[Ronin76]

OK guys, I am needing some help on suspension. I was wanting to know, for those who will be lowering their cars, how will you do it and why did you make that choice? What are the pros and cons of each?

[Squidget]

It's a complex topic, so this is going to be a simplistic answer.

Just straight lowered springs commit you to one height, I do not recommend. They do improve the look and firm up handling.

HAS improve the look and street driving and are adjustable unlike springs. They are worth the extra cost over non-adjustable springs, IMO of course.

Good coilovers can be expensive AF but can really upgrade the handling of the car, and let you tune things like rebound rate. They make sense if you are going to track your car and drive at an expert level. (While cheap non-adustable coilovers exist, I have no idea why you'd ever buy them.)

For most people, who just want to lower their car and get mild handling improvement, HAS makes the most sense for cost. For experts, there are coilovers.

[Squidget]

https://www.autoworks.com.au/blog/29...-struts-shocks

[M_Power Rob]

Originally Posted by Squidget

It's a complex topic, so this is going to be a simplistic answer.

Just straight lowered springs commit you to one height, I do not recommend. They do improve the look and firm up handling.

HAS improve the look and street driving and are adjustable unlike springs. They are worth the extra cost over non-adjustable springs, IMO of course.

Good coilovers can be expensive AF but can really upgrade the handling of the car, and let you tune things like rebound rate. They make sense if you are going to track your car and drive at an expert level. (While cheap non-adustable coilovers exist, I have no idea why you'd ever buy them.)

For most people, who just want to lower their car and get mild handling improvement, HAS makes the most sense for cost. For experts, there are coilovers.

For those looking to mildly lower and improve driving/handling, especially on the streets, lowering springs makes the most sense and is most economical.

[Ronin76]

Originally Posted by Squidget

It's a complex topic, so this is going to be a simplistic answer.

Just straight lowered springs commit you to one height, I do not recommend. They do improve the look and firm up handling.

HAS improve the look and street driving and are adjustable unlike springs. They are worth the extra cost over non-adjustable springs, IMO of course.

Good coilovers can be expensive AF but can really upgrade the handling of the car, and let you tune things like rebound rate. They make sense if you are going to track your car and drive at an expert level. (While cheap non-adustable coilovers exist, I have no idea why you'd ever buy them.)

For most people, who just want to lower their car and get mild handling improvement, HAS makes the most sense for cost. For experts, there are coilovers.

I tend to agree with you on this. Coilovers are really expensive and from what I have heard and read, simple lowering springs, though the most affordable options, have the potential to wear out your stock dampers faster due to a shorter spring with higher spring rate. I think a HAS kit is a good middle ground. I was just wanting to see what others thoughts were on the topic as I am still learning and I could definitely be wrong in my research.

[M_Power Rob]

Originally Posted by Ronin76

I tend to agree with you on this. Coilovers are really expensive and from what I have heard and read, simple lowering springs, though the most affordable options, have the potential to wear out your stock dampers faster due to a shorter spring with higher spring rate. I think a HAS kit is a good middle ground. I was just wanting to see what others thoughts were on the topic as I am still learning and I could definitely be wrong in my research.

Granted, any part can fail for any reason but this is a true M suspension to begin with. The H&R Sport Springs should not cause any issues.

Sure, you can go with H&R adjustable or coils, KW coils or a similar high performance setup but your rude will be quite stiff and a little much if looking for daily driving ot performance on the street. If its a ture, all out track car, go for the gusto.

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by Ronin76

I tend to agree with you on this. Coilovers are really expensive and from what I have heard and read, simple lowering springs, though the most affordable options, have the potential to wear out your stock dampers faster due to a shorter spring with higher spring rate. I think a HAS kit is a good middle ground. I was just wanting to see what others thoughts were on the topic as I am still learning and I could definitely be wrong in my research.

My auto tech buddies cautioned me against installing just lowering springs. The springs are stiffer because they have less height/travel to react to/slow compression force. They do this but rebound is stronger and can overwhelm the stock dampeners. And along with this wear them out sooner.

I have no plans to modify my car's suspension but if I did I'd search out a set of lowering springs and shocks (struts) designed to work with the springs.

