[Rat_House]

Hard to listen to a guy talk about a performance car when he’s never driven a manual before.

[NotSharocks]

Everyone critiquing this dude's lack of manual skills.

I. LOVE. IT.

Yea it's not good but whatever he needs for views.

Also newer BMW manuals are not good at all so there's that.

[m2ss]

Originally Posted by Xspeedracer

I learned manual in both my parents cars moms 73 Bmw Bavaria, and dads 68 912 Porsche

My dad's '63 Beetle straight from the Fatherland...

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by Blue87

Please tell me the M2 or other performance BMW manual transmissions are similar to the S2000.

Sorry, no. BMW has the opposite philosophy from the short throw, notchy S2000.

However if this is the only thing you don't like about the M2, you can get shifter kits to fix that.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by zero21

I think the term "rubbery" pertains to the shifter's willingness to rotate itself into center position. It's "springy". That "spring" to it through gears is construed as "rubbery" because the human moving it isn't forcing it into it's intended position, rather, it's helping itself "spring to center".

Just my theory.

I think that's close to how I'd describe it. A rubbery shifter lets you leave the stick out of "resting spot," either a gear or neutral.

A less rubbery shifter tries to pull the stick into a resting spot, there's very little dead space. Also sometimes called a "gated feel." My analogy is a lightswitch, which tries to pull to either ON or OFF.

If you had to put a soundtrack to shifters, the S2000 would be CLICK, CLICK and the the BMW would be THUNK, THUNK.

Personally, I don't mind the rubbery shifter, because it's still precise and easy to slot into proper gears. It's the CLUTCH I have beef with. I do not understand BMW's view on clutch engagement and travel.

[Blue87]

Originally Posted by Squidget

" It's the CLUTCH I have beef with. I do not understand BMW's view on clutch engagement and travel.

Does the clutch have a long travel with a high engagement point (further away from the foot well)? That can sometimes be adjusted for using seat and steering wheel placement, however, some times it just doesn't help. Does BMW clutch pedal spring outwards near the end of travel or is the pressure consistent throughout? Appreciate the info.

[zero21]

Originally Posted by Blue87

Does the clutch have a long travel with a high engagement point (further away from the foot well)? That can sometimes be adjusted for using seat and steering wheel placement, however, some times it just doesn't help. Does BMW clutch pedal spring outwards near the end of travel or is the pressure consistent throughout? Appreciate the info.

Yes and yes.

[Blue87]

Originally Posted by zero21

Yes and yes.

Thanks for the info. That is unfortunate. Maybe I'll just keep the S2000 or maybe look into something else. I like that the M2 has back seats for children.

[zero21]

Originally Posted by Blue87

Thanks for the info. That is unfortunate. Maybe I'll just keep the S2000 or maybe look into something else. I like that the M2 has back seats for children.

You get used to it. But yeah, it's got its own flavor.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by Blue87

Thanks for the info. That is unfortunate. Maybe I'll just keep the S2000 or maybe look into something else. I like that the M2 has back seats for children.

I mean, it's the S2000, one of the great driver's cars of the last 25 years. It's tough to compete with that. You should keep it if you can.


If you need 2+2 seats, RWD 6MTs with good feel and balance are extremely rare. The M2 is a really good car overall, and both the clutch and shifter can be modded for better feel. So maybe give it a chance, because your options are limited.

The Audi RS3 is a direct competitor but not RWD, and is hella front-biased. The CT4-V Blackwing is also a damned good RWD car and has a less rubbery shifter. And if you have a much higher budget, consider one of the bigger Porsches.

[Laguna Seca Blue]

Originally Posted by zero21

I think the term "rubbery" pertains to the shifter's willingness to rotate itself into center position. It's "springy". That "spring" to it through gears is construed as "rubbery" because the human moving it isn't forcing it into it's intended position, rather, it's helping itself "spring to center".

Just my theory.

Interesting. I suppose rubbery could mean springy, but I’ve always associated that metaphor with dullness and lack of mechanical feel. I guess I need to get behind the wheel of the new manual Supra or an older S2000 and see what all the fuss is about, my frame of reference isn’t great. I’ve sat in the passenger seat of a gated shifter Gallardo, and those obviously have limited spring tension back to N, I’m just failing to understand how that changes the mechanical feel when you do engage a gear.

[vrooooom]

I think less dampened feel as the shifter engages in. it's like having a lot of thick grease on the gate. Based on my LCI M2 feel.

[deneed4spd]

Originally Posted by Squidget

Geez, learning stick on a car with 670HP (the BW)? Yikes.

Actually u can just put the car in 4th at a stop and it will go from 0-140 in that gear. Take that TH challenge!

[Blue87]

Originally Posted by Squidget

I mean, it's the S2000, one of the great driver's cars of the last 25 years. It's tough to compete with that. You should keep it if you can.


