[JABCAT]

There's always a lot of debate about proper oil change intervals. I'm one who more often than not follows the manufacturer's recommended maintenance schedule and/or the vehicle's computer system telling me when it's time to perform services. I've owned 45 vehicles to-date, and save for a replacement LS1 in my WS6 Trans Am for a known oil burning issue, I've driven hundreds of thousands of trouble-free miles.

Here's the Blackstone analysis for my '23 M2 with oil changed following the CBS interval. Original in-service date was 8/25/23, 1,200 mi break-in service completed in Jan/'24 at ~1,150 mi. Oil was changed 8/21/24 with ~10,200 mi on the odometer. CBS alert said oil change due in about 500 mi at time of service.

As indicated on the report, there was about 9,100 mi on the oil at the time of the oil change. I drive exclusively in M1 or M2,
M1: all settings in Sport, transmission in D2. Traction control on.
M2: engine & chassis in Sport+, everything else in Sport. Transmission in D3, DSC off, traction control 50%.

I drive 500 mi each weekend (250 mi one way), interstate w/ACC set at 85 mph with maybe a few jaunts & hard accelerations a bit above that (gotta quickly pass that slower traffic). During the week I commute 28 mi round trip city driving. I've got a few mi stretch that is nice & curvy, so I hit M2 and do a little paddle shifting taking the 35 mph curves at around 65-70, if traffic allows. Between all that, the car sees some fun hard accelerations, freeway on-ramps, etc.

Take it for what it's worth.

[BroDoze]

Thanks for posting!

[chris719]

I would personally prefer to run higher HTHS LL-01 like M1 0W-40 or PP Euro 5W-40 in this engine. If you are going to run it this long I would also suggest you get TBN done also next time. Viscosity is almost 9 cSt which is a bit higher than many UOA we see on this oil, so there is perhaps a bit of oxidative thickening occurring.

[myaghi]

This was my report. Oil is BMW 5W30 and was run for 8000km.
The only problem was that I forgot to take a sample directly when was pouring from the engine and I took the sample from the the container which was used by my mechanic to collect. It was clean, but was used before to collect oil from other cars so it might be a little contaminated.
I don't know, I will send a sample next time when I will change the oil and see if there are some differences.

[Mike_H_]

Originally Posted by myaghi

might be a little contaminated.

Probably, but the UOA was still great, so worst case scenario, your pure results would be a little better.

[chris719]

I don’t really like the additive package of that oil. 5W30 is LL01 also not FE, so if you’re going to deviate then you should use an actual good LL01 oil like M1 0W-40 or PP Euro 5W-40, Motul XCess 5w-40 etc. It’s fine, don’t get me wrong, but I think there are better options for less money.

[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by chris719

I don’t really like the additive package of that oil. 5W30 is LL01 also not FE, so if you’re going to deviate then you should use an actual good LL01 oil like M1 0W-40 or PP Euro 5W-40, Motul XCess 5w-40 etc. It’s fine, don’t get me wrong, but I think there are better options for less money.

Just asking - both reports posted here, according to the company doing the analysis, are excellent, but we both should be using different oil?

[two_three_two]

convinced me to push my intervals to 7500 miles. thanks for the post.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by JABCAT

Just asking - both reports posted here, according to the company doing the analysis, are excellent, but we both should be using different oil?

UOA tells you barely anything about actual wear. A $30 ICP used oil analysis is not good enough to tell you much and used oil analysis is not good enough for the ASTM Sequence oil tests nor BMW’s own oil approval wear tests which require engine teardown or radionuclide tracer method. The company doing the analysis hires low wage technicians that very often incorrectly interpret numbers that are already almost meaningless if they aren’t horrible. Blackstone is also probably the worst lab in the US doing this analysis for consumers. They are frequently very far off on something as simple as kinematic viscosity measurements. You can read at bobistheoilguy.com and/or oil-club.de if you can read German.

You can see for yourself the “value” of wear metals in the method the samples are prepped by Blackstone with on the E92 forums where Blackstone will send a glowing report and there is grossly visible yellow metal in the sample because the analysis is blind to larger particle sizes. Not to mention the guys that have like 6 good UOA in a row and spin a bearing anyway.

If your UOA looks good it means little. If it looks bad then yes there’s a problem. That’s the only real value you can derive from wear metals in UOA at this level of service. I bet you could run some random 0W-20 API SP oil and get a similar UOA but I bet the teardown looks different after 50k miles.

[Mike_H_]

There's also a resource, "The Motor Oil Geek" on YouTube, Lake Speed, JR.

He's a Certified Lubrication Specialist and Oil Analyst who worked for Gibbs Racing, his father was a NASCAR driver.

Speed runs thorough and detailed testing of motor oils (he uses SPEEDiagnostix for UOA, a company he founded) and he clearly explains what everything means, what's important and why it's important.