[ourlee]

Originally Posted by Squidget

It's a complex topic, so this is going to be a simplistic answer.

Just straight lowered springs commit you to one height, I do not recommend. They do improve the look and firm up handling.

HAS improve the look and street driving and are adjustable unlike springs. They are worth the extra cost over non-adjustable springs, IMO of course.

Good coilovers can be expensive AF but can really upgrade the handling of the car, and let you tune things like rebound rate. They make sense if you are going to track your car and drive at an expert level. (While cheap non-adustable coilovers exist, I have no idea why you'd ever buy them.)

For most people, who just want to lower their car and get mild handling improvement, HAS makes the most sense for cost. For experts, there are coilovers.

Can someone throw up some prices for each option?
Can you all post up what brands you dig the most?

[Ronin76]

Originally Posted by ourlee

Can someone throw up some prices for each option?

Can you all post up what brands you dig the most?

Lowering Springs for an M4 - $378

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-h-and-r-...et/28616-4~hr/

KW Height Adjustable Lowering Springs - $1,134

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-kw-suspe...p/253200eb~kw/

KW Coilover V3 Kit - $3,594

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-kw-suspe...t/352200eq~kw/

Please note that these prices are for the M4. The G87 options were rather linited. I just ised these just for illustrative purposes only.

[SebG87]

Originally Posted by Ronin76

OK guys, I am needing some help on suspension. I was wanting to know, for those who will be lowering their cars, how will you do it and why did you make that choice? What are the pros and cons of each?

Hi!

I was also checking some options and I finally will go for springs in first place and then, eventually, coilovers.

Springs

PROs: cheapest option (about 350€ if you go for Eibach or HR w/o labour), fixes the look, ride quality is similar to stock. CONs: no adjustment

HAS

PROs: height adjustment to get the perfect fitment. CONs: price (you range from 800€ KW or HR to 1900€ M Performance w/o labour)

Coilovers
PROs: Taylor made option, potentially perfect for road and track, really changes the dynamics of the vehicle.
CONs: price (You go from 3.000€ of the KW V3 or Bilstein to above 8k€ w/o labour which will be more expensive than the other option). But to be honest, instead of the HAS I would go the extra mile and do the coilovers.

Just my view though, hope it helps 😁

[M_Power Rob]

Originally Posted by Ronin76

Can you all post up what brands you dig the most?

Lowering Springs for an M4 - $378

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-h-and-r-...et/28616-4~hr/

KW Height Adjustable Lowering Springs - $1,134

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-kw-suspe...p/253200eb~kw/

KW Coilover V3 Kit - $3,594

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-kw-suspe...t/352200eq~kw/

Please note that these prices are for the M4. The G87 options were rather linited. I just ised these just for illustrative purposes only.

A lot of these are still in different stages of R&D, final design and production for the G87 M2. Some may also ve available to their "authorized" vendors/installers.

For those who say the HAS is better than lowering springs, other than the ability to adjust the height, please explain what you feel the difference is (I have the H&R adjustable on my B9 S5 since January 2018 (car purchased in December 2017) and have never adjusted them from the initial setting we used when installed...only went with them as that was the only spring available for the car at the time).

If going with companies such as H&R or KW, they do R&D on each specific car to produce a product that works properly for each specific model car, they are not just a generic made spring vased on what is posted in a car's user manual or manufacturer's OEM part spec sheet.

I have had cars with ARK DTP and KW Var 2 coils on street cars (not for track use) and they are very stiff and for a car that doesn't or wont see the track, they are a bit uncomfortable and unforgiving in the ride feel.

Just providing my 2 pennies, not stating you have to or should go in any direction other than what you, the owner and user, feel is right and best for you.

[Ronin76]

Originally Posted by M_Power Rob

A lot of these are still in different stages of R&D, final design and production for the G87 M2. Some may also ve available to their "authorized" vendors/installers.

For those who say the HAS is better than lowering springs, other than the ability to adjust the height, please explain what you feel the difference is (I have the H&R adjustable on my B9 S5 since January 2018 (car purchased in December 2017) and have never adjusted them from the initial setting we used when installed...only went with them as that was the only spring available for the car at the time).

