[fanofbmwe46]

New Carrera T model was just announced. 3200 lbs or so, manual, sport chrono, PASM, and sport exhaust standard… 380hp.

Which do you think is ultimately faster around a track and or more fun to drive? Is the 911 worth $55K more in terms of driving experience and long term residual?

[Karmic Man]

Originally Posted by fanofbmwe46

New Carrera T model was just announced. 3200 lbs or so, manual, sport chrono, PASM, and sport exhaust standard… 380hp.

Which do you think is ultimately faster around a track and or more fun to drive? Is the 911 worth $55K more in terms of driving experience and long term residual?

With that much of a price delta. I personally would choose Supra over the T if track and fun is what I am after. You can't really mod the T much as aftermarket selection is tiny and $$$. Stock wise, the performance delta between the two is minimal given similar power weight ratio and close to midship (Supra front midship, T rear midship) layout. It all comes down to driver and tyres and type of track.

For me the T is for someone who either can't stretch their budget to a GT3 or wants a less hardcore 911 but still want to DIY gearchanges with a clutch.

The M2 is a different animal than the other 2.

[fanofbmwe46]

Originally Posted by Karmic Man

With that much of a price delta. I personally would choose Supra over the T if track and fun is what I am after. You can't really mod the T much as aftermarket selection is tiny and $$$. Stock wise, the performance delta between the two is minimal given similar power weight ratio and close to midship (Supra front midship, T rear midship) layout. It all comes down to driver and tyres and type of track.

For me the T is for someone who either can't stretch their budget to a GT3 or wants a less hardcore 911 but still want to DIY gearchanges with a clutch.

The M2 is a different animal than the other 2.

Yea good points overall.

I am likely trrading my 2022 Base cayman for an M2 but the things I'm worried I'll miss are the impeccable Porsche gearbox, cockpit analog feel, and Porsche design beauty. First choice would be to jump up to a Carrera T but it's almost $55K more the price of my base Cayman… I wonder if same driver, same tires, track, which car would be faster. If it's even or M2 beats it that's incredible performance value.

[Schn3ll]

I have a unique perspective as a former Carrera T owner who is in the market for an M2.

Faster around track - might be a wash. Driving experience is going to be better and more special in the 911 no doubt, but is it twice as good? Not sure, I doubt it.

Don't buy cars based on long term residuals because that means either you probably are buying more car than you are comfortable spending (using residual value to justify the cost) or you won't drive it or enjoy it because you are worried about the wrong thing (mileage + condition).

Anecdotally, I sold my 7MT Carrera T for $30k more than I paid. This was the perfect storm of buying it used at the bottom of the market and then selling at the top. Don't expect that to happen again. The new T will hold it's value well and maybe lose 15% over 3 years. This is probably similar to the M2, however the % loss is off of a larger number on the 911 so your losses will be greater than the M2.

Don't expect the Carrera T to shoot up in value like limited edition 911, the 991.2 Carrera T had less than 1,000 cars made for the US. And about 65% were manual. So very limited. And even in today's insane market, knowing the rarity, they are selling for around sticker price. I got rid of mine because it had the desirable option of the carbon buckets, they were just way too uncomfortable for me.

That being said, as a former T owner (current Taycan owner), I have an order in the order bank for an M2, but I did just reach out to my Porsche dealer and ask how long the list is for the new T. I've had M cars and they are great, but there's just something about a 911. So I'm not sure what I'll end up with, but in either case I buy my cars 100% cash so I really don't worry about depreciation hit and just enjoy them.

[fanofbmwe46]

Originally Posted by Schn3ll

I have a unique perspective as a former Carrera T owner who is in the market for an M2.

Faster around track - might be a wash. Driving experience is going to be better and more special in the 911 no doubt, but is it twice as good? Not sure, I doubt it.

Don't buy cars based on long term residuals because that means either you probably are buying more car than you are comfortable spending (using residual value to justify the cost) or you won't drive it or enjoy it because you are worried about the wrong thing (mileage + condition).

Anecdotally, I sold my 7MT Carrera T for $30k more than I paid. This was the perfect storm of buying it used at the bottom of the market and then selling at the top. Don't expect that to happen again. The new T will hold it's value well and maybe lose 15% over 3 years. This is probably similar to the M2, however the % loss is off of a larger number on the 911 so your losses will be greater than the M2.

