[Ilac91]

I'm contemplating on getting a new laptop but am stuck on which to choose. My biggest reason to be hesitant in choosing the Macbook is the amount of software available. Other than that I have no other problems. Today I went into my local computer store and to my surprise I saw them running the Windows XP w/SP2 on the Macbook. This changes everything because now I can run pc apps on the Macbook. As the HD is partitioned I can choose to run either the Macbook OS or the Windows XP OS upon start-up. In another words have the best of both worlds. Now we go back to my original question. What to buy? First of all I would be using the laptop for the usual internet and MS Office programs. I will also be doing some work related tasks on it as well. Other than that I would be using the laptop to do multimedia functions like Photoshop, video, music and some web design. I must add that it wouldn't be anything taxing on the system or will it be anything complex. The biggest advantage in choosing the PC laptop is that it will most likely be cheaper and I would have no immediate compatibility problems with my home PC. Although I like the idea that the Macbook runs more stable than a PC laptop. Now if money was not an issue, what would you recommend?
Please be objective and not relegate your comments to ones such as "Apple sucks." Thanks!

[nabutes]

I recently bought a macbook after my dell laptop called it quits, and I am 110% satisfied with my decision!!! I've been a mac user for a couple of years now, and quite honestly, I forsee myself staying part of the family.

If you are simply buying a laptop for basic word processing applications and internet, you can't really go wrong with buying a $600 laptop from dell. However, if cost is not an issue, I would seriously recommend the macbook because it's more of an "experience". There's nothing quite like the feeling of knowing you've wasted hours of your life tooling around with addictive programs like iPhoto, iWeb, iMovie, Garageband, and iTunes

A majority of my gradwork is research based, so I'm no stranger to powerpoint, word, and photoshop. I feel that these programs actually run better, and are easier to control, in the mac atmosphere. I really don't know how to explain it, but once you use it, you'll understand.

But before you decide to make the switch, make sure you know what you are getting yourself into. Don't be one of the people who buys a mac and bitches all day about not having the second mouse button...

[eleven24]

Across any message board on the net there are those who blindly post comments such as "Apple Sucks". For the most part, these are people who have never used a Mac, and therefore have no basis for posting their "opinion".

As mentioned above, and it's really not a cliche - once you use a Mac, you won't want any part of a Windows based machine. Yes, the machines generally cost more than a PC. That's normally the crux of the PC vs Apple argument. The difference is that the Mac comes loaded with USEFUL software, not the garbage typically packed into a PC.

Considering that you can now run Windows on your Apple computer, the barrier to switching is now virtually non existant. There is a reason so many Apple users are so passionate about their machines (like me). Buy a new MacBook and see why everyone says OSX is so far superior to WinXP. If you don't like it (which I highly doubt) you'll still have a kick-ass piece of hardware that can still run Windows.

[Chuck_IV]

Originally Posted by Ethirtynine

I also installed Windows XP so I can use two OSs at the same time.

This is why I'd choose a MAC(assuming you get an Intel Chipped one). With them enabling you to run Windows on them, you now have the best of both worlds and now aren't limited to MAC only software(or running windows software, pathetically slow, in an emulator).

[Squawks]

I've used and am quite familiar with both Mac OS X and Windows XP in PCs.

You mentioned the stability advantage of Macs and I agree - they are extremely stable...but, a PC taken good care of can be equally stable. Macs are pleasing to the eye as the interface of the OS is quite aesthetic and made simple for users.

However, there is absolutely no question in my mind that the PC reigns superior in all other aspects over the Macs because of the simple and undeniable fact that the PC/WindowsXP is a million times more complicated. The complications brings up the issues of stability, hacks, viruses, etc. but I'd give up stability and aesthetics in a heartbeat for all of those additional features. This isn't due to the fact that the Mac OS has less/inferior coding relative to Windows but instead, the Mac OS was coded in a way so as to intentionally block users from getting too advanced/technical, thus balking all access to highly technical maneuvers.

