[Humdizzle]

just watched the engineering explained video

- says the hp bump isn't worth the weight increase
- is ok with the looks and doesn't hate it, but the last m2 looked better
- M2 used to be its own wild thing, now its just a different looking M4
- reiterates often that it is a 'very good car' but then says its 'not really an m2 anymore'.

to be fair though its pointless to compare the OG M2 to the G87, its more in line with the M2 comp... which was pretty much the same weight as the f82.

nothing has really changed here. its the same recipe. just that the g8x clar platform is heavier and larger.

[baron95]

G87 + Carbon roof + G82 wheels + G82 battery + $700 Racechip = M4 comp RWD weight and performance wise.

People just need to get over it.

All M cars are maturing. The M4 is very similar to M6/M8s, and the M2 is very similar to M4s. Nothing wrong with it.

But yes, there is now room for an M0.

[VIERsr]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

just watched the engineering explained video

- says the hp bump isn't worth the weight increase
- is ok with the looks and doesn't hate it, but the last m2 looked better
- M2 used to be its own wild thing, now its just a different looking M4
- reiterates often that it is a 'very good car' but then says its 'not really an m2 anymore'.

to be fair though its pointless to compare the OG M2 to the G87, its more in line with the M2 comp... which was pretty much the same weight as the f82.

nothing has really changed here. its the same recipe. just that the g8x clar platform is heavier and larger.

This.
The F87 S55 weighed exactly the same as the F82 because of the lack of lightweight components for cost saving and "hierarchy" reasons (aluminum trunk and hood, carbon roof, lithium battery).
With the G87/G82 it is the same story: they weigh the same for the same reasons as before, while the total weight has increased because of the heavier platform.
It is so easy to understand that I am still surprised that people are surprised: we have known about the weight of the G82 for two years, did anyone really expect the G87 to be 150 kg lighter? Why? And how?

[fcman]

People love to act like the M2 has some well-established formula. There’s been 1 generation… there is no formula other than “2 series touched by the M division.” The G87 is the M2 BMW wanted to make. The F87 is dead.

[Hulk Smash]

Originally Posted by fcman

People love to act like the M2 has some well-established formula. There’s been 1 generation… there is no formula other than “2 series touched by the M division.” The G87 is the M2 BMW wanted to make. The F87 is dead.

It's the M2 the bean counters at BMW wanted, it may not be what the engineers preferred.

[VIERsr]

Originally Posted by M2CS

It's the M2 the bean counters at BMW wanted, it may not be what the engineers preferred.

This can be applied to all cars for sale (with the exception of very small manufacturers), the marketing and bean counters now count much more than the engineers.
Porsche and Lamborghini were close to bankruptcy at the end of the last century, if we still have Lambos and Porsches it is thanks to people who have been able to increase sales, not to great engineers, Cayenne diesel or Lamborghini with Audi components did not make the engineers happy, but allowed us to have the GT3 and the Aventador SVJ today.
Engineers don't sit at the table with shareholders, and don't forget that sales revenue also pays the salaries of engineers.

[Hulk Smash]

Originally Posted by VIERsr

This can be applied to all cars for sale (with the exception of very small manufacturers), the marketing and bean counters now count much more than the engineers.
Porsche and Lamborghini were close to bankruptcy at the end of the last century, if we still have Lambo and Porsche it is thanks to people who have been able to increase sales, not to great engineers, Cayenne diesel or Lamborghini with Audi components did not make the engineers happy, but allowed us to have the GT3 and the Aventador SVJ today.
Engineers don't sit at the table with shareholders, and don't forget that sales revenue also pays the salaries of engineers.

Solid point, however it was the passion for motorsports and the expertise of the engineers that created the demand for M cars. These days it's passion for maximum sales.

[fcman]

Originally Posted by M2CS

These days it's passion for maximum sales.

Ok, so the G87 is the car that the people want? Even better imo

[ronin13013]

Better steering than a Porche 718 GTS?!?

[MLBMW]

Originally Posted by Squidget

* With the exception of Digital Key on MT, perhaps. What a mess.

Please explain what the Digital Key on manual transmission mess is; thanks.

[VIERsr]

Originally Posted by ronin13013

Better steering than a Porche 718 GTS?!?

How can someone who says with amazement that the M2 is more fun than his Tesla be taken seriously?

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by MLBMW

Please explain what the Digital Key on manual transmission mess is; thanks.

When you order the 6NX Wireless Device Charging with the auto trans cars you get the ability for a digital key on your phone. There was no mention that when you get the same on the manual trans car it lacks that ability. The charging "tray" is mounted vertically in the armrest console and lacks NFC, plus is awkward to use and takes up space there.