If you need 2+2 seats, RWD 6MTs with good feel and balance are extremely rare. The M2 is a really good car overall, and both the clutch and shifter can be modded for better feel. So maybe give it a chance, because your options are limited.

The Audi RS3 is a direct competitor but not RWD, and is hella front-biased. The CT4-V Blackwing is also a damned good RWD car and has a less rubbery shifter. And if you have a much higher budget, consider one of the bigger Porsches.

The problem with the S2K is that I don't get to drive it much due to my kids not being able to sit in it. It's a blast to drive, despite not being very fast in acceleration. I suppose I could just keep it since it cost me only insurance. Maybe one of the dealerships would let me test drive the M2...it's worth a shot. That CT4 is worth a look and would easily house backseat passengers.

[deneed4spd]

Originally Posted by Blue87

The problem with the S2K is that I don't get to drive it much due to my kids not being able to sit in it. It's a blast to drive, despite not being very fast in acceleration. I suppose I could just keep it since it cost me only insurance. Maybe one of the dealerships would let me test drive the M2...it's worth a shot. That CT4 is worth a look and would easily house backseat passengers.

CT4 BW is a solid choice but if your a big guy, you don’t leave much space in the back seat legroom. Back seat is pretty cramped. I’m 5’6 and my head pretty much grazes the back headliner when I sit upright. I think my OG m2 had more verticals space in the backseat. If you got little kids, will work but teenagers will be cramped. U might have to move up to the CT5BW but then your in a big car but when u drive it, it seems to shrink around you a bit. Not to mention LT4 motor and tremac is pretty darn fun.

[TruthOne]

LOL at all the attacking his driving. For someone admitting he doesn’t know how to drive a stick he’s doing pretty good. He’s not stalling and seems to be doing fine. I guess everybody trashing him just got into a stick and drove off like Mario Andretti at 15 with no practice .

[zero21]

Originally Posted by Blue87

The problem with the S2K is that I don't get to drive it much due to my kids not being able to sit in it. It's a blast to drive, despite not being very fast in acceleration. I suppose I could just keep it since it cost me only insurance. Maybe one of the dealerships would let me test drive the M2...it's worth a shot. That CT4 is worth a look and would easily house backseat passengers.

The M2 is kid friendly if you only need the bare bones. If you have to take toys, accessories, water bottles, etc it is not good. Also you need really slim car seats to fit - most will cover the seat belt buckle.

One of the main reasons I bought the car was my kids could come along, but my infant'd seat does not fit unless I drive with my chest 10in front the steering wheel (close is my point).

[M2PDX]

Originally Posted by Blue87

Thanks for the info. That is unfortunate. Maybe I'll just keep the S2000 or maybe look into something else. I like that the M2 has back seats for children.

Easy fix. Buy a $10 Burger clutch stop. Pretty common 1st mod. Super easy. Used it on my last 4 BMWs.

An AutoSolutions, Rogue, Dinan or UUC short shift kit will probably make a huge difference as well.

[JustinHEMI]

Originally Posted by TruthOne

LOL at all the attacking his driving. For someone admitting he doesn’t know how to drive a stick he’s doing pretty good. He’s not stalling and seems to be doing fine. I guess everybody trashing him just got into a stick and drove off like Mario Andretti at 15 with no practice .

It was 12 for me. 1984 Renault Alliance. Took to it like a pro. Funny you mention Mario, my nickname at Work is "Mario Andretti JusinHEMI."

That said, I get your point, but it might be hyperbolic. Are people really attacking him? I do appreciate that he's willing to dive into the deep end and learn a manual on a car such as this.

That said, I think I missed the part of the video where it was "pushed hard."

[Blue87]

Originally Posted by zero21

The M2 is kid friendly if you only need the bare bones. If you have to take toys, accessories, water bottles, etc it is not good. Also you need really slim car seats to fit - most will cover the seat belt buckle.

One of the main reasons I bought the car was my kids could come along, but my infant'd seat does not fit unless I drive with my chest 10in front the steering wheel (close is my point).

Right now both are using a booster with back support and would hopefully fit. The X5 would be reserved for trips that require additional gear such as suitcases etc. Around town the just need water bottle, snacks, small toys and small bag for pool trips. My goal in purchasing one would be to get a sporty fun to drive car that my kids can fit in and seems like this should work, minus the clutch travel and engagement point which has some aftermarket solutions. Good info, it's greatly appreciated.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by Blue87

Right now both are using a booster with back support and would hopefully fit. The X5 would be reserved for trips that require additional gear such as suitcases etc. Around town the just need water bottle, snacks, small toys and small bag for pool trips. My goal in purchasing one would be to get a sporty fun to drive car that my kids can fit in and seems like this should work, minus the clutch travel and engagement point which has some aftermarket solutions. Good info, it's greatly appreciated.

Probably would work, since the M2 has an actual trunk. Good luck!

[DailyDownshift]

Will do a more proper review at the 1 month ownership mark, by then my manual skills will have improved significantly lol