[Squidget]

Originally Posted by chris719

It means that the car is so good that people are willing to overlook the look of the car. Which they are not willing to do for the regular 4 series. I’ve asked like 15+ non car people and no one likes the grille. At best I get indifferent. Anyway I don’t mean to make this about G80/2 but saying that people like the styling because it sold a lot of units is total nonsense. Toyota sells a ton of ugly vehicles.

Ah, I understand, TY.

[baron95]

AWD has little to do with snow or rain vs dry. It has to do with maximizing acceleration.

With 2WD (depending on driving axle and weight distribution) you have roughly 50% of the braking traction available to accelerate. If your engine power exceeds that available traction, your car can't accelerate faster. With AWD/4WD you have 100% of the braking traction available to accelerate.

It is as simple as that. And that is true regardless of dry, rain, snow. The only difference is that in low traction surfaces, you reach the acceleration traction limits at lower engine horsepower.

In any event, with M cars being at the 500HP+ level you can not use max power to accelerate out of a corner on track (for example), so your engine power is un-usable (limited by your foot or traction control).

AWD is about allowing you to use more of the power that the M-engines have on tap.

The downside - messes up steering feel, geometry and sometimes raises the engine a bit.

At the 300HP level, give me RWD.

At the 500HP level, could go either way.

At the 700+HP level, give me rear-biased AWD.

(at no HP level give me Audi AWD)

[bromudez]

Originally Posted by jmg

How quickly we forget. All these Porsches were generally disliked at the time of their release. Some still have a following today, and all have experienced highs and lows of desirability:












I personally love the slant nose, but it was hated by many:

Agreed

Fried egg was probably the worst IMO

[bromudez]

Originally Posted by zero21

I agree with your post's sentiment, but...

It's been blasted into this forum by every F87 Comp and CS guy known to man that the G87's crappy engine tuning, bloated weight, etc. makes it a cucumber.

It needed to be written in objective data to put these claims to bed.

Forum members making such claims are out to lunch no doubt. But people seem to be celebrating the fact that they’re finally getting an objective review of the G87 which implies previous reviews weren’t.

But I haven’t seen reviewers making the claim that the G87 was a worse performer. Savagegeese didn’t, Camisa didn’t. Not sure who did TBH. The numbers on paper don’t seem to be their qualms about the car.

So on the surface it seems the only thing making this review better or more objective than the rest is the fact that it’s conclusions we’re much more glowing and aligned with the feelings of G87 buyers.

PS - This isn’t an angry F87 guy bagging on your car. I’m on a waitlist for the CS variant myself.

[02M3ForMe]

Originally Posted by baron95

The downside - messes up steering feel, geometry and sometimes raises the engine a bit.

M xDrive sends only enough torque to the front to maximize available grip without compromising cornering and steering feel. The G8x doesn't exhibit any old-school AWD understeer.

Originally Posted by baron95

At the 300HP level, give me RWD.

At the 500HP level, could go either way.

At the 700+HP level, give me rear-biased AWD.

This is me, but also for transmission choice. 300hp, give me manual. 500hp, manual or auto works. Greater than 500hp, auto/DCT all the way.

[zero21]

Originally Posted by bromudez

Forum members making such claims are out to lunch no doubt. But people seem to be celebrating the fact that they’re finally getting an objective review of the G87 which implies previous reviews weren’t.

But I haven’t seen reviewers making the claim that the G87 was a worse performer. Savagegeese didn’t, Camisa didn’t. Not sure who did TBH. The numbers on paper don’t seem to be their qualms about the car.

So on the surface it seems the only thing making this review better or more objective than the rest is the fact that it’s conclusions we’re much more glowing and aligned with the feelings of G87 buyers.

PS - This isn’t an angry F87 guy bagging on your car. I’m on a waitlist for the CS variant myself.

That's fair. The comment I made "objective review" was really just a full instrumented testing. I'm more of a numbers person, and I should have clarified that better.

[adc]

Originally Posted by 02M3ForMe

M xDrive sends only enough torque to the front to maximize available grip without compromising cornering and steering feel.

There is exactly zero steering feel in the G80 Comp xDrive. I just drove one the other day, and it would never make it in my garage even if it was free.

I hope the G87 is better in that regard.


Just personal preference of course.

[m2ss]

Originally Posted by bromudez

But I haven’t seen reviewers making the claim that the G87 was a worse performer. Savagegeese didn’t, Camisa didn’t. Not sure who did TBH. The numbers on paper don’t seem to be their qualms about the car.

So on the surface it seems the only thing making this review better or more objective than the rest is the fact that it’s conclusions we’re much more glowing and aligned with the feelings of G87 buyers.

