[yash27]

I have a 2025 G87 on order and while I'm not an audiophile I'm used to having great speaker quality. A lot of people on this forum say the Harmon Kardons in the 2 series aren't that impressive. With that in mind I've been eyeing the bavsound system w/amp and the bimmertech alpha one system w/amp. Does anyone have these installed in their cars and do they actually sound much better than stock?

Also, I saw some people on other forums say just upgrading the stock amp makes a big difference in sound quality as well. Does anyone have any info on that?

Thanks.

[DutchBoysRacing]

I used bimmer code to enable the sound profile thats not enabled

https://g87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=2075119

[yash27]

Originally Posted by DutchBoysRacing

I used bimmer code to enable the sound profile thats not enabled

https://g87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=2075119

In your experience do you notice better sound quality when the sound profile is enabled?

[RemoWilliams84]

Originally Posted by yash27

In your experience do you notice better sound quality when the sound profile is enabled?

I've done it. If you use the manual EQ and set it up decently, I can't tell a difference between that and the sound profile.

[BroDoze]

Originally Posted by RemoWilliams84

I've done it. If you use the manual EQ and set it up decently, I can't tell a difference between that and the sound profile.

This makes sense to me - there shouldn't be any difference between one of those hidden profiles vs being able to EQ it properly yourself.

If there is... then the coding has somehow unlocked DSP or other processing...

[Gdubb]

I have full alpha one setup as well as BimmerCode bang and olufsen profiles. Both help but the alpha one was far and away the biggest upgrade. It’s not cheap but it’s 100% worth it

[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by yash27

In your experience do you notice better sound quality when the sound profile is enabled?

There is noticeable differences between the B&W sound profiles and the standard HK sound. I've manually adjusted the eq & prefer the "concert" profile.

[eleven11]

I don't currently own a G87, but lurk here (considering a purchase). I'm curious if the audio situation in these cars is similar to the F30s - upgrading the speakers generally yields minimal/no results (placebo), but replacing the amp (with DSP) is a substantial upgrade? For F30s, Audiotec Fischer is the common recommendation, which the other companies mentioned in this thread rebrand (and restrict).

[IMS M3]

I am itching to hear the Alpha One setup as I'm considering one for my G87 on order. I have a custom Audiofrog speaker / Helix V12 DSP amp on my E92 and it's great, but going with a simple plug and play would be much cheaper/easier.

Unless things have changed in the past couple of years when I completed all of my research, Bavsound and Bimmertech were using similar base amps but Bavsound locked theirs so you couldn't adjust any of their standard DSP tuning, while Bimmertech's did allow for adjustments. If that's still the case, I would be hard pressed to purchase a Bavsound amp as you'd lose the ability to tune beyond their base file...

eleven11 is correct - order of audio upgrades for BMWs is typically amp first, then speakers. Many have said adding the DSP/amp is enough for them. You could always start with the amp, see how you like it, then add the speakers later.

[MASHCT]

I can tell you for sure, without a doubt, the HK speakers are the weak link. I replaced my entire sound system, but I had to do it in sections as it was time consuming due to the sound deadening stuff I did, too.

I replaced just the fronts & under-seat subs, leaving the OEM amp/DSP in place. Subs are Morels direct replacement drop-ins & the fronts are CDT Audio ES "Gold" series (as are now the rears.)

First, the subs were louder (likely due to improved efficiency) and played WAY deeper & are more musical than the HKs.

Second, fading front to rear the difference was VERY noticeable. Far fuller, warmer mids & WAY WAY WAY smoother, cleaner & crisper highs. NIGHT AND DAY difference that anyone could hear. No golden ears required.

The HKs have a noticeable "honk" to them & shallow mids. The highs are pretty clean, but they're missing something & I think it's the highest of audible highs. They're also a little shrill.

Eventually I replaced the amp with an AudioControl amp/dsp. This is the final nail in the coffin for the HK system. First, it's far more powerful, enough so that the difference is also quite noticeable just on that point alone. You just can't get the HK system loud "enough" and as you increase volume, the sound quality drops noticeably.

