[Chris13002]

I know this is all over the internet, but curious what you change your oil at. BMW/Service manual says 10k miles, a quick google recommends 5k for harder driving. I decided to stick to 7500 intervals as I don't drive my car too hard.
I know this isn't the same car or engine...

[Chris13002]

I went to the dealer with the odometer at 8600 miles (1200 after break-in) so was at ~7400-7500 mile interval for an oil change and the dealer said they would have to charge me since I was 3000 miles early (or due in April 2024). They would charge me $180-200 US dollars and the advisor recommended to save the money and bring it back when the car tells me to so I agreed to wait. Also, if I got the oil change done now at 8600 miles, they could "not" reset the maintenance light and it would continue to be on my dash from 10k until my next planned 16k miles (7500 interval original plan). This way the next oil change would be free, but if they reset the maintenance light, I'd have to wait for the next 10k interval for it to be free again. What's everyone else's experience with this? I was trying to be proactive by getting it done a little early and done correctly at BMW and not take it to some random Jiffy Lube.

Since BMW only does the free oil changes every 10k miles, I'll probably just pay for the oil changes every 5k miles in-between those.

[M_Power Rob]

Yeah, they are pretty strict about their 10k mile olans for the free changes. I would NEVER wait anywhere near that long between changes.

Every 3,000 - 3,500 miles for me.

[JABCAT]

I've followed the manufacturer's recommended schedule in all 45 of my vehicles over the years and the only engine issue I ever had was with my '99 WS6 Trans Am with the LS1 that had a well-known oil consumption issue. Because I am not an engineer nor engine designer, I'll follow the schedule as outlined in my owner's manual.

[WhiteRqbbit]

Modern machining and oils - I'll do it every 10k when the car tells me. If I were tracking the car, I would change the oil before and after said track day.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by WhiteRqbbit

Modern machining and oils - I'll do it every 10k when the car tells me. If I were tracking the car, I would change the oil before and after said track day.

Before and after every track day is excessive for a synthetic oil. The S58 doesn't get particularly hot when used to it's full potential, so the oil will stay in grade quite well. I would more use the tyre wear as an indicator of load on the car and change the oil with track use at the same rate as a set of tyres. For me that is about every 1500km of track use or 10 times the normal road use interval.

[kyrix1st]

Strictly speaking, it's not the miles but the engine's running hours that deteriorates oil. Manufacturers use yearly/mileage based recommendations because not many users will track their engine's running hours.

I keep it to 100 engine running hours for moderate track use, and once a year/2,000-3,000 miles for the street.

[keonigt]

Originally Posted by M_Power Rob

Yeah, they are pretty strict about their 10k mile olans for the free changes. I would NEVER wait anywhere near that long between changes.

Every 3,000 - 3,500 miles for me.

If you happen to go to the dealer for service before the 10k mark, you would just pay the cost for the oil change, correct?

And then the service at 10k would be free and covered?

[keonigt]

Originally Posted by M_Power Rob

Yeah, they are pretty strict about their 10k mile olans for the free changes. I would NEVER wait anywhere near that long between changes.

Every 3,000 - 3,500 miles for me.

So if they can only change every 10k miles. Is it fine to change oil with them at 5k miles and pay. And then come back to a bmw dealership at 10k to get the free Oil change?

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by keonigt

If you happen to go to the dealer for service before the 10k mark, you would just pay the cost for the oil change, correct?

And then the service at 10k would be free and covered?

Yes.

My SOP is to get the new engine oil/filter service done early -- and on my dime -- once or twice then have the car in for its scheduled service or when the CBS system says the engine oil is due to be changed.

For the early services I ask that the CBS system *not* be reset. Thus I am assured of getting the CBS service done at no cost when it is time to be done.

For my M2 I had the oil/filter service done at ~600 miles then had it in for the free break in service at 1200 miles (1204 to be exact). Then had the oil/filter service done at 5K miles. Next service will probably be when the CBS system says service is due.

For my 230i xDrive had the oil/filter service done at ~600 miles. Will probably have the oil/filter service done at around 1500 miles then again at 5K miles.

[c1pher]

Synthetic oil just doesn’t lose its viscosity or protective properties like fossil oil did. The only reason you change the oil at 1200 miles is due to running the motor in and not due to the oil. After that, 10,000 miles is well below how long the oil could safely last in your engine with exception of using it for track or Uber service.

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by c1pher

Synthetic oil just doesn’t lose its viscosity or protective properties like fossil oil did. The only reason you change the oil at 1200 miles is due to running the motor in and not due to the oil. After that, 10,000 miles is well below how long the oil could safely last in your engine with exception of using it for track or Uber service.

