[M2siast]

Originally Posted by VIERsr

This comparison is interesting, if I understood correctly the meaning is that for the price of the GT4 you can buy the M2 and the RS3. Correct?

Funny…

[clydefrog]

feels like in general opinion on the looks is turning around, i see way more people praising than hating lately.

Pretty standard review but they do address specifically brake noise, manual torque at low rpm, and other FAQ at ~12:00

[c1pher]

Originally Posted by VIERsr

So do I, I really like the customisation that Porsche offers (well, it's not exactly on offer )and would love to have more choice on the M2, but be aware that nothing is free with Porsches and you don't see many Cayman GTSs with basic specs, so the starting price is very theoretical and the real price gap with the M2 could eventually be very large.

I do too. As cars become more bloated, it allows you to spec what makes sense and get back to driving vs being an occupant in a vehicle. If you want the true essence of the car, it still comes with the core pieces you need. The rest is optional, people making fun of poverty specs are just jealous. With that said, Porsche makes it difficult to not add options though. They know what they’re doing.

[Sebis]

Originally Posted by clydefrog

feels like in general opinion on the looks is turning around, i see way more people praising than hating lately.

Pretty standard review but they do address specifically brake noise, manual torque at low rpm, and other FAQ at ~12:00

Their gripe regarding the lack of a classic tach in the center of the display is right on! Porsche seems to be the only mainstream brand that knows how to design the instrument cluster nowadays. One of the things I do miss from my Porsche Macan days is the instrument cluster with the center taken by the analog tach with digital gear display.

I understand that keeping the analog tach like Porsche did with 992 would increase costs, and would have been quite happy with a digital representation instead of the weird slanted bars.

Had a chance to participate in a BWM Autocross event yesterday and drove the i4 M50, 330e and Z4 M40i and was quite disappointed with the displays. First time in a modern BMW and without time to learn the infotainment system, had a hard time reading the controls.

I could never tell the engine speed, especially in the Z4 with the older gen iDrive, hoping the gen 8 in the M2 is better. The Z4 was the worst due to the colors employed and the display being exposed to direct sunlight.

[VIERsr]

Originally Posted by Sebis

Their gripe regarding the lack of a classic tach in the center of the display is right on! Porsche seems to be the only mainstream brand that knows how to design the instrument cluster nowadays. One of the things I do miss from my Porsche Macan days is the instrument cluster with the center taken by the analog tach with digital gear display.

I understand that keeping the analog tach like Porsche did with 992 would increase costs, and would have been quite happy with a digital representation instead of the weird slanted bars.

Had a chance to participate in a BWM Autocross event yesterday and drove the i4 M50, 330e and Z4 M40i and was quite disappointed with the displays. First time in a modern BMW and without time to learn the infotainment system, had a hard time reading the controls.

I could never tell the engine speed, especially in the Z4 with the older gen iDrive, hoping the gen 8 in the M2 is better. The Z4 was the worst due to the colors employed and the display being exposed to direct sunlight.

Actually on id8 it is even worse, the only way to get a clear view of the rpm is to look at the head up display in sport mode.

[clydefrog]

Originally Posted by VIERsr

Actually on id8 it is even worse, the only way to get a clear view of the rpm is to look at the head up display in sport mode.

what about the m mode tach with it right in the center. not my favorite way to display it but it should satisfy for bringing it center stage

[Sebis]

Originally Posted by clydefrog

what about the m mode tach with it right in the center. not my favorite way to display it but it should satisfy for bringing it center stage

Hmm, this looks promising. Need to see if can keep the M mode display on all the time.

[aerobod]

I thought I would miss a nice centrally placed round tachometer, but with a car that revs rapidly I find it is much more important to have well placed shift lights and the tachometer just becomes superfluous. The M2 shift “strip” is reasonable, perhaps could be a bit deeper and have the ability to program the point at transition to amber, red and flashing, but overall works OK.

My Caterham has a nice large round centrally placed tachometer I never look at, but the ACES LED fully programmable shift light system just above the top of the steering wheel rim just works perfectly.

