[Ravenseal]

I don't know how people are calling the F87 a good value nowadays, specially the newer M2C models. Before deciding on the G87, I looked at a few F87s (2019+) and boy were dealerships absolutely on crack. At one point I drove a 2020 with 7,000~ miles and the dealership wanted $72,000 for it.

Let that sink in.

7 2 , 0 0 0 DOLLARS

For a pre-abused car, with unknown use, and 2 fewer years of warranty.

If we lived in a pre-pandemic world where BMWs lost 40% of their value the moment they left the dealership, then yeah. I would buy a lightly used N55 F87 for $35,000~. Now you have to reach really deep to find a good value F87. We're talking pre-LCI, N55, 60,000+ miles, for maybe $45,000~. You're entirely out of the warranty period at that point, and losing out on new technologies and features. Obviously you're not getting the S55 or the S58.

My G87 was spec'd exactly how I wanted it at 67k - with the carbon roof - and I don't have to worry about a single thing for 5 years. I'm entirely ok with that value proposition.

[Ravenseal]

Originally Posted by Ravenseal

I don't know how people are calling the F87 a good value nowadays, specially the newer M2C models. Before deciding on the G87, I looked at a few F87s (2019+) and boy were dealerships absolutely on crack. At one point I drove a 2020 with 7,000~ miles and the dealership wanted $72,000 for it.

Let that sink in.

7 2 , 0 0 0 DOLLARS

For a pre-abused car, with unknown use, and 2 fewer years of warranty.

If we lived in a pre-pandemic world where BMWs lost 40% of their value the moment they left the dealership, then yeah. I would buy a lightly used N55 F87 for $35,000~. Now you have to reach really deep to find a good value F87. We're talking pre-LCI, N55, 60,000+ miles, for maybe $45,000~. You're entirely out of the warranty period at that point, and losing out on new technologies and features. Obviously you're not getting the S55 or the S58.

My G87 was spec'd exactly how I wanted it at 67k - with the carbon roof - and I don't have to worry about a single thing for 5 years. I'm entirely ok with that value proposition.

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/c...-c0ef06b03b26/

Yeah. I'm rolling on the floor guys.

[M2PDX]

Originally Posted by Ravenseal

I don't know how people are calling the F87 a good value nowadays, specially the newer M2C models. Before deciding on the G87, I looked at a few F87s (2019+) and boy were dealerships absolutely on crack. At one point I drove a 2020 with 7,000~ miles and the dealership wanted $72,000 for it.

Let that sink in.

7 2 , 0 0 0 DOLLARS

For a pre-abused car, with unknown use, and 2 fewer years of warranty.

If we lived in a pre-pandemic world where BMWs lost 40% of their value the moment they left the dealership, then yeah. I would buy a lightly used N55 F87 for $35,000~. Now you have to reach really deep to find a good value F87. We're talking pre-LCI, N55, 60,000+ miles, for maybe $45,000~. You're entirely out of the warranty period at that point, and losing out on new technologies and features. Obviously you're not getting the S55 or the S58.

My G87 was spec'd exactly how I wanted it at 67k - with the carbon roof - and I don't have to worry about a single thing for 5 years. I'm entirely ok with that value proposition.

I'm happy to sell you my 2018 OG M2, 6MT with 21,450 miles for $55,750 cash. Special deal for today only!

[Teutonic]

why BMW gave them that engine and agree to share the interior is still a question mark for me...

[2008M36MT]

LOL at the Supra beating the G87. Seems like not only the styling but the performance is a massive fail for the G87.

[Ravenseal]

Originally Posted by 2008M36MT

LOL at the Supra beating the G87. Seems like not only the styling but the performance is a massive fail for the G87.

The real losers are the people who want a Supra with a 6MT, because you can't find one.

[MMMGuy60]

Originally Posted by mynameisnick4

Looks are subjective of course, but I find the Supra much better looking than the G87 (and I am getting a G87.) Now I haven't seen the G87 in person yet but I was surprised by how much better I liked the Supra after seeing it in person so my opinion could change when I do finally see a G87 in the flesh.

I think a lot of people will be surprised when they see the G87 for the first time. I hate the rear of the G87 in most photos. In person, the rear end was very nice look and just fit the rest of the car. It doesn't stick out like the photos online.

[2008M36MT]

Originally Posted by Ravenseal

The real losers are the people who want a Supra with a 6MT, because you can't find one.

Not sure what you're talking about but I think both the Supra and the G87 look like crap. In no universe, well except this forum, should it be OK for the Supra to be faster than a brand new M product on a track.

[Ravenseal]

Originally Posted by 2008M36MT

Not sure what you're talking about but I think both the Supra and the G87 look like crap. In no universe, well except this forum, should it be OK for the Supra to be faster than a brand new M product on a track.

The Supra is 600lbs lighter. It has its own merits, which is why I don't understand why it constantly gets shoved into the conversation with the M2 when the real competitors for that car are 400Z and base Cayman.

