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      10-26-2022, 02:03 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by carjoy View Post
Then go ahead and pay BMW what they ask. I'm not paying $80k plus for a base M2 after tax and finance costs, which will be around the price as most enthusiasts will want the nice Carbon bits. Who wants a base model in base form? Not many. If I have to do that I'd rather look elsewhere and get a car the way I want within my budget.

BMW bundled the seats instead of offering them separately, forcing buyers to pick all or nothing. If you don't mind then pony up. If you were talking about the CS or even the Competition model maybe, but $80k for a base M2?

No sir.
If you spec it like a F87 M2 Comp, comparable builds in most cases you will be within $1k-$2k of 2020 pricing. In some cases you might actually be less than F87, if you want an auto.

Now if you want to be greedy and spec every new option, then yes you will be spending more. That is on you though, not BMW. Those new options are not provided for free. They already made moonroof($1050 on F87) and adaptive suspension(only on CS) standard.

I guess BMW could have provided a watered down option list like the F87 to make you happy.

Last edited by M3WC; 10-26-2022 at 02:11 PM..
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      10-26-2022, 02:10 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by M3WC View Post
Where is the greed? The G87 auto is actually cheaper than F87 auto with sunroof.

Greed is expecting BMW to offer all these new options for free.
The base G87 is approximately $55k in 2019 dollars. It is cheaper than an F87 Competition, full stop. No idea how one could’ve realistically expected a better deal than this.

There is no cheaper way to get the S58 bolted to a chassis with 4 wheels and a warranty (both standard and maintenance).

Value for money, it completely obliterates the overpriced F87s we’ve seen for the past year or so.
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      10-26-2022, 02:10 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Roosterdentures View Post
What do you dislike about the adaptive suspension? As someone who lives near rough roads it seems like a godsend.
I have adaptive suspension on my Golf R. 99.9% of the time, it's in the "Normal" mode, or middle of 3 settings. Why? Because all these fancy adaptive systems do is alter the shock valving. The spring rates are what they are. You can't optimize a single spring rate for 3 different settings on the shocks/struts. One of the F87 engineers commented on this in one of the M2c videos when he was asked why it wasn't included in the F87. Funny how when you actually ask an engineer rather than a marketing guy, you get a straight answer. He said basically what I'm saying - you can optimize for one shock setting, that's it. So when you soften the shocks, you're over-sprung, and when you go stiffer than normal, you're under-sprung. And that's exactly how my Golf R feels in either of the other modes.
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      10-26-2022, 02:18 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by marseille82 View Post
Touché lol.
I'll rephrase: my salary didn't get inflated at the same rate. Maybe it's time to change my field of work but I love what I do.
Time to just change how you do it and who you do it for.

I was recruited during COVID to work on chips for a different company and my base went up by 25% and total compensation went up by more than that.

Time for the big move.
The thing is I work for my own non-profit org so I can't really pay myself more lol. I'm not complaining though.
But I hear you. My wife total comp substantially went up when she switch company last year. Guess she will pay for the M2
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      10-26-2022, 02:19 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinC View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roosterdentures View Post
What do you dislike about the adaptive suspension? As someone who lives near rough roads it seems like a godsend.
I have adaptive suspension on my Golf R. 99.9% of the time, it's in the "Normal" mode, or middle of 3 settings. Why? Because all these fancy adaptive systems do is alter the shock valving. The spring rates are what they are. You can't optimize a single spring rate for 3 different settings on the shocks/struts. One of the F87 engineers commented on this in one of the M2c videos when he was asked why it wasn't included in the F87. Funny how when you actually ask an engineer rather than a marketing guy, you get a straight answer. He said basically what I'm saying - you can optimize for one shock setting, that's it. So when you soften the shocks, you're over-sprung, and when you go stiffer than normal, you're under-sprung. And that's exactly how my Golf R feels in either of the other modes.
I am suprised someone actually gets this... this is why the CS adaptive suspension marketing made me lol... almost all reviewers said it just made the car a tiny bit more comfortable on a few bumpy roads.
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      10-26-2022, 02:28 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinC View Post
I have adaptive suspension on my Golf R. 99.9% of the time, it's in the "Normal" mode, or middle of 3 settings. Why? Because all these fancy adaptive systems do is alter the shock valving. The spring rates are what they are. You can't optimize a single spring rate for 3 different settings on the shocks/struts. One of the F87 engineers commented on this in one of the M2c videos when he was asked why it wasn't included in the F87. Funny how when you actually ask an engineer rather than a marketing guy, you get a straight answer. He said basically what I'm saying - you can optimize for one shock setting, that's it. So when you soften the shocks, you're over-sprung, and when you go stiffer than normal, you're under-sprung. And that's exactly how my Golf R feels in either of the other modes.
I had a Focus RS before my M2 which was pretty much the worst 'adaptive suspension' as far as usefulness. You pretty much only turned it on to show people how it turned the car into a pogo stick then immediately turned it back off. Now I am sure there are much better implementations of it but similar to your example, I will probably keep it on one setting 99% of the time in the G87.
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      10-26-2022, 02:51 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carjoy View Post
Then go ahead and pay BMW what they ask. I'm not paying $80k plus for a base M2 after tax and finance costs, which will be around the price as most enthusiasts will want the nice Carbon bits. Who wants a base model in base form? Not many. If I have to do that I'd rather look elsewhere and get a car the way I want within my budget.

