[ESB]

Originally Posted by M2CS

Tires should also be considered. The new PS4S tires on the G87 have more grip than the PSS that were standard equipment on the F87. My M2CS came with PSS and it would slide around fairly easily, but when I put the Cup2 (star spec) tires on it was far more buttoned down and needs to be coerced more to slide unless the tires and/or road is cold.

Absolutely! I commented earlier about how on the F87 forums there's discussion of what tires to get once its time to replace them. Most people get PS4Ss and some get larger sizes etc but I remember reading several opinions of people that opted to just get another set of OE PSSs due to wanting to keep the original sliding characteristics of the car.

[zero21]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

Hmmm. Yeah I was comparing my comp X drive HP. Base m3 manual and m2 manual are about the same weight (within 30 lbs?) unless you opt for carbon pack. So if it’s not a DD the other parameters don’t matter. Save the cash and get a fun m2…. Makes sense. But personally after owning and contrasting the Z4 and G80cx, I would opt for the lower weight and don’t mind a HP loss - between the M2 and Supra, I would opt for the Supra but part of that is the appearance/looks, and I also don’t like iD8 screens and UI. Or if it was a DD I’d go for the M3 base instead because again not much of a weight penalty plus more practicality.

Yeah that's a major difference with the Comp X. On Sat after collection my car will be going on scales so we'll see then

A lot of us targeted the car as a weekend-er with a couple seats for kiddos if necessary. In this use case, it's honestly in a class of 1. Can't really compare Supra and Z4 in terms of combination of usability and performance.

I believe the M2 is a niche machine and you've got to be in that to see the benefit - maybe more so than say an M4 or M3.

[DarkstarZero]

Originally Posted by ESB

Haha yeah I haven't watched that video but even with TH I'd have framed it as

"the car has more grip and is faster and more stable and will perform better because of it. (PERIOD. FULL STOP). But, for those that associate M2s with playfullness RWD shenanigans, this increased grip takes some of that away"

Like, yeah I agree its weird to lead with "more grip is bad" since it's objectively better. But at the same time, I think it is fair play to call out that it departs a bit from what the older M2s were known for. For most people, it probably doesn't matter. But for other people it might.

I would agree with this and also add that too much grip can be bad on the track as, ideally, you want to be able to rotate the car on demand where it makes sense. If the car prevents that, then it's objectively bad to have that much grip.

However, we don't know that because there's no track reviews yet. So this is all conjecture at this point.

[TheMaxXHD]

Crazy this thread. It’s like spectating a call of duty free for all deathmatch. Let me throw my hat into this, maybe I can unite the haters over the hatred of this: M340i > M2

[GregW / Oregon]

Autoweek review - nothing special:

https://www.autoweek.com/news/sports...-drive-review/

[zero21]

Originally Posted by ESB

I know what you're referencing but I commented earlier from my phone on how I was surprised to hear that because last week BMWBLOG posted another video where BMW directors were saying something I interpreted to be totally different:

In this video:

In the section about "how much stiffer is the chassis" (~7:25) they mention how the design contributes to the "playfullness of the car"

Then in the section around M2 vs M4 they reference "fun" as being a differentiator of M2 vs M4:

"characters of the cars are different ... different expectations ... does the customer want a car in a segment where the fun aspect is one of the main things and where RWD is really the focus ... quite high mix of AWD in M3/M4 and we know that customers in M2 segment are on purpose going for the fun of RWD"

I don't know about you, but I interpret their references to playfullness, fun, and RWD as being about letting the rear step out and the sort of behavior that people associated with the older M2s ... "its a hoot" etc.

As others have noted, increasing grip makes the car objectively better and it will produce better lap times. But, it does take away from some of what older-gen M2s were known for. So what is BMW really going for here? Increased track performance or "RWD fun" ? I really can't tell.

In the last year there have been a lot of questions around whether the M2 would have xDrive and there were tons of comments on how xDrive wouldn't fit the ethos of the car, and BMW's comments in the above video currently reinforce that positioning (M2 is about "RWD playfullness and fun"). xDrive vs RWD to me is another angle of the same debate about fun vs grip. For everyone saying BMW should never allow the M2 to have xDrive, are you happy or unhappy with the assertions that BMW has increased grip and reduced 'playfullness' with this gen of M2 with the goal of increasing performance/lap times?



FWIW I prefer reviews on roads. I don't really track my car and I don't think I fall into the minority group. I know it's sort of a sin. I'll do an HPDE 'soon' but I think I'll always go on canyon type drives more than tracks. Famous last words I guess.

So basically it boils down to: if they had done a track test and had the opportunity to drift the car properly and beat the hell out of it, it would have gotten better reviews?

Meh, everyone should have accounted for that and adjusted expectations. In hindsight after reading Thomas' comments I can see how both they, and us, could have communicated better, but something is still off here given what everyone else is saying.

