque can't be raised, non-peak areas could be raised. Using the IND dyno run as a reference, non-peak is from 6K** to redline. Boosting torque here will also increase peak HP. But really, "improving" the S58 just means reverting to what the M3/M4 already has.

As far as "room in the hierarchy," I think that's the bigger sticking point. The problem isn't technical, it's business, else BMW wouldn't have detuned the S58 in the first place.

My totally uniformed wild ass guesses:

1. There won't be a C. (If so, I predict no manual.)

2. The CS will have peak TQ and HP bumps but be very expensive and have poor bang-for-buck. (To protect the M3/M4.) Also no manual or DCT.

3. The base G87 LCI will receive tiny bumps for marketing purposes (+10HP, -10lb AKA forged wheels) and lose the manual*. Maybe gain some more cosmetic options.


*because as the ICE/MT era winds down, BMW will be incentivized to drop the MT option so they can carry less parts inventory. The take rate will have to be incredible to keep the MT alive, so I'm betting against it (see: M240i).

**5870 RPM is the precise number according to Tag.

Last edited by Squidget; 05-28-2023 at 02:54 AM..
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      05-28-2023, 03:00 AM   #211
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If we look at the F-series, the M2 CS received the same tuning as the M3/4C, while the M3/4CS was a step above.
It seems reasonable to expect a G87 M2 CS with the same power and torque as the current M3/4C, and auto only.
I don't see any room for the M2C, but we'll see.
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      05-28-2023, 11:10 AM   #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VIERsr View Post
If we look at the F-series, the M2 CS received the same tuning as the M3/4C, while the M3/4CS was a step above.
It seems reasonable to expect a G87 M2 CS with the same power and torque as the current M3/4C, and auto only.
I don't see any room for the M2C, but we'll see.
CS even if comes in manual would be great for a very select few but at the CS price tag it kind of defeats the entire value proposition of the M2.
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      05-28-2023, 11:31 AM   #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpmoney View Post
CS even if comes in manual would be great for a very select few but at the CS price tag it kind of defeats the entire value proposition of the M2.
I remember all the ppl on the forum crying out loud how the F87CS was a rip off and not worth its price
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      05-28-2023, 12:50 PM   #214
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Originally Posted by PLF69 View Post
I remember all the ppl on the forum crying out loud how the F87CS was a rip off and not worth its price
I still think so, and here it had a hard time selling at list price, many went unsold after production ended despite very limited production (as also happened with the M4CS).
Great cars, but really overpriced, I don't know about the U.S., but here they were both 50% higher than the prices of the respective Competition models, and now they are both below list price (and will probably drop even more if/when the G82 and G87 CS are launched), basically having the same depreciation as the Competition, but starting from a much higher list price. Definitely not a bargain.

Last edited by VIERsr; 05-28-2023 at 12:59 PM..
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      05-28-2023, 09:17 PM   #215
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So I sell at a BMW dealership, my two cents (I have a g87 6MT), my friends around BMW have told me the M2 comp was canned and they're only adding more colors 2024 calendar year, and then the CS in 2025 calendar year
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      05-28-2023, 09:27 PM   #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PLF69 View Post
I remember all the ppl on the forum crying out loud how the F87CS was a rip off and not worth its price
its only worth the price if you 1) can't justify a cayman gts in your life 2)you think the carbon add ons are worth it.

my m2c was specced by the previous owner to 79k from factory (m performance exhaust, gold 763m wheels, spoiler, side winglets). I added on the diffuser and front lip myself for 2400 or something around that.

the m2cs gets the diffuser, lip, wing, and 763m standard. Plus the carbon hood, roof, cup2, adaptive suspension, and m4 competition seats.
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      05-29-2023, 12:15 AM   #217
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Originally Posted by PLF69 View Post
I remember all the ppl on the forum crying out loud how the F87CS was a rip off and not worth its price
i love the CS as much as anyone, but i just think its not a compelling value package for the price when well into P car territory.
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      05-29-2023, 12:16 AM   #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spademonkey View Post
So I sell at a BMW dealership, my two cents (I have a g87 6MT), my friends around BMW have told me the M2 comp was canned and they're only adding more colors 2024 calendar year, and then the CS in 2025 calendar year
those colors i'm assuming are just the two announced frozen ones?
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      05-29-2023, 12:23 AM   #219
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So I certainly hope they add more colors than that cause they were kinda underwhelming, also to your PM, we’re only on our 2nd allocation rn (mine was our first and didn’t arrive till beginning of May due to port installed part delay) and we’ve been not doing customer custom orders yet, Penske dealer so that’s the way they’re doing the first few allocations. Pricing is MSRP+$5500 in 7 year warranty ceramic coating and xpel on door edges, exterior door cups, and trunk entrance.
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      05-29-2023, 10:23 AM   #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpmoney View Post
those colors i'm assuming are just the two announced frozen ones?
Yes, more than likely that is it for MY24. Next best opportunity could possibly come in March/April 2024. That is a total guess though.
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