BMW bundled the seats instead of offering them separately, forcing buyers to pick all or nothing. If you don't mind then pony up. If you were talking about the CS or even the Competition model maybe, but $80k for a base M2?

No sir.
How's an 80k M2 a base car? That's literally every opinion minus the carbon pack.
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      10-26-2022, 02:58 PM   #96
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What do you get different with Live Cockpit Pro besides adding the HUD? Is this just $1100 for a HUD?
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      10-26-2022, 03:09 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Game View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by carjoy View Post
Then go ahead and pay BMW what they ask. I'm not paying $80k plus for a base M2 after tax and finance costs, which will be around the price as most enthusiasts will want the nice Carbon bits. Who wants a base model in base form? Not many. If I have to do that I'd rather look elsewhere and get a car the way I want within my budget.

BMW bundled the seats instead of offering them separately, forcing buyers to pick all or nothing. If you don't mind then pony up. If you were talking about the CS or even the Competition model maybe, but $80k for a base M2?

No sir.
How's an 80k M2 a base car? That's literally every opinion minus the carbon pack.
When you equip this car in its bare form of course not. When you put a few nice bits as most of us will surely do it's edging 70k. Add, tag/title, dealers fees, markup, taxes, and financing then ask me again? You can't just look at the MSRP.
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      10-26-2022, 03:10 PM   #98
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Quote:
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Plus the tax, finance charge, etc.. No matter how we spin it, the new M2 is no longer the affordable entry into M cars it once was. When inflation comes down, these prices will likely remain the same. That tells me greed is in the drivers seat and run amok.

Love this ride, potential to be an amazing looking car with some mods, but paying over 80k after taxes and financing costs is well beyond the realm of affordable when you consider most will also want some M Performance parts, to customize their car.

A little deflating truthfully.
The spec I'd wants adds up to $68,700. That's a good deal!

An S58 engine with adaptive suspension, Carbon Roof and a 6MT! Wow.

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      10-26-2022, 03:13 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qballis View Post
What do you get different with Live Cockpit Pro besides adding the HUD? Is this just $1100 for a HUD?
Quote:
Originally Posted by carjoy View Post
When you equip this car in its bare form of course not. When you put a few nice bits as most of us will surely do it's edging 70k. Add, tag/title, dealers fees, markup, taxes, and financing then ask me again? You can't just look at the MSRP.
But that's what BMW did a great job of doing...making this car affordable in base form with plenty of standard options but giving you the ability to splurge if you'd like. Makes no sense to think you're going to fully load it up and not spend 80k.
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      10-26-2022, 03:14 PM   #100
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What's the deal with the Parking Assistant deleting the Rearview Camera and Park Distance Control? Does that mean it's included in the Parking Assistant option?
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      10-26-2022, 03:19 PM   #101
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What's the deal with the Parking Assistant deleting the Rearview Camera and Park Distance Control? Does that mean it's included in the Parking Assistant option?
Both are standard in the US. This just gives you the ability to self park (and will still include both).
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      10-26-2022, 03:20 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by qballis View Post
What do you get different with Live Cockpit Pro besides adding the HUD? Is this just $1100 for a HUD?
Sure looks that way.

$1550 on the M3 (Executive Package) includes HUD, Heated Steering Wheel (-$200), Power Tailgate (not available on the 2 series), SensaTec Dash.

$1950 on the M240 (Premium Package) includes HUD, Adaptive Full LED lights (-$650), Heated Seats(STD), Heated Steering Wheel (-$200), Universal Carhole Opener(STD).