Synthetic oil has its additive package depleted over time.

How long this takes, how many miles, depends.

Also I believe the viscosity index deteriorates. As does the TBN.

One can only know by an oil analysis and comparing the numbers against those of the oil specifications provided by the oil maker to what extent the synthetic oil has experienced a fall off.

While synthetic oil is very good it has a tough job. Modern engines produce more HP, are more highly stressed, run hotter (by design), and studies have found congestion has resulted in an increase in how much idle time engines experience.

(For years I ran a trip/data logger in my cars. Among other things it logged idle time. In spite of my being aware of idle time and seeking to -- within reason -- avoid it I was quite surprised at how much idle time the engine experienced even on long trips. Also, since I was responsible for most of the software in this device I fielded some support calls. In particular some from fleet owners who questioned the high idle time numbers. The idle time was correct. The fleet owners were just finally aware of how much idle time their fleet vehicles were experiencing.)

Based on the results of an oil analysis some years ago I decided on a 5K mile oil change interval given my usage.

Sure some owners could drive more miles. My experience in changing the oil in a number of my cars over the years is at 5K miles of almost all highway miles the oil looks to be in quite good shape. Clearly the oil could remain in service with plenty of margin for maybe 10K miles.

But with few exceptions I no longer drive 5K miles all on the freeway. My usage is a mix of surface street driving with some freeway driving, but the mix is probably 85% surface street with 15% freeway. So after 5K miles of this usage the oil gets changed.

[keonigt]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

Yes.

My SOP is to get the new engine oil/filter service done early -- and on my dime -- once or twice then have the car in for its scheduled service or when the CBS system says the engine oil is due to be changed.

For the early services I ask that the CBS system *not* be reset. Thus I am assured of getting the CBS service done at no cost when it is time to be done.

For my M2 I had the oil/filter service done at ~600 miles then had it in for the free break in service at 1200 miles (1204 to be exact). Then had the oil/filter service done at 5K miles. Next service will probably be when the CBS system says service is due.

For my 230i xDrive had the oil/filter service done at ~600 miles. Will probably have the oil/filter service done at around 1500 miles then again at 5K miles.

Thank you for the reply!

Do you happen to know if BMW service advisors usually go off of the CBS system for the free 10k oil changes? Or I can just go in at the 10k intervals and get the free oil change service?

Just curious if it is ok to reset the CBS when doing a DIY oil change.

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by keonigt

Thank you for the reply!

Do you happen to know if BMW service advisors usually go off of the CBS system for the free 10k oil changes? Or I can just go in at the 10k intervals and get the free oil change service?

Just curious if it is ok to reset the CBS when doing a DIY oil change.

No I don't know for sure if the SAs go off on the CBS system for the free services or just go by the odometer.

However, I believe they probably go by the CBS system.

My limited experience with BMW CBS servicing is I had the M2 oil/filter service done at around 600 miles. I specifically asked that the CBS system not be reset. IIRC the running in service notice popped about 100 miles before the nominal 1200 miles. Had this done at 1204 miles. (Just a coincidence it got done at so close to "1200" miles.)

With my MINI JCW after I had several out of schedule oil/filter services done (at my own expense) and for each one did not have the CBS reset the CBS finally popped up a message about a due CBS service and it was at less than 10k miles, at 9K miles.

So the takeaway I get is one can't always depend upon the CBS service falling due at 10K miles.

Thus I would advise you service the car as you see fit but do not reset the CBS system. When it does say a service is due book the car in for this service. In my case with my M2 (and the MINI) CBS services are free.

[Lagunatic]

How long (e.g., months) is synthetic oil good for? I might be only putting on 5,000 miles a year so wondering if I should do every 5,000 miles or 12 months? Or 6 months? Thanks!

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by Lagunatic

How long (e.g., months) is synthetic oil good for? I might be only putting on 5,000 miles a year so wondering if I should do every 5,000 miles or 12 months? Or 6 months? Thanks!

Checked my M2 owners manual. All I could find is that the oil/filter services are flagged by the CBS (condition based service) system.

If you only drive 5K miles per year the CBS will flag a service at the 12 month mark. Maybe.

The owners manual mentions a maintenance booklet but I didn't see one in my car's glove box.

You can always stop in and ask your local BMW dealer service department what BMW calls for.

Or, as has been my habit now I no longer drive so many miles that oil changes came several times a year I like to change the oil/filter before winter and then again come spring.

Added: But if I decide to do this with my M2/230i I will not have the CBS system reset but let it continue to run and when it decides a service is ready have the service done. In part because these services are free but there are other items that get serviced besides oil/filter.