Lake Speed Jr. explains UOA

[chris719]

Originally Posted by Mike_H_

There's also a resource, "The Motor Oil Geek" on YouTube, Lake Speed, JR.

He's a Certified Lubrication Specialist and Oil Analyst who worked for Gibbs Racing, his father was a NASCAR driver.

Speed runs thorough and detailed testing of motor oils (he uses SPEEDiagnostix for UOA, a company he founded) and he clearly explains what everything means, what's important and why it's important.

Lake Speed Jr. explains UOA

He’s good but he does try to push his UOA service a bit and in my opinion overstates the capabilities of wear metal analysis via UOA. I will say the lab he uses is better than Blackstone

[Mike_H_]

Originally Posted by chris719

He’s good but he does try to push his UOA service a bit and in my opinion overstates the capabilities of wear metal analysis via UOA. I will say the lab he uses is better than Blackstone

His videos are informative and credible, but he does heavily feature the lab in every video (I think it's his own lab - Lake Speed SPEEDiagnosix), the cost is pretty steep $100 for the full analysis he features in the videos, so a fresh oil sample test and 2 UOA in year for $300?

Nice info, but $300 also pays for the best oil / filter on a 3,000 mi OCI, do that and there shouldn't be any real worries about UOA.

He promotes 3 products / services, SPEEDiagnostix, Total Seal Piston Rings and he has some affiliation with Driven oils, as he was the formulator for some of their oils.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by Mike_H_

His videos are informative and credible, but he does heavily feature the lab in every video (I think it's his own lab - Lake Speed SPEEDiagnosix), the cost is pretty steep $100 for the full analysis he features in the videos, so a fresh oil sample test and 2 UOA in year for $300?

Nice info, but $300 also pays for the best oil / filter on a 3,000 mi OCI, do that and there shouldn't be any real worries about UOA.

He promotes 3 products / services, SPEEDiagnostix, Total Seal Piston Rings and he has some affiliation with Driven oils, as he was the formulator for some of their oils.

Yep those are his current or previous affiliations. I think he’s a good source still notwithstanding. His lab, I am guessing it’s Horizon or Polaris or another lab. SPEEDiagnostix is just a front end and interpretation I’m 90% sure unless he purchased around $300k of equipment and techs to do all of the tests.

[myaghi]

Originally Posted by chris719

I don’t really like the additive package of that oil. 5W30 is LL01 also not FE, so if you’re going to deviate then you should use an actual good LL01 oil like M1 0W-40 or PP Euro 5W-40, Motul XCess 5w-40 etc. It’s fine, don’t get me wrong, but I think there are better options for less money.

I have a service pack included, so BMW will make a free oil change when the car say and this is the oil they use. It's the main BMW dealer in the country. At half those interval I make an oil change myself but I use the same oil, as it does not makes sense the change it for about 8-10k km until the car goes to them for the included service.
The oil si BMW 5W30 LL-04

[chris719]

Originally Posted by myaghi

I have a service pack included, so BMW will make a free oil change when the car say and this is the oil they use. It's the main BMW dealer in the country. At half those interval I make an oil change myself but I use the same oil, as it does not makes sense the change it for about 8-10k km until the car goes to them for the included service.
The oil si BMW 5W30 LL-04

Oh, you are in Romania. Nevermind then, you will need ACEA C3 / LL-04 oil. If you are out of free service period I would recommend Ravenol VMP. It has a high 3.7 cP HTHS with only 11.9 cSt KV100.

[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by chris719

UOA tells you barely anything about actual wear. A $30 ICP used oil analysis is not good enough to tell you much and used oil analysis is not good enough for the ASTM Sequence oil tests nor BMW’s own oil approval wear tests which require engine teardown or radionuclide tracer method. The company doing the analysis hires low wage technicians that very often incorrectly interpret numbers that are already almost meaningless if they aren’t horrible. Blackstone is also probably the worst lab in the US doing this analysis for consumers. They are frequently very far off on something as simple as kinematic viscosity measurements. You can read at bobistheoilguy.com and/or oil-club.de if you can read German.

You can see for yourself the “value” of wear metals in the method the samples are prepped by Blackstone with on the E92 forums where Blackstone will send a glowing report and there is grossly visible yellow metal in the sample because the analysis is blind to larger particle sizes. Not to mention the guys that have like 6 good UOA in a row and spin a bearing anyway.

If your UOA looks good it means little. If it looks bad then yes there’s a problem. That’s the only real value you can derive from wear metals in UOA at this level of service. I bet you could run some random 0W-20 API SP oil and get a similar UOA but I bet the teardown looks different after 50k miles.