[baron95]

Originally Posted by ronin13013

Better steering than a Porche 718 GTS?!?

If I hear one more time that the Cayman GTS 4.0 and the G87 have the same/similar starting price, I will vomit.

In what world is this true? The GTS 4.0 is 50% more expensive!

And I have driven both and there is no planet where the G87 has better steering than the GTS. Those skinny front tires and mid-engine weight distribution enable a really great steering feel.

So I stopped watching it right after the two non-sensical comments above.

My opinion: G87 is much cheaper, and a great value. Has very good steering. Not as bad/vague as some of the reviewers say, but not as good as the GTS either. It is very good for a front engine car with wide front tires, though.

[VIERsr]

Originally Posted by baron95

If I hear one more time that the Cayman GTS 4.0 and the G87 have the same/similar starting price, I will vomit.

In what world is this true? The GTS 4.0 is 50% more expensive!

And I have driven both and there is no planet where the G87 has better steering than the GTS. Those skinny front tires and mid-engine weight distribution enable a really great steering feel.

So I stopped watching it right after the two non-sensical comments above.

My opinion: G87 is much cheaper, and a great value. Has very good steering. Not as bad/vague as some of the reviewers say, but not as good as the GTS either. It is very good for a front engine car with wide front tires, though.

Good that you skipped the part where he select track mode and is convinced that the car is faster.

[Humdizzle]

Originally Posted by fcman

People love to act like the M2 has some well-established formula. There’s been 1 generation… there is no formula other than “2 series touched by the M division.” The G87 is the M2 BMW wanted to make. The F87 is dead.

its hard for people to realize every M generation is different. Just have to find the one that fits your needs/wants. If you ask most car reviewers or look at any of those M car group tests most of the time people put the E46 or E92 at the top.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by baron95

If I hear one more time that the Cayman GTS 4.0 and the G87 have the same/similar starting price, I will vomit.

Apparently the price is pretty close in the UK, where the M2 is hella expensive. Or like, Singapore, I guess. In North America, you are right, it's not close.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

If you ask most car reviewers or look at any of those M car group tests most of the time people put the E46 or E92 at the top.

I think there is some selection bias due to the average age of car journalists. We've seen some young reviewers and they don't talk about the E46 at all, they compare the G87 to more modern cars. The new Supra, or the Z, etc. Nostalgia and "your first love" is a powerful force.

[MLBMW]

Originally Posted by Squidget

I think there is some selection bias due to the average age of car journalists. We've seen some young reviewers and they don't talk about the E46 at all, they compare the G87 to more modern cars. The new Supra, or the Z, etc. Nostalgia and "your first love" is a powerful force.

Exactly! Everything is relative. To really understand a reviewer's opinion, you have to understand the reviewer. The only review, or opinion, that really matters to you is your own.

[baron95]

Originally Posted by Squidget

Apparently the price is pretty close in the UK, where the M2 is hella expensive. Or like, Singapore, I guess. In North America, you are right, it's not close.

Is it though?

M2 UK Starting Price is: £64,890

Cayman GTS 4.0 UK Starting Price is: £73,300

That is approximately US$11,000 difference in price.

That is basically the difference between the M2 and the M3 the next class up in BMW's range.

[clydefrog]

Originally Posted by baron95

Is it though?

M2 UK Starting Price is: £64,890

Cayman GTS 4.0 UK Starting Price is: £73,300

That is approximately US$11,000 difference in price.

That is basically the difference between the M2 and the M3 the next class up in BMW's range.

£64.8k is $81.8k though, so ~$19k more expensive than in the US to start with, while the £73k is $92.4k which is much closer to the US price of $95k.

$19k is pretty significant although not Singapore levels of crazy, where a honda civic goes for like $120k US.

At least for me, the M2 is a harder sell at $82k base. Definitely can see why our European friends would just spend the extra dosh on the Porsche.

[aerobod]

Comparing EU and UK prices with North American prices has to also take into account the fact that the EU/UK prices include 20% VAT (sales tax) in the quoted prices, whereas North American prices require the relevant sales taxes to be added. The EU/UK prices typically have to be quoted as OTR (On The Road) prices, no additional amounts added.

[clydefrog]

Originally Posted by aerobod

Comparing EU and UK prices with North American prices has to also take into account the fact that the EU/UK prices include 20% VAT (sales tax) in the quoted prices, whereas North American prices require the relevant sales taxes to be added. The EU/UK prices typically have to be quoted as OTR (On The Road) prices, no additional amounts added.

Ah good to know, I knew about that in like the grocery store didn't connect the dots to cars too.

I love that about Europe the price you see is the price you pay!