If going with companies such as H&R or KW, they do R&D on each specific car to produce a product that works properly for each specific model car, they are not just a generic made spring vased on what is posted in a car's user manual or manufacturer's OEM part spec sheet.

I have had cars with ARK DTP and KW Var 2 coils on street cars (not for track use) and they are very stiff and for a car that doesn't or wont see the track, they are a bit uncomfortable and unforgiving in the ride feel.

Just providing my 2 pennies, not stating you have to or should go in any direction other than what you, the owner and user, feel is right and best for you.

You make a good point here. Once you have selected the hight that is right for you when using a HAS kit, how does it differ from regular lowering springs? My initial response would be it doesn't? If that is the case, then is there a need to spend 2 to 3 times more for the ability to change the height? I guess not?

[Axylus]

I see there are some cons to installing HAS in terms of wearing out the dampers. Are there any cons to installing spacers?

[Ronin76]

Originally Posted by Axylus

I see there are some cons to installing HAS in terms of wearing out the dampers. Are there any cons to installing spacers?

Good question, like everything else when it comes to modding, there are always going to be some kind of risk or con. I think with spacers, you are basically pushing your wheels further out from where they were meant to be. Doing this causes some pressure/leverage on the wheel bearings. The larger the spacers equates to larger pressure/leverage on the bearings which are not made to take leverage forces like that and can therefore wear faster, increasing rolling resistance and power loss of the car.

How much wear is anyone's guess. Many people use them and some who would prefer not to, still use them. I guess if they are not too large they would be OK. I believe if you use hub centric spacers are pretty good. The right way to have your wheels pushed further out would be to get wheels that have an offset that accomplishes this without spacers. The downside of that...buying new wheels LOL.

There is always a catch in everything you do. It is just a matter how much risk or wear and tear you are willing to take. Many people use lowering springs and spacers and are happy with them so I do not think they are bad. All personal preference.

[Tag]

Before I get into the pros and cons I need to point out that quality products are essential when modifying your suspension. You want ones from reputable manufacturers that are specifically designed for your car and you want ones with spring rates that are matched to the OEM dampers if using lowering springs or a HAS kit. If you buy something that isn't from a reputable brand and hasn't had the proper R&D for the G87 and have clunking noises, blown out struts/shocks, etc. that's on you! I'm also not going to get into the cost of installing each type, they all involve more or less the same amount of work so the cost delta between installing each type isn't that big. Now that that's out of the way let's get to work!

Lowering Springs

• Pros:
  • Inexpensive
  • Lets you retain adaptive suspension

• Cons:
  • Shorter springs sitting on the stock perch height don't allow for full suspension travel and are more prone to bottoming out
  • Spring rates are stiffer than stock
  • Typically don't come with shorter bump stops
  • No height adjustability

HAS Kits
*Note: If anyone wants a detailed explanation of how HAS kits work you can checkout this writeup I posted here.

• Pros:
  • Height adjustable
  • Lets you retain adaptive suspension
  • Allows for full suspension travel
  • Most quality HAS kits come with shorter bump stops
  • If you only want to use OEM components BMW makes an M Performance HAS kit which is also covered under warranty

• Cons
  • More expensive than lowering springs

Coilovers

• Pros:
  • Height adjustable
  • Coilovers range from ones with static dampers all the way to dampers that allow for full manual adjustability of compression and rebound
  • When worn out most quality coilovers can be rebuilt and reused
  • Highly customizable; can accommodate springs form different manufactures and allow the use of linear and/or progressive springs
  • Great for those that track their cars and need tons of adjustability to dial it in

• Cons
  • Expensive
  • Does not let you retain adaptive suspension (although there are some manufactures that incorporate their own proprietary adaptive suspension into their coilover systems that plug into the stock system but they are limited and costly)

[Ronin76]

Originally Posted by Tag

Before I get into the pros and cons I need to point out that quality products are essential when modifying your suspension. You want ones from reputable manufacturers that are specifically designed for your car and you want ones with spring rates that are matched to the OEM dampers if using lowering springs or a HAS kit. If you buy something that isn't from a reputable brand and hasn't had the proper R&D for the G87 and have clunking noises, blown out struts/shocks, etc. that's on you! I'm also not going to get into the cost of installing each type, they all involve more or less the same amount of work so the cost delta between installing each type isn't that big. Now that that's out of the way let's get to work!

