[mtoosexy]

Originally Posted by 6speed_M2

The new M2 is twice the car of the old one, but with it only being 20-30lbs lighter than the M4 and having no xDrive option, less tech with the drivers assistance pack missing some items & having lower quality leather (no ventilated seats either), how can the M2 be better than the M4 in any objective way?

If the tiny fraction on the track from the weight means that much, the C7/8 Z06 is probably the better option.

Two things
1. The M4 looks bloated, I have'nt seen one in person that looks ok from a distance... Plus, I will NOT buy a AWD car, No thank you
2. I have my name on a list at Chevy for WHEN/IF they turn out a 6spd Z06. GM won't get a penny out of me unless they offer a manual!!

[baron95]

Originally Posted by bromudez

Shame on Porsche for designing cars that aren’t being roasted online on a daily basis. Poor design, lads.

Porsche is a producer of bland SUVs, and no one talks about the Macan or Cayenne design.

They happen to have the 911 - the quintessential ugly car with atrocious handling, that they made great after 1/2 a century of improvements.

While I absolutely love the Cayman and respect Porsche's focus on performance (no single piston rear brakes there), I'd not say that styling is their forte. Non car people never even notice a Porsche as it goes by.

[baron95]

Originally Posted by cmgbk75

You mean the MET Gala?

That one - thanks for correcting.

[baron95]

Originally Posted by Squidget

I admit I'm surprised the G87 out skid-padded the CS, especially with the difference in tires (Cup2 vs PS4S) and weight.

Wider front track, wider tires, and the fact that the star spec PS4S is very close to the star spec PSC2, almost guaranteed it.

Weight is not much a consideration in steady state skid pad numbers.

[6speed_M2]

Originally Posted by mtoosexy

Two things
1. The M4 looks bloated, I have'nt seen one in person that looks ok from a distance... Plus, I will NOT buy a AWD car, No thank you
2. I have my name on a list at Chevy for WHEN/IF they turn out a 6spd Z06. GM won't get a penny out of me unless they offer a manual!!

I can see where you’re coming from. It does not have that same look in person IMO but it feels slightly bloated from the drivers seat so there’s that as well.

What’s wrong with the AWD? If you’re afraid of an issue with the diff I can understand, although I don’t think it would give issues. You can basically drive it in RWD 24/7 if you wanted and use the AWD on occasion for rain/snow or launches.

It’s systems don’t operate like a traditional AWD car. It’s essentially RWD until the front needs to be activated like a magic carpet to save you. If you ask me, that’s epic.

I don’t ever see the C8 in a manual. Get that C7 Z06 while you can!!

[10"]

Originally Posted by 6speed_M2

I can see where you’re coming from. It does not have that same look in person IMO but it feels slightly bloated from the drivers seat so there’s that as well.

What’s wrong with the AWD? If you’re afraid of an issue with the diff I can understand, although I don’t think it would give issues. You can basically drive it in RWD 24/7 if you wanted and use the AWD on occasion for rain/snow or launches.

It’s systems don’t operate like a traditional AWD car. It’s essentially RWD until the front needs to be activated like a magic carpet to save you. If you ask me, that’s epic.

I don’t ever see the C8 in a manual. Get that C7 Z06 while you can!!

You don’t need AWD. Just get snow tires and learn how to drive better in the snow. AWD is a crutch for someone who is scared.

I’ve driven my 1M thru Nor’easter blizzards on snow tires to get to a hospital job on time—-it just takes experience and practice.

an AWD M car is something I will never acknowledge. From ultimate driving machine to ultimate sell out!! The Audi-fication that should have never happened.

[Lucky1]

Originally Posted by 10"

You don’t need AWD. Just get snow tires and learn how to drive better in the snow. AWD is a crutch for someone who is scared.

I’ve driven my 1M thru Nor’easter blizzards on snow tires to get to a hospital job on time—-it just takes experience and practice.

an AWD M car is something I will never acknowledge. From ultimate driving machine to ultimate sell out!! The Audi-fication that should have never happened.

Lots of things one doesn’t NEED. I certainly wouldn’t need to dedicate the additional energy to keep a powerful RWD car stable in blizzardy or extra slick conditions. Yeah it can be done but life’s calmer and easier with AWD. Even with winter tires and LSD my M3 can barely move in slush or deep snow. Why would I WANT that?

I have a 911 w/ AWD and there’s nothing my RWD cars so that makes me prefer the drivetrain over my RWD BMW’s, especially on hard throttle on and off the track. It turns just as good (better!) and has as much feedback as my BMW’s. What’s the problem here? In a winter climate as an only car AWD makes sense. Even in the rain it inspires confidence and can help you achieve great results. Scared, lol. Give me a break dude, do you prefer to use a table saw without any safety glasses just to feel macho? ABS, traction control and seatbelts are a waste of time and weight too, right? I don’t believe applying a bit of extra risk management to one’s life makes one scared; wise perhaps.

In a southern climate with no precipitation or as a weekend car only sure RWD is great or good enough.

And the contributor who said the 911 is ugly…really? How many posters in bedroom walls are you on LOL. Another person’s treasure is another person’s trash eh?

[Davil]

Originally Posted by Lucky1

And the contributor who said the 911 is ugly…really? How many posters in bedroom walls are you on LOL. Another person’s treasure is another person’s trash eh?