[2008M36MT]

Originally Posted by Ravenseal

The Supra is 600lbs lighter. It has its own merits, which is why I don't understand why it constantly gets shoved into the conversation with the M2 when the real competitors for that car are 400Z and base Cayman.

In today’s world I think weight is less and less significant when evaluating track performance. There are plenty of heavier cars outperforming lighter ones on a track. At least from what I read, the Supra was never lauded as a world conqueror when it came out. I just expected more of the M2. Maybe it’s an unreasonable expectation.

[omak81]

So what your saying is the F87 CS is the way to go if you want a true M drivers car.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by Ravenseal

The Supra is 600lbs lighter. It has its own merits, which is why I don't understand why it constantly gets shoved into the conversation with the M2 when the real competitors for that car are 400Z and base Cayman.

Yeah, it's so weird. The M2 segment is "4 seat sports daily driver coupe with a trunk." The Supra segment is "2 seat sports coupe with almost no practicality."

And EVEN so, with all the things the Supra makes you give up, it is barely faster on a pure track test, if you are an advanced driver. The Supra is a bit cheaper TBF.

Draw your own conclusions, I guess.

[zero21]

Originally Posted by SW19

Hard to be believe that one of the reviewers thinks that the Supra is a good looking car.That thing is hideous.

Right? It looks like a sucker fish / bottom feeder.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by 2008M36MT

I just expected more of the M2. Maybe it’s an unreasonable expectation.

I think it is unreasonable yes. This is a first year base M2. Not a CS, not a CSL. Also not an M3, or M4.

The G87 is a FAR better performer, relative to its peers, than the OG base F87 ever was. It's Comp levels of performance, it just lacks the badge.

[JustinHEMI]

Originally Posted by 2008M36MT

LOL at the Supra beating the G87. Seems like not only the styling but the performance is a massive fail for the G87.

*laugh react*

[zero21]

Originally Posted by Ravenseal

The Supra is 600lbs lighter. It has its own merits, which is why I don't understand why it constantly gets shoved into the conversation with the M2 when the real competitors for that car are 400Z and base Cayman.

I don't get where people are throwing these numbers around. The Supra is right at 3400lbs. The M2 is 3750-3775 in carbon roof form.

That is not anywhere near 600lbs. The Supra was 2 tenths quicker on track being 350-375lbs less.

[MmmmmM2]

Originally Posted by Ravenseal

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/c...-c0ef06b03b26/

Yeah. I'm rolling on the floor guys.

"Don't lowball me. I know what I've got!"

[JustinHEMI]

Originally Posted by MmmmmM2

"Don't lowball me. I know what I've got!"

He's probably one of those silly heads that thought the G87 release elevated the value of the F87.

[MmmmmM2]

Originally Posted by JustinHEMI

He's probably one of those silly heads that thought the G87 release elevated the value of the F87.

On that we agree, my friend.

[Ravenseal]

Originally Posted by zero21

I don't get where people are throwing these numbers around. The Supra is right at 3400lbs. The M2 is 3750-3775 in carbon roof form.

That is not anywhere near 600lbs. The Supra was 2 tenths quicker on track being 350-375lbs less.

It's annoying. Tons of people arguing in bad faith just rounding up the numbers. I've lost track of how people call the M2 ERMGEDHED 4000LB M2 DAE BMW LOST DAE WAE UNLIKE MIATER.

We've all seen the car weigh in at 3,750lbs with the carbon roof and the manual gear box, and that with > 1/2 tank of gas. It's all exaggeration for the sake of winning fake internet arguments.

[JustinHEMI]

Originally Posted by Ravenseal

It's annoying. Tons of people arguing in bad faith just rounding up the numbers. I've lost track of how people call the M2 ERMGEDHED 4000LB M2 DAE BMW LOST DAE WAE UNLIKE MIATER.

We've all seen the car weigh in at 3,750lbs with the carbon roof and the manual gear box, and that with > 1/2 tank of gas. It's all exaggeration for the sake of winning fake internet arguments.

Boom. Nailed it and is what I am getting at with that guy and his "massive failure" silliness.

It's all so tiresome.

[zero21]

Originally Posted by Ravenseal

It's annoying. Tons of people arguing in bad faith just rounding up the numbers. I've lost track of how people call the M2 ERMGEDHED 4000LB M2 DAE BMW LOST DAE WAE UNLIKE MIATER.

We've all seen the car weigh in at 3,750lbs with the carbon roof and the manual gear box, and that with > 1/2 tank of gas. It's all exaggeration for the sake of winning fake internet arguments.

I'll remind everyone that mine was 3735 with 90% gas with my 827M's. The biggest factor in performance seems to unfortunately be the torque curve being 1000RPM off where BMW advertised it at 2650RPM. This dramatically affects me about the engine/powertrain as I was banking on low-end torque and BMW lied about it.

I hate to say this but the N55, S55, B58, and other S58's just have way flatter torque curves. We got shafted on this and will require a tune to fix it. Thomas wasn't 100% wrong.

Edit: and I'd love for IND to explain how they got their power curve to shift 350RPM to 3k for peak torque.