However I have observed with both my M2 and 230i oil temperature is kept at 212F or higher. (This even with ambient temperatures in the single digits!)

Running the oil at 212F+ helps keep water out of the oil and prolongs the oil's life due to less contamination/acid formation. This also works to reduce sludge build up. Thus the oil might (might...) be good for one year. (Seem to recall Porsche called for 1 year oil changes if one didn't drive enough miles (10K IIRC) to trigger an oil change on miles. But Dodge called for 6 month oil changes if one didn't drive 6K miles per year. For both my Porsche cars and my Dodge cars I changed the oil every 5K miles or in the case of my Dodges which didn't get driven that much every 6 months.)

But I think you should go to BMW for what on time servicing BMW calls for.

[Dinosoar]

Oil also gets dirty too, it's not just how good quality (full synthetic for sure) it is. I say, if you want to keep a car a long time, and you can afford it, as much as possible but not any more frequent than 2000 miles, IMO. If you're putting very low miles on where you don't reach 5000 a year, then I'd change it each year regardless, if not every six months. Engines love good, clean oil. I understand direct injection engines produce more soot in the combustion too (check Engineering Explained)...makes it almost black within 3-4K miles.

For me, it's all on a continuum for my analysis. It's all driven by money, not miles. At some point you will waste some money, but your engine (and turbo!) will looove it!.

If you'll unload the car in a few years, and don't care to maintain it, do it the once-a-year freebee with BMW service and keep the money for the downpayment on your next car.

[Angmar]

I change my oil when the condition based service tells me to. I only get 12 MPG since factory so for me the message to schedule an oil change popped up around 5000 miles after the break in service. Not really worried about it and most people are not driving their car nearly as hard as I am on a daily basis.

[Lagunatic]

Originally Posted by Dinosoar

Oil also gets dirty too, it's not just how good quality (full synthetic for sure) it is. I say, if you want to keep a car a long time, and you can afford it, as much as possible but not any more frequent than 2000 miles, IMO. If you're putting very low miles on where you don't reach 5000 a year, then I'd change it each year regardless, if not every six months. Engines love good, clean oil. I understand direct injection engines produce more soot in the combustion too (check Engineering Explained)...makes it almost black within 3-4K miles.

For me, it's all on a continuum for my analysis. It's all driven by money, not miles. At some point you will waste some money, but your engine (and turbo!) will looove it!.

If you'll unload the car in a few years, and don't care to maintain it, do it the once-a-year freebee with BMW service and keep the money for the downpayment on your next car.

Thanks I think annual or 5k miles makes sense.

[Fastfwd]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

My limited experience with BMW CBS servicing is I had the M2 oil/filter service done at around 600 miles. I specifically asked that the CBS system not be reset. IIRC the running in service notice popped about 100 miles before the nominal 1200 miles. Had this done at 1204 miles. (Just a coincidence it got done at so close to "1200" miles.)

I just went with the recommended break-in service at 1,200 miles. Maybe I should have done a bit more homework on this, but I just caught this Youtube channel with this self proclaimed oil geek and he also says that a new engine should have its oil changed at around 500 miles. He poured an extra quart through the engine to help clean it out too.

He was saying that most of your engine wear occurs in the first miles you put on a car. Over the entire life of the vehicle those are the most critical.

I believe he also changed it again well before the normal interval. He was having samples tested to see what decline there was in metals in the oil, etc. The second interval was under 2k miles too.

Is it too late at 2,700 miles to do another oil change? I mean, for whatever it costs it might be worth it to try to make sure it's as clean as it can be, huh?

I've already driven the car pretty hard after the break-in service. I couldn't see me waiting half a year before I enjoyed it.

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by Fastfwd

I just went with the recommended break-in service at 1,200 miles. Maybe I should have done a bit more homework on this, but I just caught this Youtube channel with this self proclaimed oil geek and he also says that a new engine should have its oil changed at around 500 miles. He poured an extra quart through the engine to help clean it out too.

He was saying that most of your engine wear occurs in the first miles you put on a car. Over the entire life of the vehicle those are the most critical.

I believe he also changed it again well before the normal interval. He was having samples tested to see what decline there was in metals in the oil, etc. The second interval was under 2k miles too.

Is it too late at 2,700 miles to do another oil change? I mean, for whatever it costs it might be worth it to try to make sure it's as clean as it can be, huh?

I've already driven the car pretty hard after the break-in service. I couldn't see me waiting half a year before I enjoyed it.