Based on these comparisons, looks like HUD is $1100 for the M2

Still not sure I'll add it for $1100. Don't use it on my R. Plus hard to see with my polarized sunglasses
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      10-26-2022, 03:22 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by DrJLag420 View Post
What's the deal with the Parking Assistant deleting the Rearview Camera and Park Distance Control? Does that mean it's included in the Parking Assistant option?
Both are standard in the US. This just gives you the ability to self park (and will still include both).
So no 3D cameras? Just self parking? I don't need that if that's the case. I wanted that top view (surround view w/3D view on the M240 with Parking Assistant Package $700)

Tried using the park assist on the R. Didn't trust it. No thanks. I'll park myself.
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      10-26-2022, 03:24 PM   #104
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Both are standard in the US. This just gives you the ability to self park (and will still include both).
I assume by self park you mean it parallel parking itself? How is that supposed to work in a manual?
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      10-26-2022, 03:29 PM   #105
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What is the M racetrack pack?
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      10-26-2022, 03:29 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Game View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by qballis View Post
What do you get different with Live Cockpit Pro besides adding the HUD? Is this just $1100 for a HUD?
Quote:
Originally Posted by carjoy View Post
When you equip this car in its bare form of course not. When you put a few nice bits as most of us will surely do it's edging 70k. Add, tag/title, dealers fees, markup, taxes, and financing then ask me again? You can't just look at the MSRP.
But that's what BMW did a great job of doing...making this car affordable in base form with plenty of standard options but giving you the ability to splurge if you'd like. Makes no sense to think you're going to fully load it up and not spend 80k.
You still miss my point. Give us the option of getting the buckets without paying for $5,500 worth of crap for things some don't want. I understand I can get a base car for a more "affordable" 64k.

It is what it is and some will gladly pay for the other things to get the bucket, IMO, it shouldn't be all or nothing.
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      10-26-2022, 03:30 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJLag420 View Post
So no 3D cameras? Just self parking? I don't need that if that's the case. I wanted that top view (surround view w/3D view on the M240 with Parking Assistant Package $700)

Tried using the park assist on the R. Didn't trust it. No thanks. I'll park myself.
No 360 cameras. Skipping that as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mynameisnick4 View Post
I assume by self park you mean it parallel parking itself? How is that supposed to work in a manual?
It does the steering, you do the shifting.
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      10-26-2022, 03:35 PM   #108
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How's an 80k M2 a base car? That's literally every opinion minus the carbon pack.
We've seen variations of those comments many times here. Really makes you wonder where humanity is headed.

Cue to even magazines complaining about a 'six figure M3' when they've optioned CCB brakes, CF buckets, etc.

There is a lot of value in the 'base' version of any M. That BMW offers cool options like CF seats is a blessing, not a curse.
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      10-26-2022, 03:45 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Game View Post
How's an 80k M2 a base car? That's literally every opinion minus the carbon pack.
We've seen variations of those comments many times here. Really makes you wonder where humanity is headed.

Cue to even magazines complaining about a 'six figure M3' when they've optioned CCB brakes, CF buckets, etc.

There is a lot of value in the 'base' version of any M. That BMW offers cool options like CF seats is a blessing, not a curse.
Just don't bundle it in a damn 10k package and make an expensive car even more unaffordable. BMW isn't doing anyone here a favor. Without us enthusiasts they wouldn't be relevant. Not saying adding options doesn't raise the price of a car, that's obvious, but make the freaking packages flexible.
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      10-26-2022, 03:50 PM   #110
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Just more proof that 90% of the people here buy BMWs cause they can't afford Porsches, not cause they actually want the BMWs.
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I still don't want to be forced to pay $2k for one m-track day that I do for free through work. $7900 for cf roof, buckets and trim is doable. $10k is pushing it.

The extra 5+ month wait sucks too. I put a deposit down 7 months ago to avoid this
I agree as the M driver's is way too expensive for what it is. But it's not 5+ months. 3 is more like it. They're not starting production until December right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by carjoy View Post
Then go ahead and pay BMW what they ask. I'm not paying $80k plus for a base M2 after tax and finance costs, which will be around the price as most enthusiasts will want the nice Carbon bits. Who wants a base model in base form? Not many. If I have to do that I'd rather look elsewhere and get a car the way I want within my budget.

BMW bundled the seats instead of offering them separately, forcing buyers to pick all or nothing. If you don't mind then pony up. If you were talking about the CS or even the Competition model maybe, but $80k for a base M2?

No sir.
Quote:
Originally Posted by carjoy View Post
When you equip this car in its bare form of course not. When you put a few nice bits as most of us will surely do it's edging 70k. Add, tag/title, dealers fees, markup, taxes, and financing then ask me again? You can't just look at the MSRP.
Lol at this. Dude if you want the bucket seats you pay the $10k. But it's not a base M, it has the carbon package.
Why are you even talking about "tag/title, dealers fees, markup, taxes, and financing" you have that in every single car you buy. What does that even have to do with the price of this car and it being affordable or not? The only thing that even changes is the taxes but you have to pay all of that anyway.
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