Unfortunately, I still find the video to be lacking in content and execution. It looked like they just wanted to go home before even showing up...

When you look at the pictures folks took over the trip, their faces begin to tell that story. They seemed to be bored in the presentation, maybe irritated they didn't get hard info, had limited time, no track time, and then wanted the car to be a newer-older M2 and it wasn't.

Boom - bad/indifferent review.

Now I feel better

[zero21]

Originally Posted by DarkstarZero

I would agree with this and also add that too much grip can be bad on the track as, ideally, you want to be able to rotate the car on demand where it makes sense. If the car prevents that, then it's objectively bad to have that much grip.

However, we don't know that because there's no track reviews yet. So this is all conjecture at this point.

Other than Joe, most reviewers commented on the strength of the front end. Even TheSmokingTire - which I was a bit surprised at since they are hard cats to please.

[zero21]

Originally Posted by ESB

Haha yeah I haven't watched that video but even with TH I'd have framed it as

"the car has more grip and is faster and more stable and will perform better because of it. (PERIOD. FULL STOP). But, for those that associate M2s with playfullness RWD shenanigans, this increased grip takes some of that away"

Like, yeah I agree its weird to lead with "more grip is bad" since it's objectively better. But at the same time, I think it is fair play to call out that it departs a bit from what the older M2s were known for. For most people, it probably doesn't matter. But for other people it might.

Nothing some basic mods even from BMW's parts bin can't "fix" if you want to.

[Chicane_]

Originally Posted by 02M3ForMe

Seems like the automatic is the one to have. Every reviewer gave it high marks.

I may switch my custom allocation build to the ZF8. Will drive both before making that decision, though.

I just switched my order to the ZF8.

[moodyhank82]

Originally Posted by Throttle House Thomas

A more capable car is a pro yes. HOWEVER, the thing that attracted me to the M2 in the first place is that it felt like a skunkworks car. Where they stuffed some fat ass suspension components into a 2 series and gave it a ton of power. It was a handful. If I wanted a better M2... i'd buy an M4.

Hi Thomas, I am a subscriber of your channel and I enjoy your reviews so thanks for chiming in the discussion here.

My angle with the M2 and why I have been on a waitlist for one for a long time is that I was hoping it would be 99% of the car that the G82 is at 80% of the cost with more pleasing proportions. So if someone wanted a cheaper M4 (rather than a better F87), do you think the G87 then makes sense?

Also while I understand the 8AT improves all the measurable metrics over the manual, would you still pick the 6MT for better engagement if G87 were to be your daily driver?

[KindaSortaTerrible]

So no surprises from the reviews I’ve seen. People like the car a lot with main complaints being the lack of feedback through the steering wheel and the exterior styling which is divisive at best.

[T_U_D]

Originally Posted by 02M3ForMe

Looks like we’re probably getting the cheaper black top key. Watching …

It has been previously discussed in the key thread. I posted the following photos last Saturday.

[FryCookOnVenus]

Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon

Autoweek review - nothing special:

https://www.autoweek.com/news/sports...-drive-review/

Did you even read the article you linked to?

They called the car "pretty much fantastic."

They said, "your only problem will be getting someone to pry it from your hot, sweaty hands when your track time is over."

They conclude by saying "it wins its class."

How do you read this article and summarize their take as "nothing special?"

[M2PDX]

Originally Posted by T_U_D

For those that might be unaware Steve Dinan sold Dinan in 2015 when he went to work for Chip Ganassi Racing.

Steve Dinan Leaves His Company Behind and Moves to Ganassi Racing: https://www.autoevolution.com/news/s...ing-92241.html

Edit, the above is in regards to the following.

Perfectly aware of that T.U.D.

But Dinan lives, and the company is located in Alabama I believe. I've continued to buy from them. Good service and products.

Steve now has CarBahn, in the SF area.

[CodeSlinger]

Originally Posted by FryCookOnVenus

Did you even read the article you linked to?

They called the car "pretty much fantastic."

They said, "your only problem will be getting someone to pry it from your hot, sweaty hands when your track time is over."

They conclude by saying "it wins its class."

How do you read this article and summarize their take as "nothing special?"

Thought the same thing, I'm assuming he meant the journalistic quality was nothing special.

[T_U_D]

Originally Posted by M_Power Rob

Why are people reviewing making comments like the car is for drifting or dirt track style driving (thats how they make it sound)?

Right! When did having “to much grip” become a bad thing in a street purpose sports coupe?

85%+ that purchase a G87 will never be able to drive them at their full potential. That is a fact!

Originally Posted by M2PDX

Perfectly aware of that T.U.D.

But Dinan lives, and the company is located in Alabama I believe. I've continued to buy from them. Good service and products.

Steve now has CarBahn, in the SF area.

Yes, Dinan is in Alabama. They are housed in building that the conglomerate also owns several other tuning companies.