Interestingly enough Corvette owners, especially LS7 owners, swear by Blackstone reports as well as some very well-respected performance shops. Yet you say they're horrible and oil analysis reports mean nothing. Like I said in my OP, lots of opinions out there and people on the internet always seem to know more than the engineers who build these things : I'll keep maintaining my vehicles how I have the last 30 years by following the manufacturers' recommendations. Hasn't caused me issues yet

[chris719]

Originally Posted by JABCAT

Interestingly enough Corvette owners, especially LS7 owners, swear by Blackstone reports as well as some very well-respected performance shops. Yet you say they're horrible and oil analysis reports mean nothing. Like I said in my OP, lots of opinions out there and people on the internet always seem to know more than the engineers who build these things : I'll keep maintaining my vehicles how I have the last 30 years by following the manufacturers' recommendations. Hasn't caused me issues yet

I'm an engineer and just telling you the truth. You can believe the broscience if you want. I'm not deviating from BMW's recommendations as every oil I recommend is approved and covered under the Technically Appropriate Engine Oils section for this engine in BMW TIS. BTW, my father is also a chemist who contributed to the design of some of the analytical methods and equipment used (microwave digestion, ICP-MS, GC/MS) in oil analysis. You can educate yourself at bobistheoilguy.com (once you filter through the chaff) or oil-club.de or SAE journal papers and form your own opinion.

The manufacturer is rarely wrong, but M engines have a history of fatal flaws and we are at a unique point in automotive history where the automaker is under extreme pressure to reduce fuel consumption and emissions at any cost to achieve compliance. Again, I am simply recommending that people reach for the better of the technically allowable options.

[eugenebmw]

Originally Posted by myaghi

I have a service pack included, so BMW will make a free oil change when the car say and this is the oil they use. It's the main BMW dealer in the country. At half those interval I make an oil change myself but I use the same oil, as it does not makes sense the change it for about 8-10k km until the car goes to them for the included service.
The oil si BMW 5W30 LL-04

I did exactly what you do.

[gcmak]

Adding my most recent analysis from October. I have enough data now - with my use cases not changing - to make a decision to extend my change intervals to 12mo or 5K miles whichever comes first. The M2 mostly sees track duty (and the drives to and from the track).

If I were to purely street drive the track, for me personally, I'd be pretty comfortable with the 12mo or 10K mile interval (although I would probably do one analysis with that interval just to validate). With the oil cooling being so robust, even on 100F+ track days - the additives etc. are not breaking down.

I'm just another data point - everyone's results vary.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by gcmak

Adding my most recent analysis from October. I have enough data now - with my use cases not changing - to make a decision to extend my change intervals to 12mo or 5K miles whichever comes first. The M2 mostly sees track duty (and the drives to and from the track).

If I were to purely street drive the track, for me personally, I'd be pretty comfortable with the 12mo or 10K mile interval (although I would probably do one analysis with that interval just to validate). With the oil cooling being so robust, even on 100F+ track days - the additives etc. are not breaking down.

I'm just another data point - everyone's results vary.

I would really hesitate tracking an S58 with oil that nearly ends up as a 0W-20 and is a low HTHS A5/B5 30 to begin with. That's just my opinion. I might be ok with it on a B58 since the bearings are IROX coated, but these aren't. I'd also recommend you use Amsoil/OAI (Horizon) or Polaris next time since Blackstone sucks. They said you had 5.8% fuel on one sample yet the viscosity was virtually the same as every other sample... impossible. They don't measure fuel directly unlike the other labs, they just infer it based on flashpoint. Seems to me they screwed up the flashpoint measurement. The wear metals look ok to extend but without TBN, TAN, and oxidation you don't have a full picture.

[71dsp]

Originally Posted by chris719

I would personally prefer to run higher HTHS LL-01 like M1 0W-40 or PP Euro 5W-40 in this engine. If you are going to run it this long I would also suggest you get TBN done also next time. Viscosity is almost 9 cSt which is a bit higher than many UOA we see on this oil, so there is perhaps a bit of oxidative thickening occurring.

I read some of your posts and find the info pretty interesting. I've been using Blackstone, but recently gave Speediagnostix a try.

Here is Speediagnostix on the initial BMW fill with just under 1,200 miles on it (had the tech pull a sample during the break in service). I also sent a sample to Blackstone. You can see some numbers are very close, some are spot on, but there are a handful where there is a higher than expected difference.

I've been running Ravenol VST on my Golf R, and the UOAs have all been great on that oil, so I was considering that or Ravenol RUP for the BMW. Sent a VOA to Speediagnostix on both. He recommended the VST (I was planning to use RUP, which is quite a bit more expensive, and I had bought a bit of it ahead of time).

Would be interested in your feedback. Thanks!

[Mike_H_]

Originally Posted by 71dsp

I've been running Ravenol VST on my Golf R, and the UOAs have all been great on that oil, so I was considering that or Ravenol RUP for the BMW. Sent a VOA to Speediagnostix on both. He recommended the VST (I was planning to use RUP, which is quite a bit more expensive, and I had bought a bit of it ahead of time).

Calcium in turbocharged DI engines creates a risk of low-speed pre-ignition, that's probably why SPEEDiagnostix recommends the VST.