[Pack19]

hi all,

There is a topic I have been wanting to post about. It is the MT feel for the FL5 compared to the G87. I love how smooth the FL5 is on traffic, as if you could not tell what it is capable of doing on track. The clutch release is linear and it is impossible to miss the spot where traction begins. On my F87 M2C, however, it seems the gearbox hates stop and go traffic, once you gain speed on the upper gears the feeling of the clutch for fast changes is fantastic. However, as I said on stop and go traffic clutch engagement is clunky and I cant help compare both cars in my head and wonder if the new generation is better.

I have not driven many other manual sports cars, lucky to have driven a Xbow (completely different animal), Miata, M3, 370z and F Type.

I wanted to ask to those of you who own or have driven ferrari, porsche gt or the new G87 (Manual of course): how does the clutch engagement and gear feel compare?

I am very curious to drive the new G87 and the manual gt3 but unless you buy then it will be impossible where I live. Thank you all for chiming in!

[SmokeyandtheBandit]

I was worried too, coming from a 6 speed ZL1 1LE which has one of the best drivetrains out imo sub super cars. I was pleasantly surprised with the shifter feel and clutch engagement. It is not GT3 good by any means. The GT3 is much more mechanical/tight/bolt action like. I would put it on par with my STI’s with factory SSK. I’m very please with it so far. Just picked mine up this past Wednesday.

[fzr100098]

Originally Posted by SmokeyandtheBandit

It is not GT3 good by any means. The GT3 is much more mechanical/tight/bolt action like.

This is why modern manual synchro transmissions don't move the needle for me - I'm too picky and they are designed more for comfort/rubbery feel

S2000 was pretty good

[NewToM]

Originally Posted by SmokeyandtheBandit

I was worried too, coming from a 6 speed ZL1 1LE which has one of the best drivetrains out imo sub super cars. I was pleasantly surprised with the shifter feel and clutch engagement. It is not GT3 good by any means. The GT3 is much more mechanical/tight/bolt action like. I would put it on par with my STI’s with factory SSK. I’m very please with it so far. Just picked mine up this past Wednesday.
Attachment 3563109

That wheel is nice….

[BradMX5]

Originally Posted by fzr100098

This is why modern manual synchro transmissions don't move the needle for me - I'm too picky and they are designed more for comfort/rubbery feel

S2000 was pretty good

The rubbery feel seems to be resolved with a SSK so I have some hope coming from a Miata that it won't be terrible if I were to go that route.

[two_three_two]

i have driven (but do not own) an ITS. the gearbox is awesome. i could not wrap my head around giving up RWD, ~150 hp and ~100 lb ft (probably a lot more, but as advertised), nicer interior, on road & on track pace, etc. for a car circa the same price.

G87 gearbox is good but not transcendental by any means. if gearbox feel is weighted very heavily in your driver engagement scoring, you may prefer the honda overall. they are both very, very fun on the street.

[sebaflex]

Honestly it is nowhere near as bad as some people make it out to be. A short shifter upgrade helps make it even better.

I definitely enjoy it and wouldn't have the car without it.

[DrJLag420]

It’s okay. But no P-Car feel. No Miata feel. My first M-car manny. I’d say it’s a bit ‘rubbery’. But at least they offered the manny in the G87. So that’s pretty cool for driver engagement. I’d say it’s like my OL MK4 .:R32 but with a lot more power😜. I won’t be modifying it. I have plenty of cars with a better feel. It’s cool. Buy it and modify it. If you no likey, modify or trade. These threads are kinda trying. But we can post to see what we can say…I’m thinking going ZF on my next M2 but I have so many cars it’s cool. Drive what you love and get er done.

Cheers!

[x622]

I would say I've driven most manual german, japanese and american manual cars.


My g87 ranks among the least enjoyable manual car I've ever owned with the CDV delete, clutch spacer and CAE shifter. I've tried the rouge engineering as well. The throws are very notchy, and the clutch engagement still feels mediocre. I've driven other G87s and they don't feel quite as bad but still not great, and there's no adjustment to be made for my transmission that I can see. My f80 felt fine. All my other manual BMWs felt fine.

I would of rather got the ZF, as sacrilegious as that sounds. If you wanna drive a stick sure fine but make it a good one.

[Bumpinjeep]

I've had my G87 for over a year and a half. The manual is excellent. Direct, comfortable, easy to operate, easy to shift slow, easy to shift fast. The clutch is a joy as well. Very easy in traffic and when driving spirited, it's simply sublime.
I have no clue what other people are complaining about, I think it's more parroting than anything. Just something to say, even if it's simply not true.

My other manual cars are F87C, F80, 350Z, have driven just about every Porsche and Audi with a manual (used to work at a Porsche/Jag/Audi dealer a long, long, time ago).

If you are a car enthusiast, get the manual and enjoy every second behind the wheel.

[fanofbmwe46]

My G87 manual feels better than the G80 manual I had but not quite as good as the 718 Cayman manual I had.

[Squidget]

Personally I think it's fine. It lacks the notchyness of an S2000, but it's precise and you aren't gonna ever miss your gates. The high clutch point drives some people bonkers, but it's never bothered me.

I think if you care about the EFFECTIVENESS of the MT, it's great. It's not gonna impede your driving. Whether it suits your TASTE, I can't say.

In other words, if you were ok with previous BMW MTs, you'll be OK here. If you hated previous BMW MTs, it's pretty much the same it's always been for the last 15 years.