The Mac is so simple, in fact, that I learned the complete ins and outs of the entire OS in a matter of days. For Windows/PCs, on the other hand, it's endless. No matter how deep you dig, the OS is so complicated it's mind-boggling.

I believe, in your applications you mentioned, a Mac would more than suffice. Apple has software for all of your purposes - and good ones, at that. But, if in the long run you ever decide you want more advanced programs, features, or simply more programs from 3rd parties not available for the Mac OS, the PC is the only way to go.

I wouldn't pick a Mac for both worlds but rather concentrate on picking one or the other. Note that Mac running Windows isn't even a solid issue yet - who knows, there could be hordes of problems and it might not even be as fast as a Windows-dedicated laptop. Hell, even the Mac OS X has issues reverting back to Mac OS 9 back when I was using multiple OS's.

[SpanX]

Ive been using my powerbook for over a year now and absolutely love it - and have yet to find a software shortgage problem for what I do which is Mortgages/Land Investing. So im not one to ask about lack of software - but I had a toshiba before, solid pc laptop, and the powerbook blows it out of the water. I'm pretty familiar with computers too, more than just a surface user, and I will never go back to a pc.

Originally Posted by Ethirtynine

I've been using a PowerBook for the past two months and I love it. I also installed Windows XP so I can use two OSs at the same time. Once you go Mac, you can't go back.

Ethirtynine, how did you get xp set up on your powerbook....ive never checked into that and didnt even think it was possible on a powerbook, but Im still trying to get familiar with Mac/OS X so help me out - how do i get XP on my powerbook....?

[vladinecko]

now that you can run Windows on them too, you can even use them for gaming with full performance you'd expect from any other PC laptop.

i recommend reading this article to give you an idea how it compares to other PC laptops.

Macbook Pro, all the way!

[Squawks]

Really good info - first time I saw such stats.

They show that Macbooks running off of Mac OS suck compared to Windows XP - that say anything? It's hilarious how Macbooks running off of Windows XP kills the Mac OS in nearly every aspect. So why not just go with a Windows laptop to begin with - I would.

I like Macbooks and their design/feel/looks but there are some pretty strong rivals (which don't include Acer and most of HP's lines of laptops) which give Macbooks a run for their money.

EDIT: Oh, vlad - the Macbook running off of Windows XP only performed 66% as good as the Acer laptop.

[Hunter399]

I love my macbook and will NEVER buy a windows Laptop or Desktop again!

[vladinecko]

Originally Posted by Squawks

Really good info - first time I saw such stats.

They show that Macbooks running off of Mac OS suck compared to Windows XP - that say anything? It's hilarious how Macbooks running off of Windows XP kills the Mac OS in nearly every aspect. So why not just go with a Windows laptop to begin with - I would.

I like Macbooks and their design/feel/looks but there are some pretty strong rivals (which don't include Acer and most of HP's lines of laptops) which give Macbooks a run for their money.

EDIT: Oh, vlad - the Macbook running off of Windows XP only performed 66% as good as the Acer laptop.

you can't just bluntly say it performs only 66% as good as the Acer because that is simply not true. there are different aspects they were benchmarking those laptops on and you can clearly see that the Macbook is leading almost all of them. so i completely disagree.

now, when talking about the fact that most apps run faster on Windows than they do under Mac OS X you're forgetting the fact that they run much slower on OS X because they're emulated. give it a year or so and you'll see everything running a lot faster on OS X. it's like, if MS decided to port Windows to PowerPC platform. of course no applications would run at native speed from the beginning because they wouldn't be simply compiled for that particular hardware.

there are just too many factors that you need to look at when comparing performance. the beauty of Windows running on Intel Macs right now is that you can and are not limited to run applications in full speed, if you need to, until the transition of all OS X apps to Intel platform is complete. I would never use Windows as my primary OS. why is a completely different issue...