Don't expect the Carrera T to shoot up in value like limited edition 911, the 991.2 Carrera T had less than 1,000 cars made for the US. And about 65% were manual. So very limited. And even in today's insane market, knowing the rarity, they are selling for around sticker price. I got rid of mine because it had the desirable option of the carbon buckets, they were just way too uncomfortable for me.

That being said, as a former T owner (current Taycan owner), I have an order in the order bank for an M2, but I did just reach out to my Porsche dealer and ask how long the list is for the new T. I've had M cars and they are great, but there's just something about a 911. So I'm not sure what I'll end up with, but in either case I buy my cars 100% cash so I really don't worry about depreciation hit and just enjoy them.

Great response. I bought my base cayman in cash as well so swapping into the M2 would be only a few grand out of pocket and I have to imagine a massive upgrade in performance. Biggest thing the cayman lacks is just brute force acceleration and back seats for my kids. The Carrera T would be absolutely perfect for me but I'd have to come up with another $55K in cash which might be unrealistic for now. If it was only $30K more I'd def go for it.

[Schn3ll]

Originally Posted by fanofbmwe46

Great response. I bought my base cayman in cash as well so swapping into the M2 would be only a few grand out of pocket and I have to imagine a massive upgrade in performance. Biggest thing the cayman lacks is just brute force acceleration and back seats for my kids. The Carrera T would be absolutely perfect for me but I'd have to come up with another $55K in cash which might be unrealistic for now. If it was only $30K more I'd def go for it.

I hear you, I may do the T - my wife has the Porsche bug now too (she drives the '18 Panamera e-hybrid), and she thinks I'm nuts for even thinking of going to a BMW... hah. I guess as I've gotten old (still not yet 40) I've become a cheapskate!

I will say the manual in the 911 will have a better feel, shifter and clutch, and the steering will be leagues better in the 911. Just more feel on the 911 all around, and the engine while 380hp doesn't sound like a lot, as you know, mid-engine Porsche horsepower hits differently and feels like at least 50 more than stated. The M2 should be a brute though with more torquey feel, but the 911 base 3.0L has very little if any turbo lag and feels naturally aspirated, sounds great with the sport exhaust (standard on the T) as well. Tough call, and I think I'm convincing myself to get another T in this thread...

[T_U_D]

911s are amazing vehicles and truthfully I do not feel that a entry level M car can rightfully be compared to a 992, with an exception to a base C2 that is only offered with a PDK. Let us also factor in the significant weight penalty for the G87 verus the 992 Carrera Carrera T. Then there is the elephant in the room, the $56,800 price difference between the two. Base to Base. It is a huge jump financially, especially considering that most individuals finance versus pay in cash.

[M2PDX]

Originally Posted by fanofbmwe46

Which do you think is ultimately faster around a track and or more fun to drive? Is the 911 worth $55K more in terms of driving experience and long term residual?

By the time Porsche dealers add their $10k - $30k ADM, you'll be able to buy TWO M2s for the price of one T.

This is yet another REALLY ridiculous comparison from the Porsche crowd on this BMW site.

Move on folks...

[fanofbmwe46]

Originally Posted by M2PDX

By the time Porsche dealers add their $10k - $30k ADM, you'll be able to buy TWO M2s for the price of one T.

This is yet another REALLY ridiculous comparison from the Porsche crowd on this BMW site.

Move on folks...

You can get them without ADMs. I've owned 8 BMWs and 1 Porsche. Seems logical to spend some time discussing comparisons.

[donm527]

What about a Cayman GTS with the 4.0L engine and using the Turbo S frame? I would think the GTS would be a better matchup to the M2 and honestly be the better performer?

Originally Posted by fanofbmwe46

Great response. I bought my base cayman in cash as well so swapping into the M2 would be only a few grand out of pocket and I have to imagine a massive upgrade in performance. Biggest thing the cayman lacks is just brute force acceleration and back seats for my kids. The Carrera T would be absolutely perfect for me but I'd have to come up with another $55K in cash which might be unrealistic for now. If it was only $30K more I'd def go for it.

[fanofbmwe46]

Originally Posted by donm527

What about a Cayman GTS with the 4.0L engine and using the Turbo S frame? I would think the GTS would be a better matchup to the M2 and honestly be the better performer?

No rear seats which limits ability to take kids to car shows…. The Carrera T can come with or without back seats for no change in price.

