05-12-2023, 03:42 PM | #1 |
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Not really a review but an instagram caption. A bit disappointing as he’s probably my favorite car journalist. Interesting nonetheless.
“Verdict G87 M2: No longer a lunatic on a leash. Every time a new M product comes out, we shit on it. That’s because BMW constantly changes its own recipe: 1MCoupe was a homicidal maniac at all times; an absolute heartthrob ❤️ First M2 was a little less unhinged, a little less personality. I liked all variants until I slid each around for filming. Then, I LOVED them. Best at 11/10ths; still fun in normal driving. New M2 accelerates the maturing: WAY more buttoned-down. Likely faster on road and track. Unflappable chassis. Puts power down commendably. But no longer stupid-fun in normal driving. It feels like a shrunken M4 rather than its own thing. And vs M4, you get no more fun in exchange for the way-too-cramped back seats (I can’t sit upright: Pic 10) and exhausting, sand-in-the-dampers ride. I’m thrilled that a 6MT RWD coupe exists, but M2 is a luxury car pretending to be a sports coupe. It’s just too isolated. 108-mph 3rd gear means you don’t shift that much anyway. And as before, S58+MT=lag you don’t notice with the short-geared 8AT. The whole car seems designed by not-car-people, from the dangerously complicated UX (home screen has 4.2 million tiny icons) to the Marketing gauge cluster (why is gear indicator 2x the size of speedo? I don’t need to be told what gear I’m in, I put it there!) to the Scrotum-Rest carbon seats (no driver needs support between their legs.) Gimmick über Funktion! I’m also concerned about the horizontal oil cooler right at the part of the car you’ll slam into a parking curb (Pic 9) On paper, it’s everything an enthusiast wants: ludicrous grip, bolstery seats, massive firepower, immediate brakes, precise steering, well-controlled body, 2-door shape. In reality, it reveals itself as too distant, too removed, and working too hard to cover its egregious 3800-lb curb weight. I can’t imagine spending $75k on this (MSRP) when I could buy a loaded BRZ *and* a loaded GR86 and have $11k left over for tires, brakes, and wrinkle cream from all my smiling. This might be “better,” as the Germans would insist, but the last M2 was more fun.” |
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05-12-2023, 03:46 PM | #2 |
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He lives in a narrow operational window. He should just drive Caterhams and move on and stop reviewing.
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05-12-2023, 03:52 PM | #3 | |
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It's better that the car is more tame and capable than the last, even if if professional car reviewers don't prefer them, they better suit the average driver (which we are). |
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05-12-2023, 04:01 PM | #4 |
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You know, If folks want a "lunatic on a leash", just put the rear tires on the front, and the front on the rear.
Then get Earl Scheib to do the alignment. There ya have it: A car that begs to not go straight and can't handle the power. Everyone is happy now! |
05-12-2023, 04:05 PM | #5 |
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here is his current garage: https://www.hagerty.com/drivers-club...e/jasoncammisa
makes sense why he doesn't like the M2. odd though because he seemed to really like the G80. but maybe its because he viewed it more as a 'agile M5'.
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05-12-2023, 06:23 PM | #6 |
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The G87 will apply more g-force to your body on practically every axis than the last car, and will still step out on you if you turn off all the traction and stability software. When you're driving normally, the car is comfortable and safe. For anyone looking for a performance car, the car offers a fantastic ownership experience and is objectively excellent.
I would absolutely rather have one G87 than a fleet of GR86s. |
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05-12-2023, 07:02 PM | #7 |
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05-12-2023, 07:15 PM | #8 | |
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05-12-2023, 07:49 PM | #9 | |
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I like Jason and enjoy the Hagerty videos with him, but I'm interested to see how their M2 review video turns out given his comments here vs. the review from last month. I actually find a lot of positives in what he's saying for what I'm looking for in a car, but the part about the BRZ/GR86 is plain silly and disconnected from reality.
https://www.hagerty.com/media/new-ca...rivers-choice/ Quote:
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05-12-2023, 08:10 PM | #10 |
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Cammisa is not nearly as annoying in print as hearing his voice in videos (which I refuse to watch/listen to).