There is some wear in the first XXX miles to be sure. This is break in. Might add this wear is not metal to metal contact -- with one possible exception -- but the loosening of metal particles from machined surfaced.

This wants to occur over time. As this occurs engine friction decreases and the risk of oil break down and metal to metal wear occurring is reduced.

(The one possible exception is in some engines -- at least those with cast iron cylinders -- is the surface finish of the cylinders is very coarse. A very pronounced 45 deg. cross hatch pattern is honed into the cylinder walls. This cross hatch is such a finger nail dragged across it will abrade the finger nail like a finger nail file.) This surface finish is designed to briefly cause some wear of the rings so they quickly conform to the cylinder and produce a good seal during combustion and at other times. The cylinder walls experience a bit of wear too but not much. The cross hatch pattern remains and provides tiny spaces for oil molecules to collect which then work to prevent piston/ring/cylinder wall wear. But this ring wear -- ring seating -- takes place very quickly. I've observed a number of rebuilt engines upon their first post rebuild start and the rings seat within just a minute or so.)

Over the years I have changed the oil in a new engine at sometimes 600 miles -- 1/2 half the nominal break in miles. Did this for my M2. And more recently for my 2024 230i.

Is this early oil change necessary?

Based on the fact the vast majority of owners wait until the CBS says an oil change is due and the engines don't appear to manifest any issues in any significant numbers the "evidence" suggests *no*.

But I'm old school and I like to do this because it was what I was advised to do by professional motorcycle and automobile mechanics.

Oh, when I had my 230i in for an early oil/filter service I supplied two oil sample kits and requested the tech obtain a proper sample of the oil being drained from the engine and a sample of the oil he was going to use to refill the engine. I sent these samples out for analysis.

PDFs of the results of the analysis are attached.

Oil1 is the analysis of a virgin sample of oil. BMW 0w20.

Oil2 is the analysis of the factory fill oil with 624 miles on it.

One can see some wear metal presence in the oil.

Another take away is the low level of Magnesium in the factory fill oil compared to the virgin oil. I initially believed this was due to the magnesium glomming on to particulate matter then being captured by the filter.

But someone offered up that magnesium can be abrasive and the factory fill oil has a low magnesium content because of this. Seems plausible because of the new engine with its tighter clearances. Once broken in then magnesium can be present in sufficient quantity to provide the benefit desired from it.

Yet another take away is the decline in the 100C viscosity: Virgin oil: 8.577; factory fill oil: 7.373.

Virgin oil molybdenum: 68 (ppm); factory fill oil: 504. Moly is antiwear additive. Its elevated presence in the factory fill oil is understandable. To help guard against *undesirable* metal to metal contact.

As an aside when rebuilding engines the cam maker supplied a can of special lube (grease) to during assembly apply to the cam lobes and lifter faces/rocker arm pads to provide extra lubrication at these critical points during the first start. Due to the very black color I suspect the grease had molybdenum in it.

(FWIW, Porsche techs recommended SWEPCO 502 Oil Improver -- which has a load of molybdenum (200ppm) -- be added to the Porsche engine oil every oil/filter service. One reason was it worked to lower the "ticking" so many owners complained about. I used SWEPCO a few times and it maybe quieted the engine some (Boxster and Turbo engines) but I found that when the engine got ticky it was as the miles on the oil closed in on 5K miles. I took the increase in ticking as yet another sign the oil was due to be changed.)

As for your question about another oil change at 2700 miles (this following the break in service oil change at 1200 miles) it is up to you.

With my M2 I had the oil changed (on my dime and with the CBS not reset!) at 624 miles. Then the break in service done at 1204 miles and the CBS reset. The next oil change (again on my dime and with the CBS not reset) was done at 4833 miles. This was done late last September before winter set in. It has been my SOP to at least change the oil before winter then again in the spring. With cars that have a CBS system this is still my SOP although because the CBS is almost certainly not flagging a service is due I pay for this service and ask the CBS not be reset. I will of course have the car in when the CBS says it is due as with my M2 (and 230i) the CBS services are free of charge. And having these done when they are due (according to the CBS) I believe avoid any issues if a warranty claim had to be filed due to an engine problem.

[Fastfwd]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

There is some wear in the first XXX miles to be sure. This is break in. Might add this wear is not metal to metal contact -- with one possible exception -- but the loosening of metal particles from machined surfaced.

This wants to occur over time. As this occurs engine friction decreases and the risk of oil break down and metal to metal wear occurring is reduced.