Exactly, things usually went sideways when the car's appearance, weight and/or "feel" came up.

To me what's funny is that when the first pics came out I hated it. The recent comparison videos (Supra/Nissan Z) really highlighted how much better it looked (to me anyways) which just goes to show how these reviews mean different things to different folks...

[Allerum]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

the awd doesnt really add any performance. on a 400+ second 'ring lap it was only 2 seconds faster. that said i'd still spec it for resale value. its what most people want. here in the midwest i've never needed more than rwd and snow tire.

You just stated a performance improvement of 2 seconds. Now the Ring is a very open and flowing track. And even then AWD is faster. If you get down into a tighter circuit you would have even more benefit. 2 seconds faster is two seconds faster than maximum attack RWD in the dry. Add any kind of adverse temperature or conditions and your time gap will be larger.

[ASAP]

1/4 Mile - 11.8@120

Not sure if anyone noticed BUT that is 4 MPH faster than an M2C from prior gen and is faster than a 6MT G80... so the auto tranny clearly does a ton for this car. 120 MPH is mighty impressive imho and far faster than I expected... LOL at comparing this car to the older gen.

Another key comment here for those that are lost and confused-

M2 in the Real World

Highway ride and confidence on a winding road were not the previous M2's strong suits. That's all changed for the better. The new model's adaptive multi-mode dampers worked extremely well, even on the roughest roads and highways. Tightened down for a trip up a mountain road, the same certainty we felt on the test track translated directly to real-world driving enthusiasm. No doubt the longer wheelbase, wider track width, and all that good rubber on the road are worth the weight gain.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by chris719

It means that the car is so good that people are willing to overlook the look of the car. Which they are not willing to do for the regular 4 series. I’ve asked like 15+ non car people and no one likes the grille. At best I get indifferent. Anyway I don’t mean to make this about G80/2 but saying that people like the styling because it sold a lot of units is total nonsense. Toyota sells a ton of ugly vehicles.

Your rationale is flawed beyond belief.

[M2Cmtl]

People forget the M2C « mustache » had a pretty negative reception at first.

[m2ss]

Originally Posted by M2Cmtl

People forget the M2C « mustache » had a pretty negative reception at first.

LOL...the "stashe" paled in comparison to the diaper/udder of an exhaust.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by ASAP

1/4 Mile - 11.8@120

Not sure if anyone noticed BUT that is 4 MPH faster than an M2C from prior gen and is faster than a 6MT G80... so the auto tranny clearly does a ton for this car.

These cars have been really optimized for the auto/DCT since E92. It wasn't so bad then, but you can definitely tell there is lag that exists in the F8x 6MT after shifts occasionally that does not ever happen on the DCT cars. It's a shame BMW has not put any effort at all into this like GM has with their Camaros and Blackwing cars which can hold boost through MT shifts and offer no-lift-shift.

[Blue Angel]

Originally Posted by adc

…G80 Comp xDrive… …would never make it in my garage even if it was free.

Bwahahahaha! Ah, peak internet car forum.

[baron95]

Originally Posted by 02M3ForMe

M xDrive sends only enough torque to the front to maximize available grip without compromising cornering and steering feel. The G8x doesn't exhibit any old-school AWD understeer.

While I'm somewhat in agreement, let's not go overboard.

G80 xDrive from the factory, has ~1 degree less front camber, higher weight, slightly higher front end, and steering that is less crisp.

While I agree that it is a very good system, there are certainly some downsides.

If the G87 was offered with xDrive at the same HP level, I'm not sure which one I'd get, but prob RWD.

[02M3ForMe]

Originally Posted by baron95

While I'm somewhat in agreement, let's not go overboard.

G80 xDrive from the factory, has ~1 degree less front camber, higher weight, slightly higher front end, and steering that is less crisp.

While I agree that it is a very good system, there are certainly some downsides.

If the G87 was offered with xDrive at the same HP level, I'm not sure which one I'd get, but prob RWD.

My comments are based on ownership experience with G82s both in xDrive and in pure RWD. I didn't detect any meaningful downsides to M xDrive in my time with that version. It never felt less crisp to steer than the RWD cars (maybe due to the slightly faster steering rack?).

I've pushed it quite hard and was impressed by how well M xDrive does in corners. I could see why the xDrive cars were seeing incrementally faster lap times over the RWD Comp at most venues. As mentioned, has nothing to do with skill, the car just does a stellar job optimizing its usage of available grip at both axles. Well worth the weight penalty.

In this video, they explain that the system watches for understeer and actively avoids it. It works exactly as I described previously.

[NotSharocks]

Wow the new version is moar better.

Did ya'll know this?

LOL