[OldButSmooth]

It has been made public in Australia that Porsche stopped taking orders for 718 Cayman and Boxster cars back in May as production has ceased. The announcement went on to advise the replacement cars would be EV driven.

It now appears only a handful of rear drive manual cars are left in our market such as the G87, Supra, Lotus Emira and various Ford Mustang products.

The day of affordable driver's cars may not be with us for too much longer. In the meantime, enjoy each drive in your G87 as it is an experience that will soon be forgotten in a future of EV's.

[Tenac]

Originally Posted by M2siast

Not sure.

The 718 may have gone out of production, because a new model is coming out. Same happened when the F87 was killed. Then the G87 came on.
I doubt the new Caymans and Boxsters will be EV only, they might just do what they're doing with the Macan, with both versions available.

And the 911 is coming out manual soon. Although that hardly classifies as "affordable", and not that I'd class the G87 as that myself.

The GR86 and Miata are still around no?

It's sad for sure but true no more ICE 718...

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a6...nd-production/

[Tenac]

Originally Posted by M2siast

I understand that, and that's what I said too, the 718 has had an 8 year run, it was expected to be phased out regardless.

Let's wait and see if the successor won't have an ICE version; I bet it will.

As my comparison with the F87 went, some folks bought the F87 CS as the "last manual", and then the G87 came up, with a manual... Things aren't over until they're over. And as exhibited by the new naturally aspirated Bugatti, there very much still is room for ICE vehicles in the world, especially sports cars. I would bet money the next Cayman/Boxster have ICE versions.

I would hope so too but keep in mind Porsche has announced already the Cayman line up will be full EV. We already know the 911 will start with the hybrid as well.

added just a couple from the Porsche announcement. Hope they back track on it though.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a6...dead-for-2025/
https://europe.autonews.com/automake...oduction-early

[Tenac]

Originally Posted by M2siast

True. We'll see, maybe sales (or lack thereof) may change their minds.

I think, much like they did with the 4 cylinder (which reduced the "emotion") in the 718, they may have always tried to save the 911 "halo". By going electric, by all means, it's almost like going 4 cylinder... Might as well remove the exhaust altogether.

But then again, they came back with the NA boxer engine for the GTS, GT4, Spyder... So not all is lost. Especially because they haven't designed a manual transmission electric yet. So the market may direct them that way, even if for certain models. So maybe the new Boxster and Cayman will be EVs, but their "GT" versions will not. Remains to be seen, that's my contention.

But it's not like I care much anyway, because I'm not really a customer of theirs. Just an observer of their demographic, and also of technology. Much like "AI replacing all humans", I disagree EVs will replace all vehicles.

Totally agree and don't forget even when production goes EV doesn't mean it can't come back to ICE. lol

[robopp]

Originally Posted by Tenac

I would hope so too but keep in mind Porsche has announced already the Cayman line up will be full EV. We already know the 911 will start with the hybrid as well.

added just a couple from the Porsche announcement. Hope they back track on it though.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a61534170/porsche-718-internal-combustion-dead-for-2025/
https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/porsche-ends-ice-macan-boxster-cayman-718-production-early

The 992.2 911 base is not hybrid.

[beren]

that's why I got an M2...I had a Boxster 2016 Black Edition, but no new cars...so M2 - hello. So far liking the change.

[Dave07997S]

For me it came down to an S650 Mustang or a G87. Has to be a manual and an ICE. The Mustang will be ICE at least until 2030, when is the G87 expected to be out of production?

[two_three_two]

the idea is to get you to upgrade to a 911. 718s and 911s actually have shockingly similar production costs; but a 911 obviously has way better margin. want a REAL porsche? be ready to fork over 120k+. porsche dealers are also going to really, really hate this as the ARPU is going to be great but the volume is going to be significantly less. my guess is the EV macan wont fare very well either.

[JABCAT]

There's always plenty of gently used models available. Don't know why everyone is always worried about the next thing, enjoy what you have.

[Tenac]

Originally Posted by robopp

The 992.2 911 base is not hybrid.

Yeah that is true, many of the 911 models are not Hybrid but they are starting to produce the 911 with a hybrid. I for wone think the world should have explored more heavily into hybrid instead of running to full EV but Tesla changed that for all. Now the ones that haven't changed coarse are all running to EV models. I'd only hope many offer an ICE version along side. We have all been seeing a decline in EV models and not to mention the second hand EV market almost doesn't exists they are becoming more like cell phones buy the new trade off the old for the trash can. Very low resale value in many of these EV's on the road today.

[Tenac]

Originally Posted by two_three_two

the idea is to get you to upgrade to a 911. 718s and 911s actually have shockingly similar production costs; but a 911 obviously has way better margin. want a REAL porsche? be ready to fork over 120k+. porsche dealers are also going to really, really hate this as the ARPU is going to be great but the volume is going to be significantly less. my guess is the EV macan wont fare very well either.

I can see this as being accurate for sure. I had old gen 911 and when the body started going FAT or GT style with weight and size I dabbled into 718. Hell I think my 718 4.0 is closer to what I knew the 911 as being than the current model anyway. lol Sure they are detuned and don't get the love as the 911. Cost less too!!

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by Dave07997S

For me it came down to an S650 Mustang or a G87. Has to be a manual and an ICE. The Mustang will be ICE at least until 2030, when is the G87 expected to be out of production?

G87 is expected to be around until about 2030.

It will be the last of the CLAR platform ICE only cars.

