[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by RoccoVA

When I heard "Scion TC" my eyes rolled so hard I briefly saw my own assh*le

Hilarious I understand what you’re saying

I think he’s mostly referring to how generic the design is on the G87

And he’s actually not wrong

It is extremely generic

[zero21]

Originally Posted by ///M TOWN

Hilarious I understand what you’re saying

I think he’s mostly referring to how generic the design is on the G87

And he’s actually not wrong

It is extremely generic

So generic that it looks like tons of other cars

[Ravenseal]

Originally Posted by zero21

so generic that it looks like tons of other cars

Did you know cars have car shape?!

[zero21]

Originally Posted by Ravenseal

It's annoying. Tons of people arguing in bad faith just rounding up the numbers. I've lost track of how people call the M2 ERMGEDHED 4000LB M2 DAE BMW LOST DAE WAE UNLIKE MIATER.

We've all seen the car weigh in at 3,750lbs with the carbon roof and the manual gear box, and that with > 1/2 tank of gas. It's all exaggeration for the sake of winning fake internet arguments.

My other point was just how much better the chassis is sorted (including braking) with a similar power to weight ratio.

[Ravenseal]

Originally Posted by zero21

My other point was just how much better the chassis is sorted (including braking) with a similar power to weight ratio.

Yeah. They don't care or want to know exactly where or why the weight is coming from. They just want to pile on because "BMW BAD!". Obviously BMW is just throwing sandbags in the trunk because they hate enthusiasts.

[Squidget]

sigh. Lord help me, why do people always get so twitchy about motors, even motors from the same company.

BMW is best inline 6 motor maker in the world, all of these motors won accolades, have great performance properties, are reasonably reliable, and (except for the early N55) are usually pretty tunable.

They also are all used in enough cars that there's no "wait and see." The sample size is large enough, there's no unknowns here.

The things I think are true:

1. Plenty of motors in both the N/B and S lines have had their quirks or teething problems. And yes, that includes the B58, it wasn't perfect either. No motor is. There's no strong evidence of any reliability delta, as far as I know.

2. The N/B line has one dual scroll turbo, the S has two turbos. That fundamental fact has consequences. The N/B is more fun around town at the low end but gasses out at the high end. The S goes strong all the way to redline, has more peak torque, more HP, and more power under curve. The S is simply the more capable track motor, and can be tuned higher, and that's by design.

3. Of course, this ALSO means that the S has a lot more support hardware (coolers, etc.) and weighs and costs more.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by zero21

I hate to say this but the N55, S55, B58, and other S58's just have way flatter torque curves. We got shafted on this and will require a tune to fix it. Thomas wasn't 100% wrong.

Edit: and I'd love for IND to explain how they got their power curve to shift 350RPM to 3k for peak torque.

Yes, this is the weirdest part of the whole G87 story so far. The tuning is weird, and there's some evidence that BMW really hobbled the S58. We know the motor can do so much more, this is a puzzling decision.

I normally assume torque capping is to protect the transmission, but this feels like something else.

Maybe at the end of the day, BMW is REAALLY worried about cannibalizing the G8x cars. If so, that's actually good news, because that means a simple tune is all we need.

[Ravenseal]

Originally Posted by NotSharocks

It's always going to be faster because BMW made it that way.

Toyota had literally no influence on this thing, it's entirely a BMW.

Hence why I bought one and not a gross G87, sounds bad, looks bad, now goes bad lol

Hey, at least I can fit a checked bag in the trunk. Bon voyage, suckers.

[NotSharocks]

Originally Posted by Ravenseal

Hey, at least I can fit a checked bag in the trunk. Bon voyage, suckers.

Man I've got an E39 M5 for that lol

You can find manual Supras, the issue is that you will have to pay.

That's the terrible part.

I'm sure the Comp or CS version will allow the G87 to really wake up.

We're stuck with this thing for the next 5 years haha

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by NotSharocks

I'm sure the Comp or CS version will allow the G87 to really wake up.

Wake up compared to WHAT? I continue to be so confused by this attitude, the G87 is a beast! These are great track numbers for a car that is also a great daily driver, at a sub $70K price point.

It's like people want every single car on earth to be a GT3. Not going to happen.

I must emphasize that this car's competitors are cars like the Audi RS3, which it demolishes. Or the AMG whatever-it-is-who-cares-lol, which it demolishes. it's not competing with Emiras, that's not the intent.

[JustinHEMI]

Originally Posted by Squidget

Wake up compared to WHAT? I continue to be so confused by this attitude, the G87 is a beast! These are great track numbers for a car that is also a great daily driver, at a sub $70K price point.

It's like people want every single car on earth to be a GT3. Not going to happen.

I must emphasize that this car's competitors are cars like the Audi RS3, which it demolishes. Or the AMG whatever-it-is-who-cares-lol, which it demolishes. it's not competing with Emiras, that's not the intent.

Nah bruh. It's a massive failure.


Meanwhile Jackie Ding is driving the piss out of it proving the ass talkers wrong.

[440i6MT]

Originally Posted by NotSharocks

Man I've got an E39 M5 for that lol

You can find manual Supras, the issue is that you will have to pay.

That's the terrible part.

I'm sure the Comp or CS version will allow the G87 to really wake up.

We're stuck with this thing for the next 5 years haha

I'm on the fence about jumping in e39 M5. I have one in my sights with Good mileage, clocking in at 62k. What do you suggest?

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by ronin13013

Dont forget too rid of the cement shoes!!!

He already swapped in Titan 7s.

[ronin13013]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/auto...8e05d51b7&ei=6

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by ronin13013

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/auto...8e05d51b7&ei=6

It says it was just published, but I swear I've read this before?

[Ravenseal]

Originally Posted by Squidget

It says it was just published, but I swear I've read this before?

It's reposted by Road and Track on MSN.

[zero21]

Originally Posted by NotSharocks

Man I've got an E39 M5 for that lol

You can find manual Supras, the issue is that you will have to pay.

That's the terrible part.

I'm sure the Comp or CS version will allow the G87 to really wake up.

We're stuck with this thing for the next 5 years haha

I wouldn't jump into my E39 after the latest announcement - the airbag may kill you with metal to the face.

[ourlee]

Originally Posted by yousefnjr

Supra:


G87:


F87:

I’d hit that

[zero21]

Originally Posted by NotSharocks

It's always going to be faster because BMW made it that way.

Toyota had literally no influence on this thing, it's entirely a BMW.

Hence why I bought one and not a gross G87, sounds bad, looks bad, now goes bad lol

It was two tenths faster on a chassis track, with the M2 in the slowest form.

On a power track it's a loser from the get-go. In any other form it's a loser from the get-go. Plus I can roll the window down and not want to kill myself

[ourlee]

If I’m out and about in a m2 and some guy tells me his Supra is faster I’ll say cool. Cause I’m ZFG

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by zero21

Plus I can roll the window down and not want to kill myself

I ded. lol. Yep, the buffeting is HELLACIOUS.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by zero21

So generic that it looks like tons of other cars

I don’t know about that

With an exception of the rearend

Bland is probably a better discrimination for the front-end itself without the carbon and add ons