[anitasanger]

Car manufacturers are notorious for making claims, then backing them up when mandates aren’t enforced, people don’t buy the product, etc. What are the odds of BMW maintaining at least one pure ICE car? I’m talking no plug-in hybrids, no EV assistance of any kind, and a manual tranny? Even if it’s only a base next gen m2?

I’m a BMW guy and love my G87, but if the insist on EV integration and auto transmissions, I guess I’ll be forced to look at Porsche’s, who thus far, seem to be dedicated to enthusiast’s pure ICE offerings, devoid of bold future-tech declarations.

Or when BMW said the m2 will be the final newly developed ICE M with a stick, did they mean it?

[NewToM]

Let me get my crystal ball brb…

[anitasanger]

Philosophical predictions.

[Tag]

There Will Be No Manual Porsche 911 in 2025

[two_three_two]

as an avid fan of wild speculation-

in the near term, i think the euro and american brands are headed for the EV/hybrid singularity. there's too much $$$ invested in it. "too big to fail" if you will. even if the product is subpar for many years, even if the electrical grid can't support it, even if it costs billions in taxpayer dollars to subsidize. too much cash was bet on black to come up red now. having said that, Porsche has already killed the 6/7 speed (for now) but AMG is allegedly bringing back the V8.

japan- different story. they will benefit mightily from their insistence on walking the line. they also benefit from having mostly 4, and some 6 cylinder performance cars. they can thread the needle on ICE regulations for quite some time with those.

further down the line- if i could tell you with any accuracy, i would be posting this from my nantucket compound.

[anitasanger]

Originally Posted by M2siast

Not another EV thread, with a "I'll have to go to Porsche" crap..

First, there are multiple EV threads you can enjoy discussing this. If your goal is to say your car will be special, put it in a barn and find out in a 100 years.

Porsche is a brand that maintains pure ICE? Where did you take this from? Have you not seen the new 992.2? It's a hybrid, it has a battery and an electric motor. It's not pure ICE.

And if Porsche is what one looks for, why come to the M2 forums? The M2 doesn't compete with any Porsche, and Porsche doesn't make any competitor to most of the BMW range (save a small overlap with the Macan and X3 and the Cayenne and X5).

A. No one made you read it, let alone hammer out a masturbatory reply loaded with assumptions, which don’t pertain to anything I said.

2. Who said anything about anyone’s car being special? Perhaps, your reply should relate to things I actually said, rather than preposterous assumptions. Your logic skills need a ground-up, Neue Klasse overhaul.

D. Yet again, where on earth did I say that Porsche “maintains pure ICE?” I didn’t; you’re making things up so you can argue against imaginary postulations. If you re-read what I wrote, and actually take the time to comprehend what it said, you would see that I mentioned Porche’s continued ICE offerings, devoid of bold future-tech declarations. Assuming this is still lost on you, let me break it down into simpler terms:

Porsche has not declared that ALL future performance models (ala BMW M) will he auto-only hybrids.

It really wasn’t that confusing, and either your assertions were disengenuine, or you have a low IQ.

Da: Yet again, if I was looking for a Porsche, I would have a Porsche. Perhaps, you missed the part where I said, “I’m a BMW guy.” If I wanted a Porsche, why would I be pining for BMW to retain their traditional ICE/MT model?

Nothing about your reply was even vaguely helpful. I guess you enjoy fabricating arguments, which you can then argue against, thus becoming the hero of your own delusion. Very unimpressive.

[anitasanger]

Originally Posted by M2siast

Oooh Anita really is angry.
You're feisty, I like that.
Bonus points for the humour bits built in your post in your sequence of points

Your OP reads "I’m a BMW guy and love my G87, but if the insist on EV integration and auto transmissions, I guess I’ll be forced to look at Porsche’s, who thus far, seem to be dedicated to enthusiast’s pure ICE offerings, devoid of bold future-tech declarations."

You said, literally, that if BMW insists on integrating EV, you'll be forced into looking at "Porsche's" (sic).
I countered that with: "Porsches are already integrating EVs", the Macan is fully electric (the ICE model is a prior generation), the 911 is a hybrid, and this is the beginning.

How is it a strawman from my post to say that you said Porsche is maintaining ICE, if you are countering BMW's direction with Porsche's, and you said they "seem to be dedicated to enthusiast's pure ICE offerings". Did you mean a GT3???????? So, IF BMW DOESN'T OFFER ME A PURE ICE OPTION, I'LL HAVE TO BUY A GT3? Did I misunderstand? I don't think I did. Go buy one.

I agree I have low IQ.
But where did you take Porsche is going in a different direction?