(The one possible exception is in some engines -- at least those with cast iron cylinders -- is the surface finish of the cylinders is very coarse. A very pronounced 45 deg. cross hatch pattern is honed into the cylinder walls. This cross hatch is such a finger nail dragged across it will abrade the finger nail like a finger nail file.) This surface finish is designed to briefly cause some wear of the rings so they quickly conform to the cylinder and produce a good seal during combustion and at other times. The cylinder walls experience a bit of wear too but not much. The cross hatch pattern remains and provides tiny spaces for oil molecules to collect which then work to prevent piston/ring/cylinder wall wear. But this ring wear -- ring seating -- takes place very quickly. I've observed a number of rebuilt engines upon their first post rebuild start and the rings seat within just a minute or so.)

Over the years I have changed the oil in a new engine at sometimes 600 miles -- 1/2 half the nominal break in miles. Did this for my M2. And more recently for my 2024 230i.

Is this early oil change necessary?

Based on the fact the vast majority of owners wait until the CBS says an oil change is due and the engines don't appear to manifest any issues in any significant numbers the "evidence" suggests *no*.

But I'm old school and I like to do this because it was what I was advised to do by professional motorcycle and automobile mechanics.

Oh, when I had my 230i in for an early oil/filter service I supplied two oil sample kits and requested the tech obtain a proper sample of the oil being drained from the engine and a sample of the oil he was going to use to refill the engine. I sent these samples out for analysis.

PDFs of the results of the analysis are attached.

Oil1 is the analysis of a virgin sample of oil. BMW 0w20.

Oil2 is the analysis of the factory fill oil with 624 miles on it.

One can see some wear metal presence in the oil.

Another take away is the low level of Magnesium in the factory fill oil compared to the virgin oil. I initially believed this was due to the magnesium glomming on to particulate matter then being captured by the filter.

But someone offered up that magnesium can be abrasive and the factory fill oil has a low magnesium content because of this. Seems plausible because of the new engine with its tighter clearances. Once broken in then magnesium can be present in sufficient quantity to provide the benefit desired from it.

Yet another take away is the decline in the 100C viscosity: Virgin oil: 8.577; factory fill oil: 7.373.

Virgin oil molybdenum: 68 (ppm); factory fill oil: 504. Moly is antiwear additive. Its elevated presence in the factory fill oil is understandable. To help guard against *undesirable* metal to metal contact.

As an aside when rebuilding engines the cam maker supplied a can of special lube (grease) to during assembly apply to the cam lobes and lifter faces/rocker arm pads to provide extra lubrication at these critical points during the first start. Due to the very black color I suspect the grease had molybdenum in it.

(FWIW, Porsche techs recommended SWEPCO 502 Oil Improver -- which has a load of molybdenum (200ppm) -- be added to the Porsche engine oil every oil/filter service. One reason was it worked to lower the "ticking" so many owners complained about. I used SWEPCO a few times and it maybe quieted the engine some (Boxster and Turbo engines) but I found that when the engine got ticky it was as the miles on the oil closed in on 5K miles. I took the increase in ticking as yet another sign the oil was due to be changed.)

As for your question about another oil change at 2700 miles (this following the break in service oil change at 1200 miles) it is up to you.

With my M2 I had the oil changed (on my dime and with the CBS not reset!) at 624 miles. Then the break in service done at 1204 miles and the CBS reset. The next oil change (again on my dime and with the CBS not reset) was done at 4833 miles. This was done late last September before winter set in. It has been my SOP to at least change the oil before winter then again in the spring. With cars that have a CBS system this is still my SOP although because the CBS is almost certainly not flagging a service is due I pay for this service and ask the CBS not be reset. I will of course have the car in when the CBS says it is due as with my M2 (and 230i) the CBS services are free of charge. And having these done when they are due (according to the CBS) I believe avoid any issues if a warranty claim had to be filed due to an engine problem.

Thanks for the reply! Not sure if I'm still following the particulars of these additive packages, etc. but your insight may raise question if the factory oil fill is specifically formulated to best serve the engine through those first break-in miles vs whatever off the shelf oil you might purchase from BMW or otherwise. I imagine it's a guessing game if that formulation benefits the engine more than getting that metal out of the engine ASAP.

I may or may not do an early oil change. In the least this may be no more than a 3k mile change. I haven't yet even seen any instruction on how to tackle this DIY.

Don't laugh, but I was searching for the dipstick after I got my break-in service performed just to double check their work. Ford technicians apparently famously weren't filling the Coyote engines fully when the oil capacity increased to the 10 quarts it holds.

Another tale of how reading the owner's manual front to back is probably the best practice. I still haven't to be honest. I usually just keep it handy for reference. The M may deserve a little better effort.