Granted it’s the bedroom wall of a 45 year old lawyer or real estate agent that’s just left his wife though.

[zero21]

Originally Posted by bromudez

New car performs better. Earth shattering stuff right there.

Wonder what’s faster G80 or F80? Stay tuned

I agree with your post's sentiment, but...

It's been blasted into this forum by every F87 Comp and CS guy known to man that the G87's crappy engine tuning, bloated weight, etc. makes it a cucumber.

It needed to be written in objective data to put these claims to bed.

[M2Cmtl]

There is lots of emotional attachment to these cars. Its normal that the new car makes you recoil at first. Comes down to styling, because everything else seems better on the new car. Same formula but without feeling like a detuned version of the big brother, no more wheel hop and ride way better. Seems like a win to me.

[Allerum]

Originally Posted by 10"

You don’t need AWD. Just get snow tires and learn how to drive better in the snow. AWD is a crutch for someone who is scared.

I’ve driven my 1M thru Nor’easter blizzards on snow tires to get to a hospital job on time—-it just takes experience and practice.

an AWD M car is something I will never acknowledge. From ultimate driving machine to ultimate sell out!! The Audi-fication that should have never happened.

M Division did not add AWD for snow. They added it for corner exit and stability. Does it help in snow and rain? Yes, but it was added for maximum performance. I fully expect an AWD CS M2 or something.

[M2Cmtl]

Just get the G80 if you want AWD. The price delta for an AWD G87 will be too close to the G80 if you ask me. For the CS it will probably make sense but not the base M2.

[M_Power Rob]

Originally Posted by Allerum

M Division did not add AWD for snow. They added it for corner exit and stability. Does it help in snow and rain? Yes, but it was added for maximum performance. I fully expect an AWD CS M2 or something.

Not so much in rain. A car with AWD will still hydroplane.

Also, keep in mind the xdrive system is not the same as say Audi's quattro.

https://www.bmwblog.com/2021/04/01/b...-audi-quattro/

[Allerum]

Originally Posted by M_Power Rob

Not so much in rain. A car with AWD will still hydroplane.

Also, keep in mind the xdrive system is not the same as say Audi's quattro.

https://www.bmwblog.com/2021/04/01/b...-audi-quattro/

I know its not the same, its way more similar to the R34 GTR's system. I also had a Haldex Rs3 also different. What does RWD have to do with hydroplaning? Now it can help save some hydroplaning situations but hydroplaning is a factor of tire tread depth vs puddles.

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by M_Power Rob

I am actually in the market for a new high flusing powered toilet...any recommendations?

Here you go. On special for only $8,625!

https://www.kohler.com/en/products/t...flush-30754-pa

[M_Power Rob]

Originally Posted by Allerum

I know its not the same, its way more similar to the R34 GTR's system. I also had a Haldex Rs3 also different. What does RWD have to do with hydroplaning? Now it can help save some hydroplaning situations but hydroplaning is a factor of tire tread depth vs puddles.

I was stating an AWD will hydroplane just as FWD and RWD cars will (when the playing fields are equal).

[M_Power Rob]

Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon

Here you go. On special for only $8,6251!

https://www.kohler.com/en/products/t...flush-30754-pa

Inwill hold out for the cf version. I am guessing production is delayed on those.

[Humdizzle]

the awd doesnt really add any performance. on a 400+ second 'ring lap it was only 2 seconds faster. that said i'd still spec it for resale value. its what most people want. here in the midwest i've never needed more than rwd and snow tire.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by M_Power Rob

I was stating an AWD will hydroplane just as FWD and RWD cars will (when the playing fields are equal).

True.

And AWD helps you on snow under acceleration, but not if you are coasting or decelerating. So you don't NEED it, but it is nice.

Mid-engine worries me more than drive system because I've had blizzard winds literally push my car off the road before. The tendency to spin can lead to much more dangerous collisions.

I know the right answer is to NOT drive a mid-engine car in a blizzard, duh. But in my defense it was a freak pop-up blizzard outside of Buffalo, it happens.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by MMMGuy60

The G80 M3/M4 is best seller. It is breaking records in sales. If the majority of the people hate it, who is buying them? Outside of the F87/F80 owners and trolls, the majority of the public like it. Enough of the 20-year-old bland BMW design, the public has spoken.

Sales are not a good gauge. The decision to buy is based on much more than just the front of the car. For what it’s worth, I see maybe 10:1 G2x 3 series vs 4 series on the road. The ratio was not like that with E9x and F3x. Many more coupes.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by chris719

Sales are not a good gauge. The decision to buy is based on much more than just the front of the car. For what it’s worth, I see maybe 10:1 G2x 3 series vs 4 series on the road. The ratio was not like that with E9x and F3x. Many more coupes.

Wait, sales are not a good gauge for what people like? What better gauge is there? I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by Squidget

Wait, sales are not a good gauge for what people like? What better gauge is there? I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.

It means that the car is so good that people are willing to overlook the look of the car. Which they are not willing to do for the regular 4 series. I’ve asked like 15+ non car people and no one likes the grille. At best I get indifferent. Anyway I don’t mean to make this about G80/2 but saying that people like the styling because it sold a lot of units is total nonsense. Toyota sells a ton of ugly vehicles.