[OneTwo3]

Given how BMW often quotes much lower horsepower than the cars actually deliver, do you think this new HP bump is legit? Or are they just giving us a more accurate number now without actually changing the tune?

I saw a YouTube video where someone put a stock G87 on the dyno, and it read 476 HP to the wheels! That's wild because it means the car is pushing over 500 HP at the crank.

Either way, I'm curious about your thoughts on BMW's reported horsepower increases.

[BroDoze]

It’s legit for the 1,000th time. Just like when they bump the G80/G82.

[Bret]

Originally Posted by OneTwo3

I saw a YouTube video where someone put a stock G87 on the dyno, and it read 476 HP to the wheels!

When someone puts a 2025 M2 on that same Dyno and it reads 496 HP to the wheels, we'll know for sure.

[JMcLellan]

There is documentation from BMW that someone posted on a thread here showing that the torque curve is extended out a few hundred RPM's resulting in a peak horsepower increase.

[mike@x-ph.com]

its legit

[two_three_two]

things the G87 definitely needs: analog gauges, a hood on the screen, less glitchy OS, a touch more headroom in the rear.

things the G87 probably doesnt need: 20 more hp and 43 lb ft

but either way, its legit and not a paper gain.

[LRSD]

After sitting in a couple of 2025 M-3’s.
I wish they would increase the choice of colors in the interior. Similar to the individual color offerings on the 2025 M2 exterior paint.
Our BMW dealership in Seattle has close to 10 2024 M2’s for sale.
It boggles my mind that there was that many!
I am so happy that my BMW dealership in Fife WA was able to get me an individual color allocation on a 2025 immediately.
It was perfect timing. I was so frustrated trying to get a Toyota Supra with a manual since they came out.
Can’t wait for Twight Purple!
Thanks to BMW for giving us more choices! For me it’s worth the extra cost.

[reallymarkedup]

Originally Posted by two_three_two

things the G87 definitely needs: analog gauges, a hood on the screen, less glitchy OS, a touch more headroom in the rear.

Eh, I disagree on the headroom. You buy the M2 knowing it's a two seater with extra cargo space behind the front seats.

I don't know that it needs a hood either but it wouldn't hurt. Surprisingly Hyundai did this in the Elantra N. Everything else about that car looks hideous, but the hood over the gauge cluster (uh...ipad cluster?) looks pretty good.

[fzr100098]

Carbon roof fixes headroom issue

[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by reallymarkedup

Eh, I disagree on the headroom. You buy the M2 knowing it's a two seater with extra cargo space behind the front seats.

I don't know that it needs a hood either but it wouldn't hurt. Surprisingly Hyundai did this in the Elantra N. Everything else about that car looks hideous, but the hood over the gauge cluster (uh...ipad cluster?) looks pretty good.

i mean thats fair. for my personal usecase i'd like a little more headroom in the rear but i just stick my short people back there anyway (or make someone else drive).

i'll say it really could use a gauge hood if they insist on doing full digital gauges- the glare can be pretty bad sometimes.

i guess my point was that the marginal power gains don't, or shouldn't, move the needle in the drive experience category for me personally.

in reality these are nits and theres not a ton they could realistically do to the car other than lower the curb weight that would have much of an impact on driving pleasure/usability for me. a 4 door M2 or shooting brake body style would be amazing but i'm trying to stay grounded in this dimension lol.

[Ronin76]

Originally Posted by LRSD

After sitting in a couple of 2025 M-3’s.
I wish they would increase the choice of colors in the interior. Similar to the individual color offerings on the 2025 M2 exterior paint.
Our BMW dealership in Seattle has close to 10 2024 M2’s for sale.
It boggles my mind that there was that many!
I am so happy that my BMW dealership in Fife WA was able to get me an individual color allocation on a 2025 immediately.
It was perfect timing. I was so frustrated trying to get a Toyota Supra with a manual since they came out.
Can’t wait for Twight Purple!
Thanks to BMW for giving us more choices! For me it’s worth the extra cost.

God, if Twilight Purple looks like that I will be so happy.

[M_Power Rob]

Originally Posted by two_three_two

things the G87 definitely needs: analog gauges, a hood on the screen, less glitchy OS, a touch more headroom in the rear.

things the G87 probably doesnt need: 20 more hp and 43 lb ft

but either way, its legit and not a paper gain.

Agreed...it needs significantly more of each.

[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by M_Power Rob

Agreed...it needs significantly more of each.

its funny but also a valid point in a way, nothing short of another 100 hp/100 lb ft would probably even move the needle for me personally. at that point it would be terrifying on the roads up here though when driven past 4/10ths lol

[minn19]

Originally Posted by two_three_two

things the G87 definitely needs: analog gauges, a hood on the screen, less glitchy OS, a touch more headroom in the rear.

things the G87 probably doesnt need: 20 more hp and 43 lb ft

but either way, its legit and not a paper gain.

Does the 6MT get the torque bump too or just the auto?

[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by minn19

Does the 6MT get the torque bump too or just the auto?

just the auto. 6MT gets the HP, but not the TQ. I think the 6MT is already at BMW's internal "reliability limit" for TQ

[minn19]

Originally Posted by two_three_two

just the auto. 6MT gets the HP, but not the TQ. I think the 6MT is already at BMW's internal "reliability limit" for TQ

Thats what I thought, thanks. The extra 20 horses doesn't do much for me, but the torque bump would’ve been nice!

[BradMX5]

BMW should have upgraded the clutch to give us the added torque increase too.

[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by BradMX5

BMW should have upgraded the clutch to give us the added torque increase too.

they don't care. squeezing the manual take rate low enough to justify killing it would be a net positive to their business most likely.

[SeanJP]

Originally Posted by two_three_two

just the auto. 6MT gets the HP, but not the TQ. I think the 6MT is already at BMW's internal "reliability limit" for TQ

The only way to increase horsepower is to increase torque or RPM. It doesn’t necessarily have to be peak torque, but at peak HP RPM the torque has to be higher than it was before.

[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by SeanJP

The only way to increase horsepower is to increase torque or RPM. It doesn’t necessarily have to be peak torque, but at peak HP RPM the torque has to be higher than it was before.

i'm just quoting BMW here, but FWIW, the base M3 has had this state of tune since 2021. someone smarter than me will have the real answer.

[SeanJP]

Originally Posted by two_three_two

i'm just quoting BMW here, but FWIW, the base M3 has had this state of tune since 2021. someone smarter than me will have the real answer.

It could be that after peak torque is achieved, the downward slope (of the torque curve) flattens some. That would increase horsepower without increasing peak torque.

[fanofbmwe46]

Originally Posted by SeanJP

It could be that after peak torque is achieved, the downward slope (of the torque curve) flattens some. That would increase horsepower without increasing peak torque.

I like that… maybe just more torque throughout the powerband after peak