He can keep his BRZ and GR86, I'll take a lightly used G87 in a handful of years when I'm ready to upgrade. |
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05-13-2023, 07:19 AM | #12 |
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+100
Lots of these guys started out with a GoPro, and a few years later are all of a sudden: "Professional Car reviewers" Some I even like, like that fat guy ("Matt something-or-other") who started reviewing for R&T. Turns out he's just a trust-fund kid who had a youtube channel. He has zero experience beyond what we all have here, and maybe less in many cases. But here is what kills me: What make him understand cars better than someone like Justin Bell?? (the son of the Legend, Derek Bell) I know justin, and besides campaigning & winning w/ an Oreca Viper at Lemans, he has an insight into the engineering/car set-up that folks who've never run a pro team will ever experience. Yet, he's doing Dodge commercials and has a humble Youtube channel. The problem is that these larger online media companies want the younger buyer that digs snarky Instagram reviews. And they all seem to be just a little too much like the Drift-crowd/ Fast&Furious follower for me. |
05-13-2023, 07:59 AM | #13 |
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To be fair, I called them "professionals" in reference to people who exclusively review cars. Not people who produce videos and scripts. If someone's career is car reviews/automative journalism and they earn money doing it, technically their "profession"is professional.
It's a hard line to draw these days between seemingly affable fruitcakes on YouTube who then criticize the hell out of stuff and those who do it because just they just like to drive cars. The problem with doing anything a lot is that you become critical. And a lot of these folks have just lost their way. I consider Jason a professional, despite disagreeing with his analysis. |
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05-13-2023, 09:13 AM | #14 | |
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With that said, race car drivers aren't necessarily good reviewers either. I think you really need someone with a good balance of technical, engineering, business understanding, and in the case of street cars, an understanding of what makes a good performance car. I read a lot of reviewers who tend to use a race car as a benchmark when those vehicles are terrible consumer sports cars. A car that would excite someone like Max Verstappen (supposition of course), probably isn't a car the masses would like. Is there a cross-section, probably, but he will probably want a more extreme car than the typical enthusiast will want to live with day to day. |
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05-14-2023, 08:18 AM | #15 | |
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05-14-2023, 10:39 AM | #16 |
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You've previously mentioned that the MT didn't have the advertised torque below ~3.5K. If you could do it again, would you have gotten the AT instead?
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05-14-2023, 02:06 PM | #17 | |
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05-14-2023, 02:25 PM | #18 |
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Turn off DSC fully
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DSC, you say? Never heard of it
https://youtube.com/@tractioncontroldelete |
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05-14-2023, 04:28 PM | #19 | |
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Ironically, what I wanted in the G82, a more stable, sharper M4 is perfect for a track car, but the opposite is true for the G87. I kind of want it to be a little rougher around the edges. The difference in character between the M4 and the M2 is what appeals to me, but if what Cammisa is saying about the G87 is true, that the M2 is just a shrunken M4, it wasn't what I wanted to hear. I love the M4. Most capable M3/4 ever made (come at me!). But the M2 should be its own thing. I'm hoping it is when I get to drive one!
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05-14-2023, 04:32 PM | #20 | |
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That’s what Cammisa and TH are saying as well but you’ll be chastised around these parts for feeling that way. Objectively my G80 drives better than my F87C did but honestly the F87C was more fun. I never felt safe in it and that was charming. |
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05-14-2023, 04:39 PM | #21 |
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I like Jason, he likes to keep things on the lighter side
He’s a pro at what he does, and has a great sense of humor and he’s consistent, so I have no issue with him
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05-14-2023, 05:17 PM | #22 | |
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I think the G8x/G87 family is obviously not intended to be quite as hoonable, but it could be modded in that direction. I fully expect we'll see examples in the future. 1. Most importantly, it is RWD, and still has sufficient torque to break the tires away. (For the moment, put aside the problem of the MT's tall first gear and torque limiting.) We'll need to temper expectations because the S58 is never gonna act like the B58 at low revs, tho. 2. It is running grippy 285s on the back, you can use "worse" tires on the rear. 3. The obvious changes to the rear suspension, depending on your tolerance for risk. 4. BMW allows you to turn the nannies all the way off. The G87 is never going to be an 86 or miata, and definitely not a rally car. We can only ask so much from a daily driver BMW 4 seater. But I think it can definitely be made more lively. There likely won't be a G87C, but it would be hilarious if they made one and the only difference was making it a hooning machine. Short 1st gear, looser rear springs, narrower rear tires, boost threshold pulled down to 2K. That would be nuts. Never gonna happen, OFC. |
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