The second disadvantage of the OEM amp/dsp is you cannot do any custom tuning beyond a limited EQ, fader & balance (there are tone controls but you shouldn't use those with the EQ.) Any aftermarket DSP will let you modify speaker distances, EQ (10 bands up to 30 bands), crossover frequency & slope. Some even let you switch between graphic EQ & parametric EQ (AudioControl has that feature.)

The biggest advantages of these aftermarket drop-ins vs other options is that they are truly plug and play & you will get improved speaker components/construction that lead to better sound quality. (Personally, I do not like aluminum tweeters.) All of these guys (Bimmertech, Bavsound, etc...) use Audiotec-Fischer amp/dsp (either their Helix branded or Match branded amp/dsps). ATF is VERY high quality & can be custom tuned with their software (you need their cable to do that).

I do not know the sound quality of these OEM replacement kits as I have never heard them - but folks rave about them, for sure. I am very familiar with CDT Audio & AudioControl which is why I stuck with them for my new M2. I have also used JL Audio amps & DSPs but I wanted more power & AudioControl amp is incredible.

[yash27]

Originally Posted by MASHCT

I can tell you for sure, without a doubt, the HK speakers are the weak link. I replaced my entire sound system, but I had to do it in sections as it was time consuming due to the sound deadening stuff I did, too.

I replaced just the fronts & under-seat subs, leaving the OEM amp/DSP in place. Subs are Morels direct replacement drop-ins & the fronts are CDT Audio ES "Gold" series (as are now the rears.)

First, the subs were louder (likely due to improved efficiency) and played WAY deeper & are more musical than the HKs.

Second, fading front to rear the difference was VERY noticeable. Far fuller, warmer mids & WAY WAY WAY smoother, cleaner & crisper highs. NIGHT AND DAY difference that anyone could hear. No golden ears required.

The HKs have a noticeable "honk" to them & shallow mids. The highs are pretty clean, but they're missing something & I think it's the highest of audible highs. They're also a little shrill.

Eventually I replaced the amp with an AudioControl amp/dsp. This is the final nail in the coffin for the HK system. First, it's far more powerful, enough so that the difference is also quite noticeable just on that point alone. You just can't get the HK system loud "enough" and as you increase volume, the sound quality drops noticeably.

The second disadvantage of the OEM amp/dsp is you cannot do any custom tuning beyond a limited EQ, fader & balance (there are tone controls but you shouldn't use those with the EQ.) Any aftermarket DSP will let you modify speaker distances, EQ (10 bands up to 30 bands), crossover frequency & slope. Some even let you switch between graphic EQ & parametric EQ (AudioControl has that feature.)

The biggest advantages of these aftermarket drop-ins vs other options is that they are truly plug and play & you will get improved speaker components/construction that lead to better sound quality. (Personally, I do not like aluminum tweeters.) All of these guys (Bimmertech, Bavsound, etc...) use Audiotec-Fischer amp/dsp (either their Helix branded or Match branded amp/dsps). ATF is VERY high quality & can be custom tuned with their software (you need their cable to do that).

I do not know the sound quality of these OEM replacement kits as I have never heard them - but folks rave about them, for sure. I am very familiar with CDT Audio & AudioControl which is why I stuck with them for my new M2. I have also used JL Audio amps & DSPs but I wanted more power & AudioControl amp is incredible.

Thanks for the insight. I'll probably end up replacing everything as well.

What speakers did you end up going with? And what's the model of the amp?

[yash27]

Originally Posted by Gdubb

I have full alpha one setup as well as BimmerCode bang and olufsen profiles. Both help but the alpha one was far and away the biggest upgrade. It’s not cheap but it’s 100% worth it

How is the bass in the alpha one compared to the HK?

[MASHCT]

Originally Posted by yash27

Thanks for the insight. I'll probably end up replacing everything as well.

What speakers did you end up going with? And what's the model of the amp?

Amp is the AudioControl D-6.1200. It has a built-in DSP. I also got the ACR3 remote controller so I can switch between tunes & control the sub output.

Morel IP-BMWSUB82 (you want a 2 ohm sub, regardless of brand. Make sure amp can handle 2 ohm load, most car audio aftermarket amps can. HK subs are 2 ohm, too.)