[Chuck_IV]

Originally Posted by Ethirtynine

Here is a screenshot of both OSs. I can minimize Windows XP as if it was just a regular program.

Isn't that the emulator tho. I thought the new setup that they are beta testing was a dual booter, which allowed you to boot into either MAC OS or Windows and be running whichever one as the base operating system.

[eleven24]

Originally Posted by Squawks

The Mac is so simple, in fact, that I learned the complete ins and outs of the entire OS in a matter of days. For Windows/PCs, on the other hand, it's endless. No matter how deep you dig, the OS is so complicated it's mind-boggling.

Ahhh, the beauty of a Mac. For the average user all of the technical garbage is hidden. My guess is that you zipped through the System Preferences in a matter of days and deemed yourself 100% competent with Mac OSX. I'm guessing you also poked around in Terminal, or created some AppleScript too.

On the surface OSX is very simple. It was designed that way. There is no need for the casual user to fiddle with all of the setting that they know nothing about. BUT if you want to, it's all possible through Terminal... or by logging on as root.

If one has the knowledge, then they know how to get into the nuts and bolts of the Mac OS. Windows, on the other hand, allows anybody to poke around with system critical settings. As an IT admin, I certainly know how users wreak havoc on their machines by fooling around with settings they know nothing about.

[Squawks]

Hey, vlad - you spoke of gaming purposes so I just referred to the benchmarks of Doom III from that same article you linked - which shows that the Macbook only performed 66% of what Acer's laptop performed.

eleven24 - are you secondguessing my competency with OS X? That's absurd and why should I even try to make some kind of rebuttal to your disparaging remark? I'm not a genius and it definitely doesn't take one to master ALL of the OS X. The Terminal? Hah - Windows has MULTIPLE forms of "Terminals" for multiple purposes.

If you even try to say that the Mac OS has any sort of technical prowess over Windows in any kind of way, I simply have nothing to say to you.

Before this burns up into a tawdry Mac vs PC debate, note I never bashed on Macs - they're perfectly fine and suitable for 99.9% of the population out there. But for the highly advanced and techincal 0.1% who demand maximum features in regards to technical amentities and programs, there is simply no denying that Windows and only Windows would be the route to take in today's technology - give or take all of the hordes of hacks and virii out there.

[SpanX]

ethirtynine - you are running the emulator through virtual pc - i have that and its horribly slow - i want to run windows without emulation software - guess its time I sell the powerbook and get a macbook .....

[nabutes]

Originally Posted by Squawks

eleven24 - are you secondguessing my competency with OS X? That's absurd and why should I even try to make some kind of rebuttal to your disparaging remark? I'm not a genius and it definitely doesn't take one to master ALL of the OS X. The Terminal? Hah - Windows has MULTIPLE forms of "Terminals" for multiple purposes.

I don't think that he is secondguessing you at all. He's just saying that if you are going to make the comparison, make sure you're comparing apples to apples. The Mac OS is an entirely dumb-downed gui of unix, which purposely makes it very easy to manuever. With that being said, "mastering it" takes virtually no time. This by itself makes Windows 12872 times more complicated.

However, if you dig deeper you'll hit mother Unix (aka the terminal). Which I can tell you is 1293084192834710928735176 times more "powerful/complicated" than any Windows machine...

But, I see where you're getting at...

[eleven24]

Originally Posted by Squawks

eleven24 - are you secondguessing my competency with OS X? That's absurd and why should I even try to make some kind of rebuttal to your disparaging remark?

Second guessing? Not exactly - I was just basing it off your post that you learned the ins and outs of Mac OSX in just a few days, to which you then said Windows was vastly superior because it is so complex. OSX is designed so that anybody can learn the ins & outs in a relatively short period of time, but that doesn't make it less powerful an operating system.

If you feel my comments were disparaging, I apologize. And by all means, the 'net certainly doesn't need another Mac vs PC debate.