[VIERsr]

Originally Posted by clydefrog

what about the m mode tach with it right in the center. not my favorite way to display it but it should satisfy for bringing it center stage

Slightly better, but I don't like the vertical bar, the HUD has the same layout but horizontal, much more intuitive to read.

[JustinHEMI]

Originally Posted by Sebis

Hmm, this looks promising. Need to see if can keep the M mode display on all the time.

You cannot, unless bimmercode figures something out. You cannot even link it to your M buttons.

This is one of my biggest gripes of the design, and one of the biggest misses from BMW.

Early reviewers were even confused by what the "M-mode" button did, not realizing that it affected only the displays and not the performance settings like the M buttons.

Very stupid design.

[M2siast]

Originally Posted by JustinHEMI

You cannot, unless bimmercode figures something out. You cannot even link it to your M buttons.

This is one of my biggest gripes of the design, and one of the biggest misses from BMW.

Early reviewers were even confused by what the "M-mode" button did, not realizing that it affected only the displays and not the performance settings like the M buttons.

Very stupid design.

It also deactivates lane keep assist.

I agree it shouldn’t be linked to a considered “safety” feature, and just be a dash setup that could be linked to M1/2 presets… ridiculous to have to click the button, select Sport, and hit the button again, every time you drive or every time you turn off cruise control or speed limiter.

[JustinHEMI]

Originally Posted by M2siast

It also deactivates lane keep assist.

I agree it shouldn’t be linked to a considered “safety” feature, and just be a dash setup that could be linked to M1/2 presets… ridiculous to have to click the button, select Sport, and hit the button again, every time you drive or every time you turn off cruise control or speed limiter.

It reminds me of my common gripe about tech, we seem to regress the more "advanced" it becomes. Why so many button presses in the 21st century?

I bitch about how many buttons it takes to make a starship go warp speed in star trek. Why can't they just speak the command to the ship. Or better yet, think it in the 24th century?

[Sebis]

Originally Posted by M2siast

It also deactivates lane keep assist.

I agree it shouldn’t be linked to a considered “safety” feature, and just be a dash setup that could be linked to M1/2 presets… ridiculous to have to click the button, select Sport, and hit the button again, every time you drive or every time you turn off cruise control or speed limiter.

Yeah, major FAIL from BMW. This reminds me of my GTI where I have to disable auto start/stop every time I turn on the damn engine.

I wish I could would write a PowerShell script to set all the stupid modes and settings, and run it every time the engine starts. Better yet link it to the key

[c1pher]

[M2C2020]

Originally Posted by nachob

Yes, you are correct. Let me clarify a few points.

1. They lost tons of old school "ultimate driving machine" generation fans. I grudgingly bought a Cayman and the 718 forum is full of ex-bmw guys that have left.

2. The majority of that increase is in trucks with a BMW badge not sports cars. Go drive to a BMW dealer and see if you can count 10 cars on the lot

3. The 1M and M2 were a hit, a brilliant success because they went back to lighter, smaller, simpler cars than the M3/M4 so they WERE selling, but the issue is that now they are making the M2, the same size and weight as the M4 and probably the same weight as the previous M5. The V10 2010 M5 was porker at 4000 lbs with a V10 and 4 seats. This is one 5,10 200 lbs dude away from that with two doors and 4 less cylinders.

So yes, they are losing fans for these types of cars, even if replacing with super fast trucks.

I know I'm super late to the party but this is the absolute most based comment on this entire thread and why I would consider getting a Cayman as my next car after I'm done with the M2C if they continue down this direction, I'm also not a middle aged dude I'm 30 so I appreciate the old school BMW I grew up with and right at the time I could afford one in life they made the G series which if that's cool with you fine but I can't get over the looks or weight of any G models personally. Only thing that resembles a BMW nowadays is the 3 series but still overweight, I had a M340 on order specc'd fully than order took too long cancelled bought this thing and haven't looked back since. It's not all about having the latest and greatest too many people get caught up in the rat race and feel like they need a brand new car every 2 years.

[m2ss]

Originally Posted by nachob

3. The 1M and M2 were a hit, a brilliant success because they went back to lighter, smaller, simpler cars than the M3/M4 so they WERE selling, but the issue is that now they are making the M2, the same size and weight as the M4 and probably the same weight as the previous M5. The V10 2010 M5 was porker at 4000 lbs with a V10 and 4 seats. This is one 5,10 200 lbs dude away from that with two doors and 4 less cylinders.