CDT Audio ES-42i for front and rear deck. I did not replace nor am I using the center or pssgr seat speakers. Note that these require cutting of OEM parts for the 4" midranges to fit as they have full size ferrite magnets. The plastic door panel behind the trim panel needs to be cut where the OEM speaker mounts. And same with the plastic trim under the OEM speakers on the rear deck. You also have to slightly round off the tip of the phase plug so it does not contact the OEM grill cover. If you are not comfortable doing that kind of work, I don't recommend these speakers.

It was a bit of a pain doing the install, but for me, totally worth it vs the other plug n play options. I am no stereo install or car mod whiz & I was able to pull this off. LOL I was just super careful, removing small amounts of trim where needed until everything fit, then stopped.

[yash27]

Originally Posted by MASHCT

Morel IP-BMWSUB82 (you want a 2 ohm sub, regardless of brand. Make sure amp can handle 2 ohm load, most car audio aftermarket amps can. HK subs are 2 ohm, too.)

CDT Audio ES-42i for front and rear deck. I did not replace nor am I using the center or pssgr seat speakers. Note that these require cutting of OEM parts for the 4" midranges to fit as they have full size ferrite magnets. The plastic door panel behind the trim panel needs to be cut where the OEM speaker mounts. And same with the plastic trim under the OEM speakers on the rear deck. You also have to slightly round off the tip of the phase plug so it does not contact the OEM grill cover. If you are not comfortable doing that kind of work, I don't recommend these speakers.

It was a bit of a pain doing the install, but for me, totally worth it vs the other plug n play options. I am no stereo install or car mod whiz & I was able to pull this off. LOL I was just super careful, removing small amounts of trim where needed until everything fit, then stopped.

Sounds like you tore the car apart getting all of those to fit in haha. I wasn't planning on doing all that (I feel like I'll mess up). I'll probably just end up going with one of the plug and play solutions and hope for the best. Thanks for your help!

[Carefree]

The impedance of a speaker (2,4,8 ohms) has absolutely nothing to do with its’ reproductive sound quality. None. A quality 8 ohm sub performs no different than a quality 2 or 4 ohm sub except it requires less amplifier power.

In actuality, lower impedance speakers are tougher loads on amplifiers than higher. Outside of Class D amplifiers, there is nothing which successfully drives a 2 ohm load.

In the high end audio world, very few manufacturers sell speakers with a nominal impedance under 4 ohms as they are too difficult to drive across the entire frequency spectrum. Both self powered subs in my $75K system are nominal 6 ohms.

Long long long time audiophile. All the way back to Saul Marantz, HH Scott, Fisher, etc. Few here will remember.

[MASHCT]

Originally Posted by Carefree

The impedance of a speaker (2,4,8 ohms) has absolutely nothing to do with its’ reproductive sound quality. None. A quality 8 ohm sub performs no different than a quality 2 or 4 ohm sub except it requires less amplifier power.

In actuality, lower impedance speakers are tougher loads on amplifiers than higher. Outside of Class D amplifiers, there is nothing which successfully drives a 2 ohm load.

In the high end audio world, very few manufacturers sell speakers with a nominal impedance under 4 ohms as they are too difficult to drive across the entire frequency spectrum. Both self powered subs in my $75K system are nominal 6 ohms.

Long long long time audiophile. All the way back to Saul Marantz, HH Scott, Fisher, etc. Few here will remember.

Audiophile here as well. The reason for the suggestion of 2 ohm sub is with a proper amp that can handle it, more power will be sent to a 2 ohm load vs a 4 ohm load. In the case of the AudioControl D-6.1200, you get 200wpc into a 2 ohm load. With the CDT 4 ohm speakers & 2 ohm subs, you wind up with 125wpc into the front & rears; 200wpc into the subs. More power without a separate amp.

Not that a car needs a ton of amp power, but it's enough additional power to make a difference in getting the 2 ohm subs vs 4.

[BroDoze]

I did car audio professionally for 8 years in a past life. Built $80k+ systems that placed in Nationals for Sound Quality and others for SPL.
Power is everything.
Sins can be forgiven with enough power.
Been an “audiophile” my whole life.
Looking forward to a new vehicle and new vehicle challenges. Have a boat load of ResoNIX gear ready and waiting. Then I’ll actually be able to hear what I’ll be dealing with.