Again, points for being feisty. But your logic is flawed.

I don’t need to be told what I said. I already said it. It is you who can’t comprehend the spirit of the conversation. I point out each example of your rampant illogic, point by point, and your world-class reply is that my logic is flawed. Classic stuff, man.

Again, I’ll try to break this down into the most basic explanation in hopes that I might break through to you.

1. I like gasoline, I hate electric motors, and I like pushing clutch pedals.
2. I like BMWs. That’s what I ride and what I drive.
3. BMW says no new designs in the combination of: gasoline, no electric motors, and clutch pedals.
4. Porsche has not made that declaration.

Why on earth you’re making declarations, such as, “but Porsche has electric ones! Macan, 911, blah, blah blah,” is beyond me.

When did I state that Porsches haven’t dabbled in electrification? That was never my assertion. You’re arguing with yourself.

Of course a GT3 is among the inferred performance cars still developed with ICE/MT, as is the 718 GTS, etc. I shouldn’t have even said “Porsche,” as that would surely trigger someone (you)—given that I can’t even afford one. What I meant was, whatever manufacturer is producing an ICE/MT, and Porsche happens to be the first that came to mind.

I get that webforums are extremely tribalistic, as you’ve demonstrated brilliantly by becoming so triggered at the mere mention of Porsche, but I don’t get into all that. My loyalties lie with a personal desire to drive a performance machine powered by petrol, and operated with 3 pedals. If BMW isn’t offering this in 5 years, yet other manufacturers are, I’m going to choose operational satisfaction over brand loyalty. Anything else is gross.

That said, I DO love BMW’s brand, most notably, the heritage of M, and would PREFER to operate 3 pedals and burn gas in a BMW. This is merely a discussion of possibilities, which are tethered to changing politics, industry disruptions, supply chains, consumer liquidity, and market demands. Heaven forbid anyone start a new discussion, which is relevant to RIGHT NOW, as many of those things are changing fast. Your insistence that I go read a 2 year old thread is preposterous.

You really should think things through before you begin banging out replies. Step away from the dim glow of your tribe’s fire and consider things objectively. The mere mention of Porsche shouldn’t have you running for a safe space.

[two_three_two]

G87 production will continue until 2029. buy one now, see if you like it, and if yes buy another before they go out of production. problem solved

[JABCAT]

I'm sure there will be ICE vehicles for quite some time. GM is already walking back their "all EV by 2035" nonsense. Nobody is buying their EV Silverados, and they've already mentioned the next Corvette will have at least 1 model with an ICE engine. They are hardly producing any ERays currently that debuted as a '24 model.

The other manufacturers will realize EV doesn't sell & hopefully tell the governments to f-off. If not, there are millions of used non-evs available. Don't always need the next newest thing - cell phone generation

[anitasanger]

Originally Posted by M2siast

I give up.

All you do is ad hominem and divert from the questions at hand with strawmen.

I'll just leave this here, my IQ is too low to debate you, but others will make it what they will:

BMW:
https://www.bmwgroup.com/en/report/2021/bmw-group-report/the-future-is-electric/index.html

"By 2030, at least half of the BMW Group’s global deliveries should be fully electric vehicles. Over the next ten years, we also plan to put around 10-million all-electric vehicles on the road."

Porsche:
https://newsroom.porsche.com/en_US/2022/company/porsche-annual-press-conference-financial-year-2021-annual-and-sustainability-report-27766.html

"In 2025, half of all new Porsche sales are expected to come from the sale of electric vehicles – i.e. all-electric or plug-in hybrid," announced Oliver Blume. "In 2030, the share of all new vehicles with an all-electric drive should be more than 80 percent."

Take care Anita. Over and out.

Nice try with the logical fallacy attempt, but knowing a term doesn’t mean that you understand it. I’ve presented no strawmen, and the low IQ remark was an honest observation—an observation, which you admitted was accurate—so ad hominem’s out the window too.

You further proved this point in your most recent reply, which cites unrelated proclamations about electrification goals. I don’t care, it’s irrelevant.

One last time, the topic was/is: the possibility of pure ICE, 3 pedal M cars beyond the g87 in spite of BMW’s damning declaration—and subsequently, Porsche’s lack of such a claim.

[anitasanger]

Originally Posted by JABCAT

I'm sure there will be ICE vehicles for quite some time. GM is already walking back their "all EV by 2035" nonsense. Nobody is buying their EV Silverados, and they've already mentioned the next Corvette will have at least 1 model with an ICE engine. They are hardly producing any ERays currently that debuted as a '24 model.