[Brainofjjj]

Interesting thread and not one i expected even though I'm cross shopping. I own a .1 GT3 RS and have ordered an M2 and am looking at the T.
My RS is amazing of course but my kids love to ride with me and can't, no back seats and all. I previously have looked into getting a GTS but the order line is pretty long at my dealer but the T list as of yesterday morning isn't so i added myself to it. I love the new M2's look but the weight bothers me a lot, i haven't owned a BMW since my E90 M3 not counting race cars. I hate that they have gotten so porky but on the street it doesn't matter and i have to keep that in the front of my head.
I like the new looks and ordered a Red one, waiting to hear about the CF seats, i really want them but they weren't in the system when the dealer looked.

I don't quite know if the T makes sense to me over just getting an S. I need to spend more time configuring and see where my options and need fall out.

Or i just keep the RS and pass on all of these newer cars but i love turbo cars on the street.

[donm527]

Originally Posted by fanofbmwe46

No rear seats which limits ability to take kids to car shows…. The Carrera T can come with or without back seats for no change in price.

Ah, I did think of the rear seats after I posted but never thought the 911 seats as usable anyways but guess they are to a little degree lol.

[ElHeffe]

The G80/G82 have a section for it vs other cars. It would be nice to have a section for the M2 as well. The M2 is really lacking in forums vs the M3/M4.

https://g80.bimmerpost.com/forums/fo...play.php?f=868

[GrannyShiftG80]

Don't have the extra 70k for a p car right now

[T_U_D]

The 992 Carrera T specs from Porsche.

[Brainofjjj]

Also, don't sleep on these base Carrera motors, they can make some serious power just with a tune.

[T_U_D]

Originally Posted by Brainofjjj

Also, don't sleep on these base Carrera motors, they can make some serious power just with a tune.

Likewise for an S58.

[M2PDX]

Originally Posted by fanofbmwe46

You can get them without ADMs. I've owned 8 BMWs and 1 Porsche. Seems logical to spend some time discussing comparisons.

Dude, the comparison MIGHT be a base 4 cylinder Caymen. Because that's at least close to the same price.

The comparison is NOT a $120k P car, which is the same price as a FULLY loaded G8X or phenomenal CTV-5 Blackwing.

What does that say??? That the G87 with a manual, fully loaded, at $70k USD, is an AMAZING value, and really in a class of its own

[CodeSlinger]

Originally Posted by Hegge3

Any 911 is better than the crappy 2023 M2. Less weight is always more fun in a sports car.

"Crappy" M2 , It's going to be an amazing drivers car. Obviously a 911 will be a whole different ballgame but there's no need to be a jackass just because your CS isn't the most powerful m2 anymore.

[Schn3ll]

The one glaring omission to me on the new T is the lack of Bose stereo option. It's either base stereo (garbage) or Burmester ($5,500). I would love a PTS car in Fjord Green, maybe next year if they figure out the Bose...


I'll be selling my Taycan soon so my current options for the next manual car are as follows:
- M2 plus $40k in my pocket (M3 was an option but list is too long)
- Carrera T minus $30k from my pocket
- CT4 Blackwing plus $40k in my pocket
- CT5 Blackwing maybe even

- $20k beater car and get on the list for a manual 992 GT3 (or find a 991.2 GT3 manual) - my buddy has a 992 PDK GT3 and it's insane, not a daily driver

[T_U_D]

Originally Posted by Schn3ll

The one glaring omission to me on the new T is the lack of Bose stereo option. It's either base stereo (garbage) or Burmester ($5,500). I would love a PTS car in Fjord Green, maybe next year if they figure out the Bose...


I'll be selling my Taycan soon so my current options for the next manual car are as follows:
- M2 plus $40k in my pocket (M3 was an option but list is too long)
- Carrera T minus $30k from my pocket
- CT4 Blackwing plus $40k in my pocket
- CT5 Blackwing maybe even

- $20k beater car and get on the list for a manual 992 GT3 (or find a 991.2 GT3 manual) - my buddy has a 992 PDK GT3 and it's insane, not a daily driver

I saw that as well pertaining to the Bose system not currently being available on the T. That is certainly a negative.

If you were to follow through with your G87 build I definitely think you will be able to flip it for $20-25k+ so long as you keep the miles under 1000. Of course there is a caveat to that, the US economy could be fully in the toilet by launch. It is anyone’s guess.