Yes, I have mentioned CarBahn several times as well as posted the link.

Several of our sister stores were formerly Dinan dealers when Steve still owned the company.

[RenatoNYC]

Not sure if this has been said, but seeing these videos of the same cars, on the same stretch of road, same editing style using the same camera setup feels so “press release” that it bothered me! 😆 including the sound, which usually varies among these YouTubers, is exactly the same.

Feels like BMW flew everyone in, made a line and bangged out the videos on the spot. After a few I found myself tuning out.

That being said. BMW is finding some good angles. Car looks hot in a squarish type of way. Besides the front fascia and Tesla-looking dash I’m digging it, but sticking with OG LCI for now.

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by Throttle House Thomas

I had dinner with the chief chassis engineer twice and picked his brain as much as I could. However other outlets (because of differing levels of production value) had more time during the day to pick their brains. We had to get out there and film. HOWEVER, regardless of what any engineer says, We trust what we feel when driving a car. So YES, I am saying that there is no grunt south of 3.5k in the manual. Watch our video at this time stamp, this is second gear. https://youtu.be/5uT4s_NWBN0?t=248

You can hear the foot click down full on the throttle. Pretty much nothing happens for several seconds. Yes I am aware that the engine is outside of the boost threshold, but with that gearset, the car felt neutered at low revs in any gear pretty much, whereas other cars, (competitors or old M2s), do not. What this means in reality, is that on a tight twisty road, you actually have to downshift to first gear FREQUENTLY, if you want to really play around with the car. It didn't feel right.

Dear Throttle House Thomas and @JamesThrottle

At last, welcome to our zany corner of the Universe where BimmerPost contribution is encouraged (but be sure to wear protective gear, for not all of us are always as calm as we would like to be)

Thank you for your contribution to motoring entertainment

Don't be a stranger in future 🙏

[10"]

Originally Posted by Throttle House Thomas

What this means in reality, is that on a tight twisty road, you actually have to downshift to first gear FREQUENTLY, if you want to really play around with the car. It didn't feel right.

You mean 2nd gear? I hope you don’t downshift to 1st gear in the twisties! 😂☠️

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by 10"

You mean 2nd gear? I hope you don’t downshift to 1st gear in the twisties! ��☠️

1st gear is quite appropriate for hairpin bends, or any bend below 40km/h / 25mph, for that matter.

[Ravenseal]

Originally Posted by Throttle House Thomas

What this means in reality, is that on a tight twisty road, you actually have to downshift to first gear FREQUENTLY, if you want to really play around with the car. It didn't feel right.

Uh...that's frightening. Are you trying to scare me from keeping the manuals alive?

[M2PDX]

Originally Posted by Throttle House Thomas

Hey Everyone, Thomas from Throttle House here. Our review of the M2 was very thoroughly thought out, and we stand by the things we said. Drop your questions here and I'll try to answer them.

To address one thing re: lugging the engine in 4th. We also did the same in second gear the moment before and you can see how unresponsive the powertrain is at low revs. The 4th gear pull was just a way of REALLY showing it off. For reference my OG M2 pulls hard almost immediately at lower revs. Off boost turbocharged motors feel really dull. And the amount of off-boost in this engine is much larger than normal. But feel free to respond and I'll partake in discussion!
This car is very important to me, and I'm not pleased with a few of the choices BMW has made in the development of the new one. At this point, I probably wont chat about styling too much, because as you saw... I kind of said it all already...

Thomas, first of all, THANKS for joining us here. I appreciated your review (and like your channel), even though I was a bit disappointed.

As an OG F87 owner, the G87 is really a no brainer. 6MT, a fantastic engine, adaptive dampers, ability to turn off rev matching, M1/2 buttons.

I will say, on the track or on twisty mountain roads, I am almost always in 2nd or 3rd, and if I'm in 4th, downshifting to 3rd or 2nd is just part of the thrill of actually "driving" the car myself. So I -- and a lot of us here -- were baffled by that particular comment. It's more "engaging " to shift yourself, and is certainly 2nd nature to long time manual owners. That's part of why we like 6MTs. It forces us to work!

On the "fun" factor, BMW builds cars for the masses. Small upgrades can make a difference. Many of us do that. Lighter wheels, SSK, lithium battery paired with CF roof and seats should lighten up (wake up) the car quite a bit, don't you think? It certainly did so with my F87. Many of us do those things on all of our Bimmers.

And I wish you'd mentioned the axle hop issue, which is a huge problem with the F87, because it upsets the rear end and triggers traction control at absolutely the worst time ... around corners at speed when you hit the smallest bump. Cutting power is an awful response by the electronic nannies. That alone is a reason to get a G87.

We'll see how I like it when mine finally arrives. And you're welcome to come spend a few days driving it on Oregon's mountain roads back to back with my OG F87 or e36 M3 (in Technoviolet!) if you'd like.