So yes, they are losing fans for these types of cars, even if replacing with super fast trucks.

My history...90 300ZX, 95RX7, 06Z4M, 1M, 18 M2, 718S (4pot), 991.1 base, 991.2 base, 991.2 TT, 22R8 Spyder and now 20 M2C.

You speak the truth...

[m2ss]

Originally Posted by clydefrog

feels like in general opinion on the looks is turning around, i see way more people praising than hating lately.

BMW is notorious for having their style "grow" over time.

BMW is notorious for having their weight "grow" over time.

BMW is notorious for having their dimensions "grow" over time.

The third one bothers me the most...

[baron95]

G87 is nearly identical in size, down to the mm, to the E46 M3.

It’s much more refined and capable. It handles much better, acceleration and braking are miles ahead.

Steering is slightly worse.

Price, adjusted fir inflation. Is a bargain.

That leaves weight as the only major dynamic drawback. You do get a lot for that weight, like potentially your life I. An accident, bigger tires and brakes, mor chassis rigidity, etc. I’m no willing to trade any of that off. And most bitching about weight would not trade it off either.

So, I ordered one, and will remo eight by G80/82 ft orgrdcwheels (-20 lbs), Antigravity Battery (-40 lbs), carbon roof (-48 lbs from standard moon roof), etc.

It will e a 370bs car that’s safe, fun, capable and practical (vs Cayman).

I see win all around.

[M2C2020]

Originally Posted by m2ss

My history...90 300ZX, 95RX7, 06Z4M, 1M, 18 M2, 718S (4pot), 991.1 base, 991.2 base, 991.2 TT, 22R8 Spyder and now 20 M2C.

You speak the truth...

We both have long beach blue 2020 F87's with the same rims lol you have good taste brother. and I'm not here to troll and get into arguments was just catching up on the thread and my personal preference is a low mileage used F87. All the best to the G87 guys hope you all have a blast and enjoy your cars when they arrive! Just wasn't for me I test drove a few before my decision to go "old school"

[m2ss]

Originally Posted by M2C2020

We both have long beach blue 2020 F87's with the same rims lol you have good taste brother. and I'm not here to troll and get into arguments was just catching up on the thread and my personal preference is a low mileage used F87. All the best to the G87 guys hope you all have a blast and enjoy your cars when they arrive! Just wasn't for me I test drove a few before my decision to go "old school"

I agree, everyone has different tastes and driving needs.

They're all great cars and we're lucky to have options.

[VIERsr]

I laugh when I read that the F87 is 'old school', 'purist', 'analogue' and so on.
The influence of the media and clichés puts terms into people's mouths that they have no idea about.
It's cyclically the same old nursery rhyme that the old owners say when a new M comes out, and again no exception. Just say that you don't like and move on, no?
I'm pretty sure the same will be said about the G87 when the next M2 comes out, whether electric, coal or plutonium powered, the previous one will be for the last 'pure' M for some strange reason.

[Rate-of-Twist]

Originally Posted by clydefrog

Quite the leap indeed. Great, it can hold airplane luggage and cups . What you get in practicality in the M2 you're giving up like 10% of the performance in a very specific way of driving with the GT4.

It still boggles my mind a bit that they are even in the same price realm in Europe though. Lucky bastards. I totally get it, I would take a GT4 too if they were comparable in price out here in the US but they just aren't.

I had no idea how similar in price the GTS and M2 are in Europe either. Watching in of the reviews, I kept saying out loud - the Porsche is $100k how is this a comparison?

If they were the same price in the US, I would have a real hard time not leaning in the direction of a GTS 4.0. But in reality, the “conservative” spec I build in a GTS is $102k - and that’s only adding shark blue and sport seat to the base spec.

On the flip side my spec for the M2 can include some extras like a carbon roof and still be $68k

When you look around there are a good number of sports cars in the $100k area that are amazing performers. What you cannot say is that there are a ton of interesting, solid performing cars that start in the $60k range anymore