The other manufacturers will realize EV doesn't sell & hopefully tell the governments to f-off. If not, there are millions of used non-evs available. Don't always need the next newest thing - cell phone generation

True. I also read that the XM was being phased out also. People don’t want the fastest thing if it’s heavy as a 747.

[two_three_two]

i believe BMW at this current point that the next phase of M will all be hybrid autos. after that, crystal ball. back to the point on too much money sunk in to back out yet, but if sales absolutely shit the bed like they did for the 4 cyl C63 (lol) then the backtracking might be epic

[Carefree]

Originally Posted by anitasanger

A. No one made you read it, let alone hammer out a masturbatory reply loaded with assumptions, which don’t pertain to anything I said.

2. Who said anything about anyone’s car being special? Perhaps, your reply should relate to things I actually said, rather than preposterous assumptions. Your logic skills need a ground-up, Neue Klasse overhaul.

D. Yet again, where on earth did I say that Porsche “maintains pure ICE?” I didn’t; you’re making things up so you can argue against imaginary postulations. If you re-read what I wrote, and actually take the time to comprehend what it said, you would see that I mentioned Porche’s continued ICE offerings, devoid of bold future-tech declarations. Assuming this is still lost on you, let me break it down into simpler terms:

Porsche has not declared that ALL future performance models (ala BMW M) will he auto-only hybrids.

It really wasn’t that confusing, and either your assertions were disengenuine, or you have a low IQ.

Da: Yet again, if I was looking for a Porsche, I would have a Porsche. Perhaps, you missed the part where I said, “I’m a BMW guy.” If I wanted a Porsche, why would I be pining for BMW to retain their traditional ICE/MT model?

Nothing about your reply was even vaguely helpful. I guess you enjoy fabricating arguments, which you can then argue against, thus becoming the hero of your own delusion. Very unimpressive.

Have you tried decaf?

[anitasanger]

Originally Posted by Carefree

Have you tried decaf?

The automatic, plug-in hybrid of beverages? Nah.

[Carefree]

Originally Posted by anitasanger

The automatic, plug-in hybrid of beverages? Nah.

Ok just trying to keep the BP at reasonable levels without metoprolol.

[VR1]

Is it just me or is the G87 forum sort of insane with every thread devolving into name calling and verbal abuse lol.

I spend more time here for entertainment than I do the forum for the car I actually own lol.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by VR1

Is it just me or is the G87 forum sort of insane with every thread devolving into name calling and verbal abuse lol.

I spend more time here for entertainment than I do the forum for the car I actually own lol.

Yes, this is a bad subforum right now. The F87 forum is much more mature and informative.

[BimmerFix]

Originally Posted by VR1

Is it just me or is the G87 forum sort of insane with every thread devolving into name calling and verbal abuse lol.

I spend more time here for entertainment than I do the forum for the car I actually own lol.

I mean it does happen from time to time, but lately it’s been running rampant

[Ravenseal]

Originally Posted by M2siast

That's ACTUALLY my plan. I already have one, and if the news are doomy, I'll secure another one before the "end". It'll likely be my last car anyway, as I keep them a long time.

I don't believe we'll go full electric forever, I think there'll always be ICE in some form, with a manual. Even if it takes a cycle or two. I may not live that long, so a 2029 sounds good to me

Also hoping for a special edition 2029 G87 with a 6MT as a send off. My 2023 should have 40,000 miles by then

[RPM33]

Originally Posted by anitasanger

Car manufacturers are notorious for making claims, then backing them up when mandates aren’t enforced, people don’t buy the product, etc. What are the odds of BMW maintaining at least one pure ICE car? I’m talking no plug-in hybrids, no EV assistance of any kind, and a manual tranny? Even if it’s only a base next gen m2?

I’m a BMW guy and love my G87, but if the insist on EV integration and auto transmissions, I guess I’ll be forced to look at Porsche’s, who thus far, seem to be dedicated to enthusiast’s pure ICE offerings, devoid of bold future-tech declarations.

Or when BMW said the m2 will be the final newly developed ICE M with a stick, did they mean it?

The world is going hybrid (Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, McLaren,etc.) and then eventually all-electric. BMW M is going hybrid starting with M5.

Brand new ICE cars with a manual will probably go extinct in the 2030's. You have to deal with it or buy used cars. Stop trying to beat a dead horse.

The 992.2 911 GT3 may be manual, but good luck in getting an allocation.

[murderspice]

Originally Posted by VR1

Is it just me or is the G87 forum sort of insane with every thread devolving into name calling and verbal abuse lol.

I spend more time here for entertainment than I do the forum for the car I actually own lol.

The worst thing about the g87 is its owners.

[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by murderspice

The worst thing about the g87 is its owners.

we heard you the first 28 times