[Ilac91]

Thanks to all those so far that have replied to my original question. However I see that we are starting to get a little offtrack in terms of the complexity of the programing when comparing the two operating systems.

Here are a few characteristics I'm looking at:

1) battery life - the longer the better
2) size - shouldn't be bulky and weigh a ton
3) build - eg built with quality and able to withstand some rough treatment (accidental banging)
4) handle all the usuall MS Office and also multimedia functions

The Macbook that I'm considering is this one:

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPL...clm=MacBookPro

I would also be looking for a similar configuration in the PC laptop.
I'm currently considering the Dell 9400

http://www1.ca.dell.com/content/prod...n=specs#tabtop

I'm well aware I could get more machine with DELL than with Apple when comparing the amount I would be paying. However I would rather pay more for quality. I'm also aware that DELL butchers their systems and use proprietary parts even though they are from 3rd party vendors.

Other than that choices would be either an HP or a Toshiba.

I'm planning to keep this laptop for at least 3 yrs and so the technology must last and ***IMPORTANT*** be compatible with MSFT's new Vista OS. I'm hoping that this will be the case with Apple. Anyone know?

Any other suggestions would be great!

[Ilac91]

This is the one im considering.

[Ilac91]

Whoops...MacBook 1.83GHz

[Squawks]

Other great vendors for PC laptops include Sony - although they are pricier than others but their quality is quite notorious (in terms of both quality and durability).

I've been using various PC laptops for various years now and in my opinion, the most crucial feature in my list of priorities is the size/weight of the laptop assuming all other features such as battery life, performance specs, etc. are not overly disparate. For example I'd give up 25% battery life for cutting the laptop's closed size and weight 25%. Trust me on this - but life is 10X more easier with laptop as 0.75 inches thick and the size of a notebook compared to a 1.5" laptop with a 15" screen (on top of the fact that you probably would be taking your more portable/compact laptop around with you more often whether that would be from room-to-room or outdoors).

[docbolo]

Mac : Computers :: BMW : Cars :: Rolex : Watches

[Armen52]

Originally Posted by Squawks

If you even try to say that the Mac OS has any sort of technical prowess over Windows in any kind of way, I simply have nothing to say to you.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA ROTFLMFAO

Squawks, I don't know who you are or what your background is, but with this comment you come off as some Internet script kiddie more than an IT or computer professional.

Mac OS X is built on the foundations of FreeBSD, which is a Unix-like operating system. Have you heard of Unix or Linux?

If the game is sheer technical complexity, you cannot win that argument, since that is a silly one to begin with. Just because something is complex to use does not make it technically superior in any way.

If technical superiority is at question, well, all you need to know is that the majority of the world's most advanced computer systems, supercomputers, servers, etc. do not run Windows. They are usually running Unix or some variant such as Linux, FreeBSD, Solaris, Mac OS X, etc.

To be honest with you, I think I held a similar opinion as yours a long time ago. But that was when I was an avid and expert Windows user and ignorant about what was possible with Mac OS X. This leads me to believe that maybe you are also in this situation now.

My only request is that you not misrepresent yourself by claiming to know all that OS X is capable of, and declaring it inferior to Windows. The rest of this discussion of OS X vs Windows technical superiority is unrelated to this thread. I will leave it for another time and place.


To the original poster, my recommendation is that you purchase according to your needs and budget. Also, go spend some time playing with a MacBook Pro at an Apple Store near you. And if you think you will not be taxing the system much (although you claim to be doing web design, photo and video editing which can be pretty taxing), then maybe you should wait a month for the Intel-based iBook replacement which should be much much cheaper than the MacBook Pros available now.

Lastly, I recently sold my PowerBook G4 of two years and replaced it with a MacBook Pro 2GHz and I am very pleased with it. I'm happy to answer any specific questions you have. However, I have not yet installed Windows dual-boot.