Lowering Springs

• Pros:
  • Inexpensive
  • Lets you retain adaptive suspension

• Cons:
  • Shorter springs sitting on the stock perch height don't allow for full suspension travel and are more prone to bottoming out
  • Spring rates are stiffer than stock
  • Typically don't come with shorter bump stops
  • No height adjustability

HAS Kits
*Note: If anyone wants a detailed explanation of how HAS kits work you can checkout this writeup I posted here.

• Pros:
  • Height adjustable
  • Lets you retain adaptive suspension
  • Allows for full suspension travel
  • Most quality HAS kits come with shorter bump stops
  • If you only want to use OEM components BMW makes an M Performance HAS kit which is also covered under warranty

• Cons
  • More expensive than lowering springs

Coilovers

• Pros:
  • Height adjustable
  • Coilovers range from ones with static dampers all the way to dampers that allow for full manual adjustability of compression and rebound
  • When worn out most quality coilovers can be rebuilt and reused
  • Highly customizable; can accommodate springs form different manufactures and allow the use of linear and/or progressive springs
  • Great for those that track their cars and need tons of adjustability to dial it in

• Cons
  • Expensive
  • Does not let you retain adaptive suspension (although there are some manufactures that incorporate their own proprietary adaptive suspension into their coilover systems that plug into the stock system but they are limited and costly)

Thank you my good man!

[Humdizzle]

best to pair the right spring with the right shock. lowering springs are cheaper and look better than oem, but your ride quality/handling will be better when its paired with the right shock. Your oem shocks will wear out faster with a lowering spring.

another thing to consider is that if you're paying a shop do to lowering springs, they have to pull the shocks out anyway

[M_Power Rob]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

best to pair the right spring with the right shock. lowering springs are cheaper and look better than oem, but your ride quality/handling will be better when its paired with the right shock. Your oem shocks will wear out faster with a lowering spring.

another thing to consider is that if you're paying a shop do to lowering springs, they have to pull the shocks out anyway

You do realize H&R and KW, for example, do R&D with the actual car to ensure their springs ARE matched with the car's OEM components.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by Ronin76

My initial response would be it doesn't? If that is the case, then is there a need to spend 2 to 3 times more for the ability to change the height? I guess not?

Some people change ride height based on situation. If you are going on a road trip on crappy roads, or loaning your car to a family member, maybe you want to dial a couple cm of ride height back in. Heck, maybe you hurt your back and are really regretting the current ride stiffness.

Or maybe you are worried you'll get the ride height wrong if you buy springs. HAS lets you try different heights until you find your perfect setup.

[Ronin76]

Originally Posted by Squidget

Some people change ride height based on situation. If you are going on a road trip on crappy roads, or loaning your car to a family member, maybe you want to dial a couple cm of ride height back in. Heck, maybe you hurt your back and are really regretting the current ride stiffness.

Or maybe you are worried you'll get the ride height wrong if you buy springs. HAS lets you try different heights until you find your perfect setup.

This is true. All good points.

[Squidget]

To be clear, I don't have a strong opinion. Everyone's circumstances are different, every option is right for someone.

I do however, totally agree with Rob that no matter what option you choose, don't cheap out. Get a well-engineered option from a reputable vendor.

[Humdizzle]

Originally Posted by M_Power Rob

You do realize H&R and KW, for example, do R&D with the actual car to ensure their springs ARE matched with the car's OEM components.

yes. but they can't change physics. BMW designed this spring and shock combo together. if you lower the car down an inch your shock is now one inch more compressed. your suspension is going to be stiffer in that spot and not be able to handle smaller road bumps as well. it was not tuned to stay in that compressed state 24/7.

you may have a slight improvement in lap time. but you can have that and ride comfort with a proper coil over setup.