[robopp]

Originally Posted by Tenac

Yeah that is true, many of the 911 models are not Hybrid but they are starting to produce the 911 with a hybrid. I for wone think the world should have explored more heavily into hybrid instead of running to full EV but Tesla changed that for all. Now the ones that haven't changed coarse are all running to EV models. I'd only hope many offer an ICE version along side. We have all been seeing a decline in EV models and not to mention the second hand EV market almost doesn't exists they are becoming more like cell phones buy the new trade off the old for the trash can. Very low resale value in many of these EV's on the road today.

Only two models have been announced and the GTS hydrization is very well thought out and executed IMO - gains 150lbs with an eturbo and lambda 1 at all throttle ranges. None of this M5 just add massive batteries and electric motors bs. If Porsche can drop the additional electric motor and pdk and add a manual. OMG!

[robopp]

Originally Posted by Tenac

I can see this as being accurate for sure. I had old gen 911 and when the body started going FAT or GT style with weight and size I dabbled into 718. Hell I think my 718 4.0 is closer to what I knew the 911 as being than the current model anyway. lol Sure they are detuned and don't get the love as the 911. Cost less too!!

My 992.1 Carrera T weighs 3250lbs. That’s the same as a 1980 911. Porsche gets the you don’t need to throw horsepower at a vehicle, just control its weight concept.

[OldButSmooth]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

G87 is expected to be around until about 2030.

It will be the last of the CLAR platform ICE only cars.

`You don't know what you got until it is gone' (Big Yellow Taxi, Joni Mitchell 1970).

[robopp]

Originally Posted by M2siast

A 1980 911 weighs less than 2,600lbs. 700lbs is a big difference.
It is impossible for modern cars to weigh what old cars weigh, and that’s a good thing. No one wants to be in an 80s shitbox on the street. One hit and you’re dead in an 80s car, while your survival chance is super high in a modern car.

You’re correct. I’m at my beach house right now, but I have an old motor trend article where an older 911 weighs 3200lbs. I was super surprised. I’m back tomorrow and I’ll share that article with the group then.

[OldButSmooth]

Originally Posted by robopp

My 992.1 Carrera T weighs 3250lbs. That’s the same as a 1980 911. Porsche gets the you don’t need to throw horsepower at a vehicle, just control its weight concept.

In a future of EV performance cars weighing 5500lbs, our G87's will be remembered as a relative light weight.

[robopp]

Originally Posted by M2siast

Gotcha, they might have confused it with the gross weight.
The 992 gross weight is 4,200lbs to compare.

I was off by a decade and a half. 3100lbs for a 1995 911 Carrera. Impressive that Porsche was able to only increase the weight by 150lbs with all the additional safety features they had to add plus my 992 is significantly bigger! 167.7x68.3x51.8 vs 177.9x72.9x50.9



Anyways, I’m a huge fan of the M2 since I continue to post and lurk here and can’t wait to buy one. I have a neighbor that has a Brooklyn grey with yellow drls and lowered and it’s sinister!

[OldButSmooth]

Originally Posted by M2siast

Indeed remarkable. The 4S of the same era is 3,275 lbs.
Good stuff.

I attended a Coffee and Car event two weeks back and there were a small number of 911's from that era. Like the rest of us would I had a good look at these cars and was surprised as to how small they now appear. Cars like humans have definitely gotten bigger over the past few decades and this is not necessarily a good thing.

[OldButSmooth]

Originally Posted by M2siast

Agreed it’s not a good thing, but a great thing in general.
Of course we don’t like how heavier they are and how harder it is to maneuver them and such. But as I mentioned before, it’s a great thing.

Many people say “a college kid should drive a 1995 Civic”. I think that’s a bad idea, because it’s a shitbox. I’d rather a kid drive in a 216i, which we don’t get (if they even exist, or a 316i or something). “Bloated” cars, gutless, safe.

No doubt cars have become much heavier, the trade-off is they are much safer, hence, serious collisions are far more survivable for driver and occupants. On another thought, how much safer would our roads be if people considered purchasing something smaller than the XXL SUV and trucks that currently litter our suburban streets.

[Bret]

Originally Posted by OldButSmooth

No doubt cars have become much heavier, the trade-off is they are much safer, hence, serious collisions are fare more survivable for driver and occupants. On another thought, how much safer would our roads be if people considered purchasing something smaller than the XXL SUV and trucks that currently litter our suburban streets.

They would be less safe. All else being equal, the bigger the vehicle the safer it is because there's more crap to crumple before the damage gets to a human. If you don't like an XXL SUV or a truck, then don't buy one. That's how things work in a free society. I don't care for them, but don't look at them as trash just like I don't look at other cars that I don't care for as trash. They're just a reminder of how fine my taste in cars is.

[Bret]

Originally Posted by M2siast

For sake of entertainment bantering, care to share the evidence of how a truck is safer than a car?

Read what I wrote. I made a general statement about size with all else being equal. I didn't say that a truck is safer than an equivalent sized car. I will say that a large truck is safer than a small truck. A large SUV is typically safer than a subcompact car.

I don't get the love of trucks when 98% of the time they're not used to haul anything, and they drive like poop compared to most cars. That said, it doesn't bother me one bit that others like using them as daily drivers. 21 years ago when my wife was pregnant with our second son, I bought a Honda S2000. That really seemed to disturb a lot of people. It seems that I was supposed to buy a minivan because they're practical. While I agree that they're probably practical, I don't like the style and driving experience. I do like the driving experience of sports cars. Others have their reasons and that's ok with me too because it's their money. My wife likes the looks of SUV's (she doesn't intentionally go off-roading) with their minivan practicality, so that's what I buy her. I do like the fact that she's driving a safer than average vehicle around.