[beren]

I have owned several Porsches - a 1988 911 and a 2016 Boxster, both manual. I have also owned a 1976 2002, and a 2006 328i - also both manual. Now I have a 2024 M2. I think there is a distinct difference. Porsches are track cars adapted to the street and BMW M's are street cars adapted to the track.

To me the main difference in the cars is the gear ratios and when shifting should be done. Porsches have long gear ratios to reduce shifting. BWMs have shorter ratios that require faster shifting in the lower gears. At least that's the way I look at it. You can add in differences in engagement zones and throws and stuff, but the main difference in my mind is understanding the philosophy of the car that powers the driving experience.

Or maybe I have had just too much bourbon tonight. Both cars are great. Having come from Porsche to BMW in my daily driver (2024 M2) I do admit I love this car, but I also still struggle with getting the shifting down right.

beren

[minn19]

I to have driven many of the cars people have discussed here. Same as two_three_two, I almost got an ITS because the shifter feels so much better, plus some practicality reasons. I also couldn’t get over it being FWD either and passed on it.

I have also owned the following manual cars, ZL1 1LE, F80, Cayman GTS 4.0, GT350 and a 992.1 GTS before my manual M2 and driven a ton of other ones.

A previous poster in this thread that said a lot of us are just parroting everyone else is quite wrong. For me the Cayman 6MT was easily the best I’ve ever experienced, followed by the ZL1 1LE which was probably tied with the GT 350.

My previous F80 and G87 M2 feel exactly alike. Are they terrible? No, but you can tell BMW hasn’t put any development into them for decades. If you’ve driven and got used to other manuals that are good to great, you can tell a huge difference. I’m hoping the Roque Engineering SSK kit plus Redline fluid will help. I remember switching to Redline fluid in my past F80 and ZL1 1LE, that really helped especially with cold weather 1-2 shifts.

All of them have their issues though. The CGTS 4.0 would grind into second at times unless you paused during the shift (a well known issue). GM has the stupid skip/lockout 2nd for MPG reasons, because that’s why you buy a ZL1 My main problem with the G87 manual is rev hang in certain situations. I like to rev out to 4K or so in sport mode and shift. It feels like the rev hang is the worst here and I have to pause for over a second for my 1-2 then 2-3 shift. If I shift it under 3k or close to redline, I don’t notice it as much. I also don’t notice it nearly as much in comfort, but who likes driving their M2 around in comfort all the time? IMO, it almost needs auto rev match for upshifts as well as downshifts.

Any way, all this being said, if you want a manual, get the manual. Even with these issues, the overall M2 package is excellent. But, I’d forgot about Porsche GT cars or Ferrari, it isn’t even on par with regular cars today. The other most disappointing one for me is VWs GTI or Golf R.

[RandomBro]

I had an ITS and my G87 at the SAME time. Stock for stock ITS shits on the G87 shifter, no contest.

G87 with the rogue engineering full kit + CDV delete would be on par with the ITS. Maybe slightly better due to shorter shifts.

[garageoverflow]

Curious if the 2025 manual is any different. A few people have posted that the manual is great, but it would be awesome to hear from someone that has driven both (still guessing it is identical)

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by garageoverflow

Curious if the 2025 manual is any different. A few people have posted that the manual is great, but it would be awesome to hear from someone that has driven both (still guessing it is identical)

I would be EXTREMELY surprised if there's any changes to the MT during the G87 lifecycle. Wouldn't make any sense, the MT is barely worth making at all (business-wise), there's no way they are investing R&D into it. Very IMO of course.

So until I hear otherwise, I'm assuming that it's the same and always will be until it's gone for good.

Edit: FWIW, If I had to reach, I guess it is plausible that the changes for the Supra/Z4 gets backported into the G87, I guess? Still seems unlikely, but possible?

[fanofbmwe46]

Originally Posted by Squidget

I would be EXTREMELY surprised if there's any changes to the MT during the G87 lifecycle. Wouldn't make any sense, the MT is barely worth making at all (business-wise), there's no way they are investing R&D into it. Very IMO of course.

So until I hear otherwise, I'm assuming that it's the same and always will be until it's gone for good.

Edit: FWIW, If I had to reach, I guess it is plausible that the changes for the Supra/Z4 gets backported into the G87, I guess? Still seems unlikely, but possible?

After driving my 3k mile G80 MT for 2hrs and then immediately driving my 2025 G87 MT for 2hrs, I can tell you there definitely feels like a difference. I wonder if some componentry was updated for 2025 from the z4 M40 revised manual

[x622]

I would love if you guys who like the manual in the G87 would drive my car. Maybe I just got a shit one.

[KR36]

Originally Posted by SmokeyandtheBandit

I was worried too, coming from a 6 speed ZL1 1LE which has one of the best drivetrains out imo sub super cars. I was pleasantly surprised with the shifter feel and clutch engagement. It is not GT3 good by any means. The GT3 is much more mechanical/tight/bolt action like. I would put it on par with my STI’s with factory SSK. I’m very please with it so far. Just picked mine up this past Wednesday.
Attachment 3563109

24 or 25? i like the steering wheel

[RandomBro]

Originally Posted by x622

I would love if you guys who like the manual in the G87 would drive my car. Maybe I just got a shit one.

What exactly seems to be wrong with yours?

[e92_enthusiast_1]

Been DDing my e92 N54 MT for 11yrs and is all I know. If the G87 shifts feels the same I wouldn't be that disappointed. Ignorance is bliss ig.