[Gdubb]

Originally Posted by yash27

How is the bass in the alpha one compared to the HK?

It’s night and day

[Michael1316]

Originally Posted by MASHCT

Audiophile here as well. The reason for the suggestion of 2 ohm sub is with a proper amp that can handle it, more power will be sent to a 2 ohm load vs a 4 ohm load. In the case of the AudioControl D-6.1200, you get 200wpc into a 2 ohm load. With the CDT 4 ohm speakers & 2 ohm subs, you wind up with 125wpc into the front & rears; 200wpc into the subs. More power without a separate amp.

Not that a car needs a ton of amp power, but it's enough additional power to make a difference in getting the 2 ohm subs vs 4.

Why would it matter if you can send more power to it? Sending more power doesn't magically make a speaker sound better, it just lets you achieve a higher SPL.

You have to look at the sensitivity of a speaker to figure out how much power you need to hit the desired volume level. You can have very sensitive speakers that can get extremely loud with very little power, in which case a high-power amp isn't going to do anything for you unless you want hearing damage.

Also keep in mind doubling the power of an amp only gets you 3dB of extra output which isn't a very significant increase.

[Carefree]

Finally, somebody who gets it. ^^^

I have 2 separate pairs of speakers in my home system. One pair is driven by a 12WPC tube amp and the other pair by a 30WPC Class A solid state amp. Both will produce an SPL of paint peeling level. Why? Speaker sensitivity. Power is a single component of accurate audio reproduction.

Some day, hopefully, the boom boom bass box megawatt audio car crowd will wise up. Very loud in most car systems is mostly just noise.

[MASHCT]

Originally Posted by Michael1316

Why would it matter if you can send more power to it? Sending more power doesn't magically make a speaker sound better, it just lets you achieve a higher SPL.

You have to look at the sensitivity of a speaker to figure out how much power you need to hit the desired volume level. You can have very sensitive speakers that can get extremely loud with very little power, in which case a high-power amp isn't going to do anything for you unless you want hearing damage.

Also keep in mind doubling the power of an amp only gets you 3dB of extra output which isn't a very significant increase.

I already mentioned that the Morel subs are louder than the HK subs with the HK system, indicating they are likely more sensitive.

They are also 2 ohms, as are the HK.

The point of my "more power" comment is that you almost double your power rating, and therefore output, from 4 ohm load to 2 ohm load. And the general understanding is that you need about double the power to hear a volume difference. For example, going from 50 to 65 watts you won't hear any real volume difference at the same volume level.

Go from 50 to 100, you'll notice a volume difference. I am not saying you double the volume, at all. My comment is just that you don't want to take your already 2ohm driver and change it to 4ohm. I am saying, leave it 2ohm so you get more power to the subs, which is always the best answer with a proper, clean amp (which the AudioControl is.)

Proof is in the pudding... with the AudioControl amp in place and gain set at 0, and no clipping, my system sounds tons better and can play louder and cleaner with much better bass response. That is a function of a likely more sensitive driver, and more power driving the subs.

I''ve been into audio since I was a teen - 40+ years. I totally understand power, volume, SPL, etc... I totally get it.

[MASHCT]

Originally Posted by Carefree

Finally, somebody who gets it. ^^^

I have 2 separate pairs of speakers in my home system. One pair is driven by a 12WPC tube amp and the other pair by a 30WPC Class A solid state amp. Both will produce an SPL of paint peeling level. Why? Speaker sensitivity. Power is a single component of accurate audio reproduction.

Some day, hopefully, the boom boom bass box megawatt audio car crowd will wise up. Very loud in most car systems is mostly just noise.

I do not have, nor do I like, boom-boom bass box megawatt car audio here, nor am I a fan of it. I am also not running any extra subs, and I am only pushing 200 watts to my subs. My system is flat response (bass is actually slightly rolled off!) and my bass is clean and musical. No thumping, no one-note bass tones, bo buzzing, no bouncing at red